MelekRawlston
Hummingbird
Joined: Oct 05, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 22
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 Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| From age 13 I was trained to be a NT. Guess I'm not the only one stuck between NT and AS. At some point in time I decided that I would no longer be constrained by the label of AS, as part of my identity. I am still single, however because of that I am more comfortable in my own skin, I now have options (and phone numbers =-p) now. I will always different, the trick to the appeal is to make it look intentional. That way it projects an image of self assurance rather than one of desperation and an inability to fit in. Realize your limitations and own up to your strengths. What I do have an issue with about the label of AS is that the stigma that we impose upon ourselves often is a bigger obstacle to socialization / relationships. To prove my point I did not start to become more well socialized until I put my identity as an aspie behind me, and stopped thinking about it so much. If you just label yourself, your shortcomings suddenly become "hardwired" IE "set in stone", and your strengths and positive characteristics just become "symptoms" a disorder. You may have AS however you are not AS. Your identity is your own, it is not a disorder. |
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Boomshika
Snowy Owl
Joined: Oct 10, 2009
Age: 30
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: |
Many. Suffice to say that yes, I'm still single - dating sporatically but definitely getting to know myself better (not meant in the biblical sense of course). |
LMAO! i would hope not in the biblical sense. refreshing random humor. 
_________________
Oscar wasn't a grouch... He was just an aspie. |
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Ligea_Seroua
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Definately the thread title and much of the OPs content is horribly familiar territory. How come, when I don't just look "normal" but supposedly actually attractive, am I constantly a third wheel, the dateless disaster? *
Half the time, I don't even feel comfortable with my supposedly NT friends, many of them are embarrassingly geeky in the ways I STRIVE to avoid, their music tastes are metal and virtually nothing else, they are smug in their settled relationships and can't conceive of how or why I am single , nor what it is like to NEVER have that level of connection with another human being and claim I "just need to be more confident". Or I am either "too nice" "too sharp" or a fashion (particularly trainers )snob....I'll admit some of the latter, but mainly it's as a joke- although clothes ARE a means of communication, and pretty much the only one I am fluent in.
Sorry this is going completely off topic, it's a bit of a bottled up rant.
* Disclaimer -given I have BDD, this is based on what I'm told. Personally, I would only go so far as I'm not overweight or deformed, use the the right products and take care of my appearance.
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Other people are people too.
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SINsister
Childlike Empress
Joined: May 26, 2005
Age: 45
Posts: 1435
Location: Pandaria
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Ligea_Seroua wrote: | Definately the thread title and much of the OPs content is horribly familiar territory. How come, when I don't just look "normal" but supposedly actually attractive, am I constantly a third wheel, the dateless disaster? *
...
* Disclaimer -given I have BDD, this is based on what I'm told. Personally, I would only go so far as I'm not overweight or deformed, use the the right products and take care of my appearance. |
I feel your pain (intellectually, at least  ), sweets. My Flickr self-portraits get comments like "beautiful" and "gorgeous;" older men assume that I've got multiple boyfriends. The sad reality is that most guys don't give me the time of day; in fact, they utterly ignore me, for the most part.
I assess my own appearance the same way you do.
_________________
Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.
~Steve Jobs |
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Ligea_Seroua
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 16, 2009
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| SINsister wrote: | | Ligea_Seroua wrote: | Definately the thread title and much of the OPs content is horribly familiar territory. How come, when I don't just look "normal" but supposedly actually attractive, am I constantly a third wheel, the dateless disaster? *
...
* Disclaimer -given I have BDD, this is based on what I'm told. Personally, I would only go so far as I'm not overweight or deformed, use the the right products and take care of my appearance. |
I feel your pain (intellectually, at least ), sweets. My Flickr self-portraits get comments like "beautiful" and "gorgeous;" older men assume that I've got multiple boyfriends. The sad reality is that most guys don't give me the time of day; in fact, they utterly ignore me, for the most part.
I assess my own appearance the same way you do. |
well, at least in some sense we are not alone 
Most salt in the wounds remark of late, my very drunken friend told me out of the circle of friends we have, I'm the one she'd go gay for (it was a light hearted remark, not a serious offer).
Just .
Great.
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Other people are people too.
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Merle
Velociraptor
Joined: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 471
Location: Lake Tahoe
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Ligea_Seroua wrote: | | Definately the thread title and much of the OPs content is horribly familiar territory. How come, when I don't just look "normal" but supposedly actually attractive, am I constantly a third wheel, the dateless disaster? * |
Maybe because you are really good looking that most guys don't approach you? And if/when good looking guys approach, you may not be able to recognize the signals of interest?
| Quote: | | Half the time, I don't even feel comfortable with my supposedly NT friends, many of them are embarrassingly geeky in the ways I STRIVE to avoid, their music tastes are metal and virtually nothing else, they are smug in their settled relationships and can't conceive of how or why I am single , nor what it is like to NEVER have that level of connection with another human being and claim I "just need to be more confident". Or I am either "too nice" "too sharp" or a fashion (particularly trainers )snob....I'll admit some of the latter, but mainly it's as a joke- although clothes ARE a means of communication, and pretty much the only one I am fluent in. |
Depending on your circle of friends, then this is the pool of 'guys' which are available. If they're geeky, and you're really good looking then I can see trouble here. Their advice stems from their PoV. You're recognizing it's not for you.
| Quote: | | ...given I have BDD, this is based on what I'm told. Personally, I would only go so far as I'm not overweight or deformed, use the the right products and take care of my appearance. |
Really? What do they think is the issue, what attribute?
| Quote: | | Most salt in the wounds remark of late, my very drunken friend told me out of the circle of friends we have, I'm the one she'd go gay for |
As a man reading this - I'm reading this as a compliment. Makes me curious as to what you look like and your personality. |
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CerebralDreamer
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:08 am Post subject: |
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This is something that really sticks out for me. Over the years I've developed the tendency to try and 'act normal' simply because it made me less of a target. Over the past few months I've experimented with a different approach, essentially exaggerating the role of a shy nerd, and the impacts are more than I expected.
Simply playing the part of a wallflower, keeping my hands close together, head down, acting as if I'm almost afraid to talk, the gaze I get from women is a lot different. They're much more likely to smile and have an interest in talking. With the few relationships I've had, my partners all pointed out the 'nerdy' characteristics as what they were really attracted to.
Obviously, many of us turned away from that personality as a way to make ourselves less of a target, but I'm beginning to think a full-fledged return to that role, even if only part-time, would do many of us a lot of favors.
Anyone else think this is a good suggestion? |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| Ligea_Seroua wrote: | | Half the time, I don't even feel comfortable with my supposedly NT friends, many of them are embarrassingly geeky in the ways I STRIVE to avoid, their music tastes are metal and virtually nothing else, they are smug in their settled relationships and can't conceive of how or why I am single , nor what it is like to NEVER have that level of connection with another human being and claim I "just need to be more confident". Or I am either "too nice" "too sharp" or a fashion (particularly trainers )snob....I'll admit some of the latter, but mainly it's as a joke- although clothes ARE a means of communication, and pretty much the only one I am fluent in. |
Uggh...that sucks. I had a period in my mid 20's where friends were trying to tell me I was too deep, that I needed to fix that to be relatable (mostly a few female friends on that particular point), that I had to lower my standards for what I wanted in terms of a relationship (guy friends on this one - I didn't see it as being that high - rather I think they were more ready to settle for 'getting a piece' any which way, did go out and do that, couldn't understand me hanging back). My thoughts: If I'm doing something in full awareness of the consequences and if I am 'too deep' or 'too picky', you can figure that the too deep aspect makes me all too aware that I - in theory - should be jettisoning everything of my depth if the economics worked that way, so, odds are these things are too indispensible to what every ounce of me sees as truth in my life.
BTW if you do want to peave your aristocratic metalhead friends - start listening to dark jungle . I've learned along the way that, for whatever reason, metalheads HATE it (my best guess is because its sick, dark, phatt, and has no guitar). |
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Kaysea
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 28, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 688
Location: A Cabin in the Woods
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of girls like skinny, effiminate, nerdy type guys. I would imagine that it is an outgrowth of the current paranoia amongst females (perticularly those whom have taken sociology classes) in our society in regards to abuse. I think they subconsciously suppose that a man whom they can physically dominate will, therefore, not be abusive. Perhaps I'm a bit cynical here, but there is usually a grain of truth behind all cynicism.
Re: OP... I can relate somewhat... I seem to carry myself as a bit of a bad-@$$ life-of-the-party tough guy, which tends to pique the interest of a certain kind of woman... It kind of throws them for a loop when they actually talk to me and realize that I am actually a cultured, awkward intellectual who seldom drinks. Also, my standards have grown so high that I am completely unamored with the vast majority of females whom I meet.
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... leave me alone, and I should relish every hour and what it brought me...
--Emerson |
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Only_an_egg
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| Kaysea wrote: | | A lot of girls like skinny, effiminate, nerdy type guys. I would imagine that it is an outgrowth of the current paranoia amongst females (perticularly those whom have taken sociology classes) in our society in regards to abuse. I think they subconsciously suppose that a man whom they can physically dominate will, therefore, not be abusive. Perhaps I'm a bit cynical here, but there is usually a grain of truth behind all cynicism. |
Wow. I’ve always been attracted to men ranging from willowy to skinny. It’s a personal aesthetic. And tall. Tall guys turn me on. A man with beautiful hands, a full mouth, and maybe long hair just looks incredibly sexy to me. And nice eyes….
Thinking that women are so fearful that the reason for liking thin guys is that fear is kind of paranoid.
If a woman is that fearful, she should above all want a short guy. Unmuscular and as short as possible, right? And how well do short guys actually do, do you think?
Or maybe a relly fat guy. They should be getting all the action, as they’re so non-threatening. Or sickly. Maybe crippled guys….
People seem to believe really weird things about women, here. Its like we’re mythical. Hello, we’re people…. |
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Only_an_egg
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:13 am Post subject: |
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I’m here because I want to better understand my friends, who tend to be highly intelligent and to have variations on Aspergers-type personality traits.
If I weren’t overly bright, I wouldn’t have those friends, but being freighted with a high IQ means you’re just not going to be hapy associating with “normals” no matter what empathy quotient they do or don’t have. They aren’t very interesting.
I share the “standards too high” problem, in that any singles-ad I place will have huge qualifiers in it like “well furnished mind.” In one craigslist ad I placed I kept getting replies that were so completely inappropriate that I put in a picture of a bell-curve, with an arrow pointing to a place on the curve and a caption saying “I am here, where are you?”
I think some of the problems you have with “normals” are the same ones I have, simply because of the intellectual differences. I have a very analytical side to me, as well as an intuitive “right-brain” part and good, highly observant social intelligence.
Most people don’t process things very analytically because they don’t have to! People who have to run everything through the painful scrutiny I see here are doing a lot more THINKING than the average “normal” by far!
So part of what looks so alien to you about the average “normal” or (to use the terminology I find here NT (hi – I’m new here)) is the relatively non-cerebral functioning that just glides along and does not reflect a whole lot, does not self-analyze, and is in many ways really self-unaware! They just “are.”
Don’t devalue the analytical. I see some self-deprecation here that seems to follow a “logical path” that includes some hidden illogic. Here’s how it goes:
“I have something lacking in me that NT people have, therfore I tend to feel inferior to NT people; this manifests itself particularly when it comes to attempting to make friends or look for lovers. Since I see myself as inferior, the fact that I’m a lot brighter than a lot of them doesn’t count, even though I actually feel there’s something wrong with this – so I also feel contemptuous of NT people (and they certainly don’t understand me).” Now lets lump ALL NT people into one category. Look at the results and you’ve got something ugly ugly ugly, tangled and miserable.
The good news is that you’re not correct in lumping all NT people together.
And you can not say “All women are like this….” Without making a set of greivous errors. Men who don’t understand this will despair by virtue of generalizing.
What’s true for me – that I’ve always had to seek a very rare kind of man as a potential mate – is true for many people here.
I identify with the title of the thread. I feel like an odd duck too.
I’m seeing someone who I’m finally realizing after years of “weird” behavior -- FINALLY figuring this out – has a set of now-recognizable personality deficits which I’ve taken as slights and personal affronts. He’s proof that someone “passing as NT” can cary on with personal relationships (in a very bumpy way) (with a sufficiently peculiar and patient person) for years. I do wish I’d figured things out a lot sooner. I feel a huge surge of relief in recognizing the pattern at last.
So separate out your true strengths and weaknesses, and then sort your priorities. See if you can evaluate your “must have” requirements: are they reasonable? Can you expect to find the qualities you require in any one human being? If so, realize she may yet be very hard to find. Don’t expect her to be walking down the street or in easy reach.
But you don’t have to give up, either. Advertize. |
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CerebralDreamer
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 516
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| Only_an_egg wrote: | So separate out your true strengths and weaknesses, and then sort your priorities. See if you can evaluate your “must have” requirements: are they reasonable? Can you expect to find the qualities you require in any one human being? If so, realize she may yet be very hard to find. Don’t expect her to be walking down the street or in easy reach.
But you don’t have to give up, either. Advertize. |
I'd have to agree with everything you said, and particularly this part. Out of a random group of say, 500 women, I wouldn't be happy with but one or two of them in a relationship. I'm an odd duck, and I'm better for realizing that I need to date other odd ducks.
The only reason typical NTs have so much success with dating is because they're a dime a dozen. Their minds and personalities are so common that it doesn't create any sort of problems finding romance. When half the population in Oklahoma likes football, country music, and goes to a Baptist Church, it doesn't take much for someone like that to find a kindred soul. |
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Hector
etc., etc.
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Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 2848
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: |
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One respect in which I differ from many of you is that I don't think I have ridiculously high standards. Given a group of other women my age with a similar background to me I'd say I could potentially be attracted to at least half of them. Then remove the one quarter who I may find particularly difficult to get on with from the off, and that leaves at least 3/8 of women who I'd ask out if I felt I had a chance. It's finding a chance that's the hard part.
I'd love to have the outlandish theories some of you guys have about how other people seem to have an easier time finding dates, but I just can't subscribe to any of them. For one thing, so called NTs also include many people with much more serious mental issues than I or most of us have. |
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