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Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Age: 48
Posts: 5678
Location: Middle East
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 Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I didn't remotely know it was anything connected to sex, so I would've asked what it meant even if we were in a public place with lots of people listening.
She said: "...because of the congress, so we ended up at this horrible hotel, that looked like a [term for hotel of ill respute] - I thought she meant a kind of barn, or abandoned warehouse, or whatever.
Same happened the day my mother mentioned to my aunt that my sister was on her period. I asked her what that was, and she snorted and said: "she asks as if she didn't know". Then a year later when I got my first period, I was traumatized because I had no idea why I was suddenly bleeding - and all I knew was that it was forbidden to ask mom. I spent months in agony, not knowing what was wrong with me, till one day I had the nerve to ask my mom again.
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So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur. |
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DenvrDave
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 18, 2009
Age: 44
Posts: 308
Location: Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Hi Greentea,
I meant that I like the AS / NT discussion topic, and am looking forward to more. I also like the "kids say the darndest things" topic, but not enough to start a new thread 
For me, the vibrator question was in a gray area: Not sure if it was entirely innocent. My son is old enough to understand, and has learned quite a bit about, picking up cues from context, body language, facial expression, etc., but since I wasn't there when he overheard his middle-school friends mention "vibrator," he gets the benefit of the doubt and I assume he really didn't know. In private, we discussed the answser to his question, we discussed why such topics should be discussed in private, and we also discussed ways he could possibly have guessed that maybe it might have been a topic suitable for private conversation. |
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Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Age: 48
Posts: 5678
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Dave, beware this open-dialogue forum, we tend to overwork our very few NTs sometimes...  Thing is, out of force of need, being an NT is not enough to participate here. You have to be the rare NT who is not automatically defensive when Aspies ask a clueless question, and to be a bit better than average at understanding our questions and understanding where we're having the trouble getting it. Alas, I'm sorry for you that you've passed the test...! 
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So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur. |
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DenvrDave
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 18, 2009
Age: 44
Posts: 308
Location: Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| @ Greentea: |
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Seraphim
Blue Jay
Joined: Aug 01, 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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To all the NTs and Aspies:
After a family member betrays your trust, do you choose to trust them again? Further, even if they betray you multiple times, and because they are family, do you continue to trust them even though you know you will get burned (yet again)?
Thanks in advance. (I really need clarity on this.)
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All my life I tried to figure out what was wrong with the world ... and then I discovered: There's something wrong with the world. |
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arielhawksquill
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 29, 2008
Posts: 422
Location: Midwest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| No, you should not trust them again. Just because someone is related to you doesn't mean you should not be wary of their pattern of repeated behavior. |
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DenvrDave
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 18, 2009
Age: 44
Posts: 308
Location: Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Seraphim,
I agree with arielhawksquill, if anyone betrays your trust multiple times, even a family member, then you should not trust them again under similar circumstances.
But its not black and white. There are different levels of betrayal, ranging from minor betrayals for example accidentally letting a harmless secret slip to egregious ones such as theft. So one way to view trust is like a scale from 0 to 10, where 0 is no trust under any circumstances whatsoever (rare), 5 is trust in minor things under a limited set of circumstances, and 10 is unconditional trust all the time. If you've ever heard someone say something like "you can only trust so-and-so to a certain point," that's what this expression means. So you can decide for yourself how much you trust this particular family member or/and under what circumstances. And you can also decide how much to trust everyone in your life using the same concept.
I view trust as a gift you can give to another person, or a gift you can withhold. Its a choice you make based on personal history with another person. Fine print: Just my $0.02...hope it helps. Good luck! |
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Seraphim
Blue Jay
Joined: Aug 01, 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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I hear what you're saying, but let me clarify:
It's my mother.
I don't ... know how to ... this is really hard.
It's my mother. I don't know what else to say about that. I mean, I know we have our problems (what family doesn't?), but it feels like every time I want to trust her with a bit of what's going on in my life, she erupts at me, and then I shut down and we don't talk for a few days. It's been like this since I was a child. I repeat the litany in my head that she's not worth it, that I shouldn't try to open up to her. Even my psychologist wanted me to talk to her, but I knew better. Then again, she's my mother.
Does that sound like an excuse? It's complicated, I know. I even tried telling my mother that I found out about AS and how it applies to me. I sent her websites to read and such, but she didn't read any of it and ... At least my sister was up front about it. My sister doesn't believe me and it's the product of years that has forced me to treat her like a stranger. But that's a whole other can of worms....
It would gratifying to shut my mother out of my life, but ... I feel like I can't cry anymore.
[I'm not used to unloading on a public forum. Perhaps there is no answer. Still: To all the NTs and Aspies: After a family member betrays your trust, do you choose to trust them again? Further, even if they betray you multiple times, and because they are family, do you continue to trust them even though you know you will get burned (yet again)?]
_________________
All my life I tried to figure out what was wrong with the world ... and then I discovered: There's something wrong with the world. |
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Greentea
Goddess of Wisdom
Joined: Jun 15, 2007
Age: 48
Posts: 5678
Location: Middle East
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:41 am Post subject: |
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You can trust a person about some things and not about others. Why make it either all-trust or estrangement?
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So-called white lies are like fake jewelry. Adorn yourself with them if you must, but expect to look cheap to a connoisseur. |
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lemon
°ˇ.°.ˇ°ˇ.ˇ°ˇ.°.ˇ°
Joined: Aug 28, 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 4081
Location: belgium
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: |
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trust your mother or not?
good question! I'm a mother myself and I had a lot of trouble trusting my mother (she was actually my aunt but really my mother too)
It is a pity she isn't alive anymore cause I would have loved to discuss this with her (and discussing raising someone with AS in general)
Several things I have learned
- If you tell important things about yourself, don't just do it any moment when this pops up in your head. (even if it is in your head for a long time and you cannot hold it any longer) These are often not the right moments to talk about it. For special subjects you need special moments. Sometimes even an anouncement (like "I'd like to talk about something but I think you might misunderstood me so I don't really dare")
- NT's have completely different emotional reactions, they might say things like 'you are the worst kid in the world' and not mean it. It might be the expression of their own feelings (example "the difficulty they have to participate in a difficult conversation and being the responsable parent all the time" or even just being tired and not knowing how to deal with it) They will not say this to you, and you might be hurt very thourougly because you take their reply seriously.
- NT's do not often understand AS people's reactions, my husband used to be very angry with me because I didn't answer his emotional expectations (he simply thought that I hurt him on purpose)
- Mothers aren't super heroes, we make mistakes. (it is incredibly difficult to be responsible for a growing kid)
- The kid and the mother are not the same kind of person (my mom was herself raised in a very old fashioned way and although she did her best she was too old fashioned at a lot of points (which she realised herself only much later))
- Sometimes mothers see dangers where kids see none (it's not easy to know that there are drugdealers, prostitution and crime people that may get access to your kid's mind, especially not when you have a kid with a receptive mind as someone with Asperger's)
My mum warned me for strange men and didn't let me go out very often, as a teenager i didn't agree at all, but if i hear now stories of Aspie woman and the abuse they have suffered (maybe because we are more vulnerable?), then maybe she was right.
Then again, it might be that you simply cannot trust your mother, it's something you should investigate for yourself if you have real doubts. You should be worried if your mother drinks large amounts of alcohol, puts you in dangerous situations, demands you to do things that are illegal, leaves you to yourself when you really need help, doesn't provide you with enough food, drink, time to sleep, medical care, etc, etc.
Also on a mental level.
The fact she doesn't want to find out about Asperger's if you have this, is strange. It doesn't immediately mean she can't be trusted for anything, but it might have concequences for your education for example (then no one is there to help you when you have difficulties at school because of AS perhaps)
Again... mothers aren't superheroes, and she might be a good mother in general but not for everything. In this case you can perhaps accept her but not completely trust her (and thus you should realise that certain things you will have to be responsable yourself, for example you might have to solve your own school problems). If you are lucky you can find another person who you can trust (father, uncle, grandmother, teacher, ...) |
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DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 3968
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Seraphim wrote: | I hear what you're saying, but let me clarify:
It's my mother.
I don't ... know how to ... this is really hard.
It's my mother. I don't know what else to say about that. I mean, I know we have our problems (what family doesn't?), but it feels like every time I want to trust her with a bit of what's going on in my life, she erupts at me, and then I shut down and we don't talk for a few days. It's been like this since I was a child. I repeat the litany in my head that she's not worth it, that I shouldn't try to open up to her. Even my psychologist wanted me to talk to her, but I knew better. Then again, she's my mother.
Does that sound like an excuse? It's complicated, I know. I even tried telling my mother that I found out about AS and how it applies to me. I sent her websites to read and such, but she didn't read any of it and ... At least my sister was up front about it. My sister doesn't believe me and it's the product of years that has forced me to treat her like a stranger. But that's a whole other can of worms....
It would gratifying to shut my mother out of my life, but ... I feel like I can't cry anymore.
[I'm not used to unloading on a public forum. Perhaps there is no answer. Still: To all the NTs and Aspies: After a family member betrays your trust, do you choose to trust them again? Further, even if they betray you multiple times, and because they are family, do you continue to trust them even though you know you will get burned (yet again)?] |
My father and I could never effectively talk about things of importance, but we did build a relationship and now that he has passed away I really miss him. Our relationship became based on doing, not talking, and in some way without words we came to actually understand each other. If talking with your mother is a frustrating experience, then don't talk with her, but find the common ground and just start walking. Does that make any sense?
I know its more complicated with a mom because that is supposed to be who you can talk to, but supposed and reality don't always cross paths and you end up dealing best you can. I, personally, wouldn't keep sharing personal information with someone where it always ends up badly, but that doesn't mean I would write them out of my life, either. When it comes to family, writing them out is, to me, a last resort.
Try doing, instead of talking, and see if that will work for you.
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Moderator (focused on Parents' Discussion and Kids' Crater)
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DenvrDave
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 18, 2009
Age: 44
Posts: 308
Location: Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Question for Aspies: Should I worry about my son's grades? It really stresses me out.
If you're wondering why I'm asking, my introduction may give some insight: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt108398.html |
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pbcoll
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 15, 2007
Posts: 2190
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Depends how bad they are. You mention he has problems being prepared for school - if he's working hard with poor results planning issues may be the problem. It helps to be pragmatic in these things, for example by concentrating on assignments with a big impact on grades and not on ones with little impact - this may be particularly helpful in subjects he doesn't like. I remember also issues with losing marks for poor presentation rather than bad content - given the poor handwriting common among aspies and so on this could contribute.
I hope you feel welcome on WP.
_________________
I am the steppenwolf that never learned to dance. (Sedaka)
El hombre es una bestia famélica, envidiosa e insaciable. (Francisco Tario)
I'm male by the way (yes, I know my avatar is misleading). |
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Seraphim
Blue Jay
Joined: Aug 01, 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your consideration, all who have replied. I'll try different methods and see what happens.
_________________
All my life I tried to figure out what was wrong with the world ... and then I discovered: There's something wrong with the world. |
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RudolfsDad
Snowy Owl
Joined: Nov 27, 2007
Age: 42
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| millie wrote: | This is wonderful Greentea.
Here is my very basic question:
Why do many NT people not say what they think and say what they do not think?
Please NT people willing to answer - give more of an answer than "politeness."
Why are things so unclear? I spend much time after interactions with people, trying to decipher the true meanings - the subtexts and the subtleties. This has led to lifelong confusion in any kind of relationships with people. NT people I know, giggle at me and say "oh millie..." And I am nearing 47 and still no closer to understanding the truths or untruths behind the words. It makes life and people rather scary.
i think that nearly covers it all...until the next question. |
I think the answer to your question is complex. Many of us (NTs that is) find indirect speech amusing, or at least pleasing. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that we are generally more fond of novelty than people on the spectrum are. We like to be seen as interesting -- and "interesting" often translates to finding new ways of saying something. For example, I once heard someone express his inability to do something (I forget what it was that he couldn't do) by saying "I felt like a one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest". Most of the NT's I know found that hilarious. That's why most of us love figures of speech so much -- we are strongly attracted to the idea of a novel, interesting way of saying something. Someone who is very literal and direct in their speech may be seen as "boring".
Perhaps it's the same phenomenon that leads many NTs to love poetry. (I realize that some people on the autism spectrum love poetry too but is it possible that the source of the enjoyment is different? I don't know.)
I think most NTs don't even realize that there are intelligent people that have trouble understanding indirect speech. So, if you seem smart, they'll simply assume you'll get it when they speak very figuratively.
Sometimes, the answer IS politeness -- but I'll try to go into more detail than just that one-word answer. I think that most of us have such a strong desire to avoid hurting someone else's feelings that we tend to avoid telling someone the "blunt truth". The classic example of the wife in a clothing store asking her husband how she looks in a new pair of jeans: The husband may be thinking "Oh God PLEASE don't buy those. Those pants look HORRIBLE on you", but if he is wise he won't say that. He'll say "You look ok in those, but I think some of the other pants you've looked at are better."
Since people do that so often, most NTs interpret negative statements as being even worse than a strictly literal interpretation would suggest. If the husband says "Those pants look horrible on you", the wife may interpret it to mean something like "I don't care about your feelings anymore and I think you're ugly." -- even though a strictly literal interpretation is a comment only about the pants and not the wife. It's as though NTs play the "spare people's feelings" game so much that we tend to assume everyone else does too and an overly blunt statement is interpreted as worse than it really is.
We're not hopeless about that, though. I have a son with Asperger syndrome and I have been able to re-adjust my interpretation of his more blunt statements so that I am never offended by anything he says. |
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