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anna-banana
indifferent peapod
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 5598
Location: Europe
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 Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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dude, how many accounts are you going to open before you realise that you're not welcome? go troll some other boards 
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not a bug - a feature.
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TallyMan
Ghost in the machine
Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Age: 149
Posts: 14447
Location: Everywhere, nowhere and everywhen
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: | | Perhaps some of this is related to social pressures- I know that where I grew up at least, very few would ever dare to be openly atheist. You would run enough risk just claiming agnosticism. Still, the Internet seems to be overwhelmingly atheist, which is in contrast to all other polling methods which find strong majorities believing in God. |
I think there are a number of factors accounting for the seeming discrepancy.
1. Levels of belief vary enormously across the world and also to a certain extent within countries. I've heard a number of Americans say anonymously that they are atheist but do not dare "come out" to their friends, family or work colleagues for fear of discrimination and exclusion. In the UK the reverse is more likely to be true nowadays with people openly admitting they are religious likely to be excluded or though of as weird.
2. If the Churches base their counts on the number of people baptised or married therein, the figures will be heavily inaccurate. Typically in the UK people get married in churches because of tradition rather than religious beliefs. It is more of a "party" to have the "big white wedding" in church rather than simply a few words exchanged in a registry office.
3. Many people who claim to be of a religious belief only claim to be such based on the predominant religion of their country. Take my elderly father for example. He claims to be a Christian but never goes to church, doesn't have a bible, never prays, never watches any religious programs on the TV, never mentions or talks about anything to do with religion - but he is a Christian.
4. Mixing up religion with morality. I've heard people exclaim "I'm a Christian!" but in a context where they simply mean they hold certain moral values. Just because someone doesn't go around murdering and robbing doesn't make them a Christian.
Any more?
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 20
Posts: 9152
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| TallyMan wrote: | | 1. Levels of belief vary enormously across the world and also to a certain extent within countries. I've heard a number of Americans say anonymously that they are atheist but do not dare "come out" to their friends, family or work colleagues for fear of discrimination and exclusion. In the UK the reverse is more likely to be true nowadays with people openly admitting they are religious likely to be excluded or though of as weird. |
Peer pressure tends to be a factor that I usually discount, since it doesn't seem to affect me very much (I've never had qualms about disagreeing with people) but yes, I can definitely say that this is true in parts of the US. In the Midwest, you mark yourself as a target for harassment if you claim to be an atheist.
| Quote: | | 2. If the Churches base their counts on the number of people baptised or married therein, the figures will be heavily inaccurate. Typically in the UK people get married in churches because of tradition rather than religious beliefs. It is more of a "party" to have the "big white wedding" in church rather than simply a few words exchanged in a registry office. |
Independent polls and census counts should be more accurate than church baptism rolls, but still perhaps not very accurate. At this point, though, we wander into the question of "what is a real Christian?"
| Quote: | | 3. Many people who claim to be of a religious belief only claim to be such based on the predominant religion of their country. Take my elderly father for example. He claims to be a Christian but never goes to church, doesn't have a bible, never prays, never watches any religious programs on the TV, never mentions or talks about anything to do with religion - but he is a Christian. |
The RINOs (religious in name only) are probably a sizable portion of declared Christians.
| Quote: | | 4. Mixing up religion with morality. I've heard people exclaim "I'm a Christian!" but in a context where they simply mean they hold certain moral values. Just because someone doesn't go around murdering and robbing doesn't make them a Christian. |
This I haven't observed.
MussoliniBismarck already brought up the issue of age demographics on the Internet- younger people are less likely to be religious.
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MussoliniBismarck
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Age: 18
Posts: 57
Location: Jefferson State
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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As I said, people who cannot accept that not everyone is the same is a peasant.
So if in the UK people cannot be religious, and in the US people cannot be atheistic, both societies have a major flaw in them. |
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gina-ghettoprincess
Last of my kind
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 2814
Location: The Town That Time Forgot (UK)
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| MussoliniBismarck wrote: | As I said, people who cannot accept that not everyone is the same is a peasant.
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What do you mean by this?
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'Tvoi plastinki slushala ja,
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Eva ja ljubila tebja...' |
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Friskeygirl
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 912
Location: State of Confusion
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I am perfectly happy with people having their beliefs, its best not to question a persons mental faculties over something that is personal to them.
Its just poor manors to insult people over their faith or lack of faith, it all comes down to who is morally superior in both parties when nether is acting
in a moral way, sorry if I am being to wordy.
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DentArthurDent
Evolve Ye Christians & Dozers
Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Age: 45
Posts: 2184
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: |
Perhaps some of this is related to social pressures- I know that where I grew up at least, very few would ever dare to be openly atheist. You would run enough risk just claiming agnosticism. Still, the Internet seems to be overwhelmingly atheist, which is in contrast to all other polling methods which find strong majorities believing in God. |
In my case not declaring my godlessness is pure opportunistic capitalistic economics 
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EC
Toucan
Joined: Jul 24, 2009
Posts: 260
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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No, Christians aren't morons, but their beliefs are delusional. An important distinction that's often missed...  |
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Tollorin
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 15, 2009
Age: 28
Posts: 444
Location: Sherbrooke,Québec, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| TallyMan wrote: | | Orwell wrote: | | Perhaps some of this is related to social pressures- I know that where I grew up at least, very few would ever dare to be openly atheist. You would run enough risk just claiming agnosticism. Still, the Internet seems to be overwhelmingly atheist, which is in contrast to all other polling methods which find strong majorities believing in God. |
I think there are a number of factors accounting for the seeming discrepancy.
1. Levels of belief vary enormously across the world and also to a certain extent within countries. I've heard a number of Americans say anonymously that they are atheist but do not dare "come out" to their friends, family or work colleagues for fear of discrimination and exclusion. In the UK the reverse is more likely to be true nowadays with people openly admitting they are religious likely to be excluded or though of as weird.
2. If the Churches base their counts on the number of people baptised or married therein, the figures will be heavily inaccurate. Typically in the UK people get married in churches because of tradition rather than religious beliefs. It is more of a "party" to have the "big white wedding" in church rather than simply a few words exchanged in a registry office.
3. Many people who claim to be of a religious belief only claim to be such based on the predominant religion of their country. Take my elderly father for example. He claims to be a Christian but never goes to church, doesn't have a bible, never prays, never watches any religious programs on the TV, never mentions or talks about anything to do with religion - but he is a Christian.
4. Mixing up religion with morality. I've heard people exclaim "I'm a Christian!" but in a context where they simply mean they hold certain moral values. Just because someone doesn't go around murdering and robbing doesn't make them a Christian.
Any more? |
Wow!!! this sound a lot like in Quebec (In the towns a least, in countryside peoples still go to church.)
I will say that religion had nothing to do with be a moron or not. Even though a lot os christians in USA are. |
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claire-333
Phoenix
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Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Posts: 3191
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I have not ever considered one's religious beliefs when determining the judgment of moron. |
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DeaconBlues
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide - call me...
Joined: Apr 22, 2007
Posts: 2490
Location: Earth, mostly
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| MussoliniBismarck wrote: | | Christianity did not create the dark ages but it certainly didn't help end it any faster. |
This statement is not entirely true - quite a bit of knowledge was carried through the Dark Ages because Irish monks needed practice at illuminating manuscripts (so as to make their Bibles prettier), and got it by transcribing documents from the Greek and Roman periods. Much of what became the Enlightenment came from documents preserved by Catholic monks in Ireland.
(Remember that the Library at Alexandria was burned by an Islamic leader, who maintained that the scrolls would either contradict the Qu'ran and be heresy, or confirm it and be unnecessary. The biggest such act by a Christian wasn't done by one of their leaders, but by one of the Conquistadors, who destroyed all the Mayan codexes he could find because nothing written by a non-Christian could, in his view, possibly be anything but heretical. I understand the Pope wasn't too happy, when word got back to Europe... But this was well after the accepted end of the Dark Ages.)
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MussoliniBismarck
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Age: 18
Posts: 57
Location: Jefferson State
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Deacon, what I meant was that during the early and middle dark ages the church tended to impede intellectual growth. The Moors saved the Greek writings as well and I have never heard of a concrete reason as to when and why Alexandria was burned. Caesar, accident, Muslims, ya da ya da.
Gina, I meant exactly what I said, people should not be punished with ostracism for merely being different. |
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gina-ghettoprincess
Last of my kind
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 2814
Location: The Town That Time Forgot (UK)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| MussoliniBismarck wrote: |
Gina, I meant exactly what I said, people should not be punished with ostracism for merely being different. |
I agree. I am just rather confused as to what this has to do with "peasants".
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'Tvoi plastinki slushala ja,
I v kazhdoy nahodila sebja,
Zachem ostanovila menja?
Eva ja ljubila tebja...' |
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MussoliniBismarck
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Age: 18
Posts: 57
Location: Jefferson State
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Peasants were simple minded tools, like people in a modern society can be. |
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pandabear
Fleeting Body
Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Age: 51
Posts: 3314
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| DentArthurDent wrote: | | Morons always make blanket statements |
That's not true. In fact, a number of morons exist who contradict blanket statements. |
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