| Can aspies be truly bi-gendered? |
| Yes, even if aspergers is a defining contribution, any person who is female one day and male the next is bi-gendered! |
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89% |
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| No, it's just another aspie quirk |
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10% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 68 |
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Polkadot
Emu Egg
Joined: Jun 08, 2009
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: Transgendered, Bi-genderd and aspergers, answers please |
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After describing my feelings about my gender to an acqaintance I was told I am bi-gendered, and subsequently a weirdo. I'm not debating the bi-gender bit; I'll be the first to say some days I'm the way I was born (a girl) but some days I am extremely boyish - but to say I'm weird because of I must contest!  My question is: Is this what I term 'True Bi-gender', or is my aspie brain just incapable of moderating levels of femininity and masculinity at the same time and so instead does it in shifts? Does the term apply to all who feel they are female one day, then male another day, irrelevant of aspergers?
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exhausted
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 667
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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i don't know. but apparently i'm "bi-gendered" as well. maybe it's common among aspies and the "otherly wired" in general. (NLD with many aspie traits.) it'll be interesting to see how this thread develops. thanks for posting.
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bhetti
Phoenix
Joined: May 18, 2009
Posts: 874
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess I'm fairly bi-gendered as well. I actually don't care much for gender roles, but I'll dress up once in a while. otherwise I prefer to be sexually nondescript, and nothing annoys me more than for people to make assumptions about me based on my chromosomes. |
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outlier
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 1526
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I cannot answer the question, but am curious to see others' responses. I don't know what I am most of the time, but feel mostly male. |
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Caterina
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Age: 33
Posts: 38
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Back in 2007, I attended a conference on autism/Asperger's at Harvard Medical School, and one of the psychologists presenting there said that it was very common for people with Asperger's to not associate solely with their biological gender. She said that it is common for Aspies to associate with the other gender, with both genders, or with neither gender.
As for myself, although I am biologically female, I don't particularly associate with the female gender, or with the male gender, for that matter. In some ways, I am a gender of one, with some traits that are associated with both genders and some traits that are not associated with either gender.
In terms of sexuality, going by the relationships I've had, I would be characterized as predominantly straight, although I am equally attracted to people of both genders. Frankly, though, I find that I make even less sense to women than I do to men, which is probably why I've dated more men than women (I have found that the ability to engage in "appropriate" social interaction is more important for women than it is for men, meaning that most NT women just don't "get" me). My current partner of the last four years (a fellow aspie) is male.
I think there are many of us who, like me, don't particularly associate with "maleness" or "femaleness." I classify myself as aspie-sexual, since concepts like "straight," "gay," "bisexual," "pansexual," etc. are too rigid and politicized for me to identify with them. Likewise, "male" and "female" don't really fit me, either, and frankly, I don't really understand what being "male" versus being "female" means.
To answer your question, I think that while one does not have to be aspergian to be bi-gendered, many of us aspies may be bi-gendered in terms of having an alternating or "atypical" (i.e. not neatly classified in a NT way) experience of feeling male and/or female.
My $0.02
~ Caterina
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princesseli
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 08, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 532
Location: Honolulu HI/ Los Angeles CA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Caterina wrote: | | Back in 2007, I attended a conference on autism/Asperger's at Harvard Medical School, and one of the psychologists presenting there said that it was very common for people with Asperger's to not associate solely with their biological gender. She said that it is common for Aspies to associate with the other gender, with both genders, or with neither gender. |
Interesting...I dont feel that I really associate with either gender. When I was young, I didnt really have a grasp on gender roles. I never had real a grasp on gender roles till maybe 1.5 years ago and Im 20 right now. I'd say I have a little bit both traits in terms of gender but the way females and males communicate and act does suit me much in either way. |
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buryuntime
oh comely
Joined: Dec 07, 2008
Posts: 3663
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Back in 2007, I attended a conference on autism/Asperger's at Harvard Medical School, and one of the psychologists presenting there said that it was very common for people with Asperger's to not associate solely with their biological gender. She said that it is common for Aspies to associate with the other gender, with both genders, or with neither gender. |
What exactly does associating with a biological gender role mean? Is it just sexuality and the way you dress? I've never even thought about it so I don't really know how to answer the question. |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 9935
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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AS tends to mute the influence of culture on personality, so that we do not follow male and female stereotypes as strongly as most. Identifying as male or female is different from following a stereotype, though. I'm female and identify as female, which means that even though I score just about equally male and female on the MMPI (which is based on gender stereotypes), I'm not bi-gendered or non-gendered... I just don't think that "female" is attached to all the things society says it is attached to. My gender is a relatively unimportant part of my identity just because to me, the implications of being female amount to not much more than minor cognitive differences, the ability to have babies, a different physical and physiological configuration, and the assumptions society makes about me. That doesn't mean I'm in between genders or anything funky like that. I'm comfortable with being female, just like I'm comfortable with having brown hair and being short.
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ColdBlooded
Phoenix
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Age: 25
Posts: 1136
Location: New Bern, North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| I think i'm Transgender. I identify more as a guy than a girl, even though i'm biologically female... But still very much more on the andogynous side than the macho manly-man side. So, uh, a little bit in-between in some ways, too. I think your gender identity is what it is, regardless of whether or not AS or something else could be an influencing factor. |
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Polkadot
Emu Egg
Joined: Jun 08, 2009
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Wow some really interesting replies!  I didn't realise gender confsion was so common in the aspergers community, I think it's great so many have added their personal experiences, I began this topic feeling fairly alone and wondering if that girl was right after all, that maybe I was a bit weird - but now seeing that others understand I think stuff it, this is me and it's not so bad 
Callista I especially enjoyed your reply, though I would say that if you are comfortable being a girl that that's exactly what sex you are, despite your 'non conformist' type, who is anyone to define what a sex should and shouln't be?! Be yourself and be happy with it, social constraints are a bunch of crap! ^^ I generally don't feel fully comfortable with being either sex, sometimes wishing there was a third sex that was somewhere between the two, but mostly one or the other, like waking up and not feeling right having breasts and such, I've been told some days even my facial structure looks more masculine, odd huh!
I was debating wether or not to post this topic, but I'm really glad I did now, what a great response! Keep them coming!
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2ukenkerl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 6931
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Callista,
For what it is worth, I liked your post as well. I am male, seem male, and am happy with it. That is certainly saying nothing against females. I like females, etc... And I don't believe that women really have any "social constraints" today, outside of things like pregnancy or protection. They can be engineers, firefighters, in sports, etc... Some things, that some females and liberals believe are upbringing, are things I have seen are NOT.
Hey, males are subject to more constraints. I is almost like a documentary I watched once "called treckies". A person said people have asked him if he was gay. He said "Let me put it this way. I married a natural born woman, and I also use words like 'fabulous'. You figure it out." So he was saying that even word choice can adversly affect perception.
Also, for what it is worth, I am not aggressive or into sports. So some feel I don't properly fall into the male steriotype either. |
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bhetti
Phoenix
Joined: May 18, 2009
Posts: 874
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| 2ukenkerl wrote: | | And I don't believe that women really have any "social constraints" today, outside of things like pregnancy or protection. |
hey, I liked your post, but I disagree with this. women are still at a disadvantage in the job market, make less than men, and are expected to do the lion's share of housekeeping and child-rearing even on top of a career. women retire with less because they are many times more likely to be unpaid caretakers. there is (are?) plenty of data to back that up, plus my anecdote about a female manager who was the least understanding of my kids' emotional problems after my divorce who refused to make any temporary concessions in my schedule (i.e. working late if my daughter's separation anxiety made me late to the office) while there was a single dad in the office who was given all kinds of concessions because he was male and "what kind of woman would run off and leave a guy to raise the kids on his own?" while it was seen as perfectly normal for the reverse (my case) to occur. |
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poopylungstuffing
Lolliwink Slayer
Joined: Mar 09, 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 7618
Location: Snapdragon Ridge
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:47 am Post subject: |
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My gender identity issues were more prominent when I was a little kid. I truely felt like a boy...I adopted the identities of male characters when I played...Pinnochio...king tut...Jesus...Mowgli...etc...I wore boys clothes...etc..
I sorta feel like I am neither gender now...but leaning towards female..I have relationships with males...(i am poly)...My main partner is not a manly-man...he is gentle..doesn't like sports...he likes reading Young Adult Fantasy books and watching anime..He is on the ADD/PDD-NOS side...
My other friend is VERY ASish...and is bi-gendered..Male one minute and female the next (as the OP described). He is adorable. He is frustrated because he would like to find a "real" girlfriend(as opposed to part-time me)...and he is naturally attracted to ectomorphic masculine females...who are usually lesbians. (hard to find someone like that who doesn't mind the fact that he is biologically male)..especially since he is painfully shy...
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Halvorson
Emu Egg
Joined: Jul 07, 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| I think I should state the obvious: Aspergers appears to be strongly correlated with trans-gender feelings- in girls. One of the most popular general autism theories is that of Simon-Baron Cohen (he's Borat's cousin), who sees autism as a result of an extreme male brain, one geared towards systemizing instead of empathisizing. He's long been trying to test the idea that this extreme male brain is the result of heavy prenatal exposure to testosterone, which presumably "masculinizes" the fetal brain and has found some sketchy support. I wonder if we could find any gay/trans-gender male aspies that would prove Cohen wrong. |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 9935
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I think there's a couple on here... I forget, but I swear I remember a couple of physically male mentally female people around here...
Anway, wouldn't too much testosterone prenatally just predispose you to becoming a lesbian? I mean, the whole finger-length thing and all seems to point to it.
It can't be the whole picture, in any case. This one study just came out recently that measured (yet again) differences in the brain stems between autie and non-autie kids... there's no male/female tendencies in brain stems, not that I know of anyway. It's all about processing sensory information.
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