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LiberalJustice
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 01, 2009
Posts: 386
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 Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: Mandatory Vaccines: Should They Truly Be Compulsory? |
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What do you guys think?
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John_Browning
Deinonychus
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Posts: 394
Location: The shooting range
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Right now I think we can do without it being compulsory, but it might have to be if anti-vaccine groups keep scaring people.
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ruveyn
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Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 73
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Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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For deadly contagious diseases either mandatory vaccine (if available) or mandatory quarantine. The health of the general public must be protected against dangerous contagious disease.
ruveyn |
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NeantHumain
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Joined: Jun 25, 2004
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Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | For deadly contagious diseases either mandatory vaccine (if available) or mandatory quarantine. The health of the general public must be protected against dangerous contagious disease.
ruveyn |
It's ironic that you advocate strongly against government intrusion in health-care reform (i.e., the public option). |
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ruveyn
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Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| NeantHumain wrote: |
It's ironic that you advocate strongly against government intrusion in health-care reform (i.e., the public option). |
The reason why we have governments at all is to protect life and property. That is the only legitimate function of government.
ruveyn |
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Shiggily
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Joined: Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 1317
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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there are no mandatory vaccines. However, if you want to attend school, etc. those institutions may have vaccine requirements. But the government does not force vaccinations. It violates certain religions.
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Sand
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Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 7817
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Shiggily wrote: | | there are no mandatory vaccines. However, if you want to attend school, etc. those institutions may have vaccine requirements. But the government does not force vaccinations. It violates certain religions. |
The danger from infected unprotected people is not only real, it is increasing with time as new viruses accommodate themselves to whatever present remedies we have. Loopy religious beliefs can be tolerated as long as they present no real danger to the public. Once they become a real source of general disasters they must be totally dismissed. Freedom of religion is not a guarantee of freedom to cause irreparable harm to a nation.
On the other hand, pharmaceutical companies make huge profits from the sale of mandatory vaccines. This must be highly regulated for safety and effectiveness as the firms have repeatedly demonstrated their prime interests are more towards profits than public safety. |
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Shiggily
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Joined: Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 1317
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| Sand wrote: | | Shiggily wrote: | | there are no mandatory vaccines. However, if you want to attend school, etc. those institutions may have vaccine requirements. But the government does not force vaccinations. It violates certain religions. |
The danger from infected unprotected people is not only real, it is increasing with time as new viruses accommodate themselves to whatever present remedies we have. Loopy religious beliefs can be tolerated as long as they present no real danger to the public. Once they become a real source of general disasters they must be totally dismissed. Freedom of religion is not a guarantee of freedom to cause irreparable harm to a nation.
On the other hand, pharmaceutical companies make huge profits from the sale of mandatory vaccines. This must be highly regulated for safety and effectiveness as the firms have repeatedly demonstrated their prime interests are more towards profits than public safety. |
people who choose to not take vaccines are usually already isolated (such as the Amish). Otherwise they can be prevented from working in jobs that involve contact with people, or from entering schools, daycares, etc.
Though according to most school and job practices it is up to the individual. the person must sign a waiver. If a contagious disease breaks out, they can be prohibited from entering the establishment, and the establishment is not responsible for any medical costs that may occur.
I find it interesting that you would advocate recreational drug use because it is your right to do whatever you want with your body, but you are for mandatory immunization even though the person is placing their own body in danger. If you are immunized then you don't really need to worry about being exposed to that disease right?
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: |
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I would generally oppose mandatory immunization. After all, the only externalities provided by not immunizing are network effects that just apply to those who haven't immunized. If the immunization is really a good idea, I would expect most people to immunize, and if it is a terrible idea then I expect few to, but I don't think that the free rider problem is one to worry about.
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:24 am Post subject: |
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I would generally oppose mandatory immunization. After all, the only externalities provided by not immunizing are network effects that just apply to those who haven't immunized. If the immunization is really a good idea, I would expect most people to immunize, and if it is a terrible idea then I expect few to, but I don't think that the free rider problem is one to worry about.
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 7817
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| Awesomelyglorious wrote: | | I would generally oppose mandatory immunization. After all, the only externalities provided by not immunizing are network effects that just apply to those who haven't immunized. If the immunization is really a good idea, I would expect most people to immunize, and if it is a terrible idea then I expect few to, but I don't think that the free rider problem is one to worry about. |
These are not normal times. When biological hackers can turn a harmless micro-organism into a virulent killer the fate of a nation can hang on the ability to prevent infection as much as it may need missiles to protect itself. As is obvious by the corrupted media coverage of many situations the public may be panicked to move in a destructive direction. The undeniably sensible campaign to eliminate polio in Nigeria was stopped by ignorant frightened people who believed in conspiricies and witchcraft. |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
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Location: Omnipresent
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| Sand wrote: |
These are not normal times. When biological hackers can turn a harmless micro-organism into a virulent killer the fate of a nation can hang on the ability to prevent infection as much as it may need missiles to protect itself. As is obvious by the corrupted media coverage of many situations the public may be panicked to move in a destructive direction. The undeniably sensible campaign to eliminate polio in Nigeria was stopped by ignorant frightened people who believed in conspiricies and witchcraft. |
If biological hackers can turn harmless micro-organisms into virulent killers, then vaccines won't actually be good in protecting us anyway, because one thing that could/would be done is a changing of the virus so that it does not respond to our vaccine, as the flu changes all of the time like that on it's own.
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Arcadian
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| while mandatory vaccines may be a bit overboard I think that government could go a lot farther than they do to vaccinate their citizens, except for some bio-weapons projects smallpox has been wiped from the earth, and while it may be difficult I would very much enjoy knowing other diseases died as well |
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ruveyn
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Age: 73
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Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Think of Typhoid Mary. She spent the last years of her life in a hospital/prisons. The authorities saw to it that she had no contact with the public. Everywhere she went, she made people sick, sometimes fatally.
If someone had Ebola, they would be quarantined pronto whether they wanted to be or not.
ruveyn |
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Shiggily
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Joined: Dec 02, 2008
Posts: 1317
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | Think of Typhoid Mary. She spent the last years of her life in a hospital/prisons. The authorities saw to it that she had no contact with the public. Everywhere she went, she made people sick, sometimes fatally.
If someone had Ebola, they would be quarantined pronto whether they wanted to be or not.
ruveyn |
healthy carries are much more difficult to track down then people who get sick and spread the disease. Though part of the problem with Mary Mallon was in how the situation was first handled, which contributed to her being so uncooperative.
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