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ShadesOfMe
Bunny Pirate on the seven seas!
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
Age: 18
Posts: 18355
Location: California
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 Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: aspergers a defense in crimes? :( (a bit graphic) |
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I was just enjoying myself, reading my new horse book, and watching an episode of Dominic Dunne's power privilege and justice. Great episode. Name was Robert Durst. he killed some people and dismembered one man. He was also extremely rich, and was dressing like a woman to get the cops off of his trail. HE ALSo abused his wife, before murdering her.
at the beginning it mentioned he barked like a dog. I thought "lol. that sounds like some people on the spectrum I know." This guy was just a freaky dude I find my self making lots of comparisons to things on the spectrum lately.
Like i said, great episode. I thoroughly enjoyed it until I heard Dominic Dunne say "They Claimed that Durst had Aspergers Syndrome a form of Autism that explained his bizarre behavior."
I cant finish it. Why would they claim this when it obviously isn't true??? That's not fair, and just makes us look more weird.
This an was an evil controlling bad guy who hurt people.
why do lawyers do this? 
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mechanicalgirl39
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 07, 2009
Posts: 1225
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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If someone was on the severe end of the spectrum and they genuinely had a meltdown and assaulted someone who wouldn't stop overloading them, I'd understand, and yeah, that should be a defense.
Murdering and dismembering someone? No, no, no, no, no, no, and a great big NO.
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puzzle62
Raven
Joined: Jun 02, 2009
Age: 47
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I watch that show a lot. There is a line between psychopath, sociopath and a lot of disorders. These people who kill and don't care at all are not just aspergers alone, they must also have a condition that leaves them with no empathy at all. Aspergers alone won't do that. They should not say "he has aspergers, therefore it causes him to kill". He has aspergers plus a disorder of the conscience. I have aspergers and high blood pressure, if I have a stroke, no body would say "she has aspergers, so she had a stroke" the aspergers would not cause that, it's called comorbid condition, you can have more than one thing wrong. Patients who have asperger do not SHOW empathy in the acceptable ways for NT's so they assume that there is no conscience. We have feelings, it's the way we outwardly show them that makes stupid lawyers say what they think is right, the psychologists and psychiatrists aren't the ones saying it. |
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x_amount_of_words
Crazy Aspie Gamer
Joined: May 30, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 1008
Location: South Carolina, US
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Even if he has AS, it wouldn't really explain what he did. He probably has other mental health problems. Normally people and their lawyers only care about winning the case, they don't care about stigmas or how accurate the diagnoses are. He could have even lied to get out of trouble, although I don't think that defense would work. Nobody cares if someone has AS. We experience that every day. The best he would get is life in a place for the criminally insane.
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PlatedDrake
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 26, 2009
Age: 29
Posts: 816
Location: Piedmont Region, NC, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Now that just isnt right, either way. People with AS have a high regard for rules and regulations, so regardless of what some one has done to an aspie, i dont see him/her going apeshit and killing the person. If anything, the worst thing an Aspie would do could be more of a mild misdemeanor due to his/her obsessive behavior (heard of a case of an aspie guy was so obsessed with the possible combinations of the lottery numbers, he broke into a thrift store and took most/all of the fill-in sheets). If anything, the episode you saw was likely written in compete ignorance of the condition (which isnt unheard of in many clinical/ER/medical/crime dramas).
Last edited by PlatedDrake on Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cyberscan
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 832
Location: Near Panama, City Florida
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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I have autistic disorder which is considered the most severe form of autism. I don't go around killing people or hurting them.
| mechanicalgirl39 wrote: | If someone was on the severe end of the spectrum and they genuinely had a meltdown and assaulted someone who wouldn't stop overloading them, I'd understand, and yeah, that should be a defense.
Murdering and dismembering someone? No, no, no, no, no, no, and a great big NO. |
The only way I could see using autism to defend this act is if the victim was following the murderer around and purposely overstimulating him. Otherwise, he should have to answer for his crime like anyone else.
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sinsboldly
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 22, 2006
Age: 59
Posts: 14251
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I have always thought it strange that just as someone can be NT and a sociopath, one can be AS and a sociopath, as well. |
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LostAlien
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 584
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:55 am Post subject: |
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I hate mis-information. They got it wrong. They mislabeled. Arg.
I'm angry because there's more wrong information out there now. |
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EvoVari
Sea Gull
Joined: Nov 10, 2008
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:21 am Post subject: |
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I can understand your distress at their mis-representation of Aspergers. The story was obviously fiction! Some writers are just morons. lol
As far as crimminal acts by people whether they are AS,HFA,BP,SCHIZOPHRENIC, non ASD etc, its all about mens rea. Whether the persons intentions were to steal, murder, assault etc. |
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granatelli
Toucan
Joined: Apr 01, 2009
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| PlatedDrake wrote: | | Now that just isnt right, either way. People with AS have a high regard for rules and regulations, so regardless of what some one has done to an aspie, i dont see him/her going apeshit and killing the person. |
The aspies I know do have a high regard for following the rules and proceedures as long as the rules makes sense to them and they agree with them. If, in their minds the rule is illogical or does not seem to make sense they, like an NT, seem to feel free to bend or ignore the rules and laws. |
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Grace09
Raven
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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There was a man in, I think, Oakland? An engineer who murdered his wife and they say he has Asperger's. It was, for whatever reason, brought up in the trial. I think it has nothing to do with being violent, but it does look like his lawyer was using it as a reason for his behavior.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/02/expert-in-reise/
I think some people are prone to violence and it has nothing to do with being on the spectrum, just if someone is violent and on the spectrum it gets brought up. My 13 yr old stepson (with NVLD) will lash out violently when he gets upset, and he sometimes takes it out on my 8 yr old, but the last time I told him I'll call the cops if he does it again and he hasn't tried anything since. He lashes out for strange reasons though, if my 8 yr old beats him in a game, he hits him or if my son in any way, touches my stepson when they are sitting next to each other in the car he'll strike my son and in all honesty, my stepson is a big guy and it's very hard for them not to touch in the car which is why I am in the market for a minivan. |
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
water
Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 3577
Location: Somewhere between Canada and Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert Durst being found "not guilty" had less to do with Asperger's Syndrome and more with the fact he is a NY real estate heir worth a lot of money. This is the real reason he got away with it. |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 27
Posts: 4550
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:27 am Post subject: |
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I can see an Aspie murdering someone about as easily as I can see a neurotypical doing the same. AS doesn't give you any particular tendency towards violence, even though it doesn't give you any particular tendency towards pacifism either.
AS+sociopathy is probably a rather scary thing--someone who sees people as objects to be used for his own benefit, and has the benefit of a detail-oriented mind and probably the ability to think in original ways, and lack of social connections. If his inability to lie convincingly thanks to poor social skills didn't get him caught (possibly because he simply kept his thoughts and actions to himself), he might be very good at being a criminal. I would see a malicious computer hacker or a lone bomber could be AS+sociopathy; but it wouldn't be the AS that caused them to do those things.
Of course, your NT sociopath (well, NT other than being a sociopath) would be scary in a different way--the sort of person who likes to intimidate others to feel superior, or hurt others because he likes to see them in pain; the sort of person who will use charm and manipulation to get what he wants while ignoring the existence of others' rights. That sort of sociopathy has a completely different feel to it; but of course it's not being NT that's forcing them to do those things (take note, those of you who think NTs are all manipulative, bullying liars); it's the fact that they do have this sociopathic outlook that tells them people are only worth as much as what they can give you or do for you...
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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
water
Joined: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 3577
Location: Somewhere between Canada and Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| I would agree with the above statement about NTs if it were not for "mob mentality". An NT who is, generally, a nice person can exhibit "bullying" behaviour when around other NTs doing the same thing, but, can be the exact opposite when not encouraged. People have a good opinion about them and may describe them as caring individuals and be surprised when they hear they bullied someone. I wouldn't exactly call such types "sociopathic", but more like bigots who justify picking on a certain type of person because society tells them "it's okay". If a majority says it's okay to pick on people who are different in some way (and, in America, society often says this is just fine because we don't want to be "PC" and want to be free to express ourselves honestly) it's not really sociopathic behavior. Not classic sociopathy, which is one person acting nice and sweet, telling you what you want to hear, then using you for their own means and ends, not caring about what you want or need. |
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Danielismyname
Ma said I'm special
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 8856
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: |
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I was perusing through austlii one day, and I found a case where a teenager with Asperger's was bullied by a peer at school; he stabbed and almost killed said bully due to such. He got off, as AS was very pertinent to the case; he was unable to ask for assistance from others, and the individual mercilessly bullied and tormented him due to being unable to respond in a "normal" way.
The boy with AS had to attend a certain amount of therapy sessions, but the judge was an understanding person with his verdict.
This above shows that AS can and must be used as a defense if it's a genuine reason, as this individual with AS couldn't ask for help like his normal peers would have (plus, he would have gone to jail otherwise). |
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