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| How do you identify yourself? |
| Christian |
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27% |
[ 44 ] |
| Buddhist |
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1% |
[ 3 ] |
| Islamic |
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1% |
[ 3 ] |
| Hindu |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
| Taoism |
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1% |
[ 3 ] |
| Shinto |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Wiccan |
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1% |
[ 2 ] |
| Pagan |
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6% |
[ 10 ] |
| Judaism |
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4% |
[ 7 ] |
| Atheism |
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28% |
[ 45 ] |
| Agnostic |
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18% |
[ 30 ] |
| Scientology |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Sikhism |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Other (smaller religions such as Jainaism or Tenrikyo) |
|
7% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 160 |
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Message |
leejosepho
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 15, 2009
Age: 59
Posts: 697
Location: 100 miles east of Chicago
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 Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Roman wrote: | Okay, lets put it this way:
1) Traditional Judaism = Torah + Talmud
2) Karaite Judaism = Torah alone
3) Belief in one God = may be the creation account, and thats it
So both 1 and 2 clearly fall into Judaism category. As far as 3, I don't think so. The OP seem to suggest that 3 is also Judaism because it rejects Jesus; I don't agree with it, since it doesn't have any Jewish rituals. You might even argue that at least some Buddhists believe in one God, and fall into 3. |
Close enough for me, and it is actually accurate to say Judaism, Islam and Christianity all have the same "God", just worshipped (or not) quite differently!
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Cowbird
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 20, 2009
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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I was raised Discordian. Still practice it daily. I wasn't sure where others might put that but I put it under "Pagan" as there is a lot of animistic, Voodoo funkiness in there.
EDIT: How are Wiccans not Pagan? |
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Vyn
Sea Gull
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
Age: 22
Posts: 236
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Roman wrote: | | Vyn wrote: | | Well secular humanism is a growing religion true, but not one I considered large enough to give it's own category (see Other). And I doubt there's 20% of Americans who are secular humanists. Considering the 2008 census showed 76% identified as Christian, and 15% as agnostic-atheism, I don't think 20% of that came out within a year. |
I still think that secular humanism is more common than Judaism, so the two shouldn't be lumped together.
You can't say it doesn't have enough members to be separately listed, since Jews have only 2% of population and you still lit it.
If you want it to be "other" thats fine, but then ppl who believe in one God should vote "other", NOT Jewish. |
Yes, that's fine, I was merely making an assumption earlier based on the God of Abraham, the common "God." Most every other God has a name and is referred to as such. And I wasn't looking for just American answers, but world ones. Your earlier post stated American and that's the demographic I checked. But secular humanism over the world is still smaller than Judaism, and it's not recognized as a "Major" world religion.
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Roman
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Age: 29
Posts: 1098
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| leejosepho wrote: | | Roman wrote: | Okay, lets put it this way:
1) Traditional Judaism = Torah + Talmud
2) Karaite Judaism = Torah alone
3) Belief in one God = may be the creation account, and thats it
So both 1 and 2 clearly fall into Judaism category. As far as 3, I don't think so. The OP seem to suggest that 3 is also Judaism because it rejects Jesus; I don't agree with it, since it doesn't have any Jewish rituals. You might even argue that at least some Buddhists believe in one God, and fall into 3. |
Close enough for me, and it is actually accurate to say Judaism, Islam and Christianity all have the same "God", just worshipped (or not) quite differently! |
Well, what you just mentioned about Judaism, Christianity and Islam is one reason why you can't classify 3 as Judaism. I know history says that Christianity and Islam branched off of Judaism, which is OP-s main argument. But given that both Christianity and Islam has far more members than Judaism, it is no longer appropriate to view Judaism as a generic name of the entire category. Thus, it is not appropriate to lump 3 with Judaism (as opposed to Christianity and Islam) either. |
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leejosepho
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 15, 2009
Age: 59
Posts: 697
Location: 100 miles east of Chicago
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| cyberscan wrote: | | I'm ethnically from the tribe of Judah (to the best of my understanding), but I don't honor Jewish traditions that make keeping the Torah a burden such as counting the number of steps I take on the Sabbath, etc. I also believe what Y'shua ben YHWH has stated in the renewed covenant. I cannot call myself a Christian because I do not believe that the commandments given through Mosheh have been done away. I do not celebrate any of the man made Christian holidays either. I also believe that the majority of the people of the North America, Europe, Australia, as well as many other nations on other continents are descended from the "lost" tribes of Israel. Therefore, I don't fit into any of the faiths listed in the poll. |
I suspect there might be some Levite in my maternal ancestry, but I have no way to verify that.
Shalom
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Roman
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Age: 29
Posts: 1098
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Vyn wrote: | | Roman wrote: | | Vyn wrote: | | Well secular humanism is a growing religion true, but not one I considered large enough to give it's own category (see Other). And I doubt there's 20% of Americans who are secular humanists. Considering the 2008 census showed 76% identified as Christian, and 15% as agnostic-atheism, I don't think 20% of that came out within a year. |
I still think that secular humanism is more common than Judaism, so the two shouldn't be lumped together.
You can't say it doesn't have enough members to be separately listed, since Jews have only 2% of population and you still lit it.
If you want it to be "other" thats fine, but then ppl who believe in one God should vote "other", NOT Jewish. |
Yes, that's fine, I was merely making an assumption earlier based on the God of Abraham, the common "God." Most every other God has a name and is referred to as such. And I wasn't looking for just American answers, but world ones. Your earlier post stated American and that's the demographic I checked. But secular humanism over the world is still smaller than Judaism, and it's not recognized as a "Major" world religion. |
According to stats, at least half of the world Jewry is in USA. Now do the math:
1) The number of humanists in USA is greater than the number of Jews in USA
2) The number of humanists in the world is greater than the number of humanists in USA
THEREFORE
3) The number of humanists in the world is greater than the number of Jews in USA
BUT
4) The number of Jews in USA is equal to the half of the number of Jews in the world
THEREFORE
5) The number of humanists in the world is greater than half of the number of Jews in the world
Well, true, it can be greater than 1/2 and still less than 1. But 1/2 is a significant number, so you should NOT lump world's humanists with world's Jews. |
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Roman
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Age: 29
Posts: 1098
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Maggiedoll wrote: | | Roman wrote: | | So did your family object to your becomming Christian? I know anything to do with Jesus is anathema among Jews, even the atheist ones. |
My maternal line is Jewish. My mother is now Buddhist, and my father is atheist. (Or perhaps agnostic.. he doesn't believe in any deities or anything, but something about good and evil, I think, but fiercely adheres to the whole you-don't-need-religion-to-be-good thing. Which of course ends up meaning needing to be good without believing that any higher power knows or cares.)
My grandmother was afraid of all things Christian.. but being that my gentile father is an atheist, that wasn't too much of a problem. She grumbled over the Catholic name, but I was named after my father's mother, not after the saint. Although I hear that my father's mother was a saint, (except for some incident about hitting my uncle over the head with a frying pan, but my dad said he deserved it..) but not an official one. My parents were married by a judge in an arboretum.. no churches or anything. |
So if everyone in your family are either Jewish or atheists, how did you become Christian? Was it some influence from outside of your family, or did you do that completely on your own? |
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Danielismyname
Zombies ate my NT
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 8275
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| That would be an atheist. |
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Ambivalence
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 613
Location: PEEuhLEE
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Vyn wrote: | | Yes, that's fine, I was merely making an assumption earlier based on the God of Abraham, the common "God." |
I expressly do not believe in that God. An option for "Deist" would probably be useful.
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cyberscan
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 744
Location: Near Panama, City Florida
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Roman wrote: | | cyberscan wrote: |
Very good question. I'm ethnically from the tribe of Judah (to the best of my understanding), |
And who do you believe constitute the tribe of Judah? Do you believe that it is made up of people who are today referred to as Jews, or do you believe it is made up by other groups of people?
| cyberscan wrote: |
but I don't honor Jewish traditions that make keeping the Torah a burden such as counting the number of steps I take on the Sabbath, etc. |
I know a lot of groups say that they don't have to "count the number of steps" on the sabbath, but they still follow the holiday and do so on saturday. So, while you are not legalistic, do you still follow sabbath? How about kosher? How about biblical feasts?
| cyberscan wrote: | | I do not celebrate any of the man made Christian holidays either. |
Do you celebrate biblical feasts though (pass over, day of attonment, etc)?
| cyberscan wrote: | | I also believe that the majority of the people of the North America, Europe, Australia, as well as many other nations on other continents are descended from the "lost" tribes of Israel. Therefore, I don't fit into any of the faiths listed in the poll. |
When you said "many other nations on other continents" does it include asians and/or blacks? |
People who compose the tribe of Judah are those descended from Judah (son of Jacob). The term, "Jew" was first used in Kings and it was a derogatory term that referred to the Southern Kingdom. The Southern Kingdom was composed of Levi, Judah, and Benjamin. Most modern day Jews are very likely descended from these three tribes that made up the southern kingdom. I keeps the Feasts of YHWH (notice that I do not call them the Feasts of the Jews). This starts with Pasach (Passover or preparation day for the festival of unleavens), Unleavens, Shavout (Pentacost), Yom Teruah (Day of Trumpets known to Jews as Rosh Hoshanna), Yom Kippur (Day of attonement), Sukkote (Feast of Tabernacles), and Shemini Atzeret ("8th Day Solomn Assembly). I also keep the Sabbath (Friday evening to Saturday evening). I also eat clean foods as defined in Leviticus. Israels includes those who are physically descended from Jacob (regardless of skin color) as well as those who have taken on the Israelite customs and faith. They are to be treated equally, and yes, that includes Blacks, Asians, and others. Israel was not given a position of privilege but rather a position of RESPONSIBILITY. Israel (all of the tribes) is supposed to be a blessing for all mankind.
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cyberscan
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 744
Location: Near Panama, City Florida
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Roman wrote: | | cyberscan wrote: |
Very good question. I'm ethnically from the tribe of Judah (to the best of my understanding), |
And who do you believe constitute the tribe of Judah? Do you believe that it is made up of people who are today referred to as Jews, or do you believe it is made up by other groups of people?
| cyberscan wrote: |
but I don't honor Jewish traditions that make keeping the Torah a burden such as counting the number of steps I take on the Sabbath, etc. |
I know a lot of groups say that they don't have to "count the number of steps" on the sabbath, but they still follow the holiday and do so on saturday. So, while you are not legalistic, do you still follow sabbath? How about kosher? How about biblical feasts?
| cyberscan wrote: | | I do not celebrate any of the man made Christian holidays either. |
Do you celebrate biblical feasts though (pass over, day of attonment, etc)?
| cyberscan wrote: | | I also believe that the majority of the people of the North America, Europe, Australia, as well as many other nations on other continents are descended from the "lost" tribes of Israel. Therefore, I don't fit into any of the faiths listed in the poll. |
When you said "many other nations on other continents" does it include asians and/or blacks? |
People who compose the tribe of Judah are those descended from Judah (son of Jacob). The term, "Jew" was first used in Kings and it was a derogatory term that referred to the Southern Kingdom. The Southern Kingdom was composed of Levi, Judah, and Benjamin. Most modern day Jews are very likely descended from these three tribes that made up the southern kingdom. I keeps the Feasts of YHWH (notice that I do not call them the Feasts of the Jews). This starts with Pasach (Passover or preparation day for the festival of unleavens), Unleavens, Shavout (Pentacost), Yom Teruah (Day of Trumpets known to Jews as Rosh Hoshanna), Yom Kippur (Day of attonement), Sukkote (Feast of Tabernacles), and Shemini Atzeret ("8th Day Solomn Assembly). I also keep the Sabbath (Friday evening to Saturday evening). I also eat clean foods as defined in Leviticus. Israels includes those who are physically descended from Jacob (regardless of skin color) as well as those who have taken on the Israelite customs and faith. They are to be treated equally, and yes, that includes Blacks, Asians, and others. Israel was not given a position of privilege but rather a position of RESPONSIBILITY. Israel (all of the tribes) is supposed to be a blessing for all mankind.
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I am AUTISTIC - Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Straight Talking, Intelligently Conversational. |
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Roman
Phoenix
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Joined: Mar 18, 2005
Age: 29
Posts: 1098
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| cyberscan wrote: |
People who compose the tribe of Judah are those descended from Judah (son of Jacob). The term, "Jew" was first used in Kings and it was a derogatory term that referred to the Southern Kingdom. The Southern Kingdom was composed of Levi, Judah, and Benjamin. Most modern day Jews are very likely descended from these three tribes that made up the southern kingdom. |
So if modern Jews are descendants of the three southern kingdoms, which include Judah, and you say you are also descendant of Judah, does it mean you are a Jew? In particular, from secular demographic perspective, are you considered a Jew? Did your parents consider themselves Jewish? If not, what is your ethnicity?
| cyberscan wrote: | | I keeps the Feasts of YHWH (notice that I do not call them the Feasts of the Jews). This starts with Pasach (Passover or preparation day for the festival of unleavens), Unleavens, Shavout (Pentacost), Yom Teruah (Day of Trumpets known to Jews as Rosh Hoshanna), Yom Kippur (Day of attonement), Sukkote (Feast of Tabernacles), and Shemini Atzeret ("8th Day Solomn Assembly). I also keep the Sabbath (Friday evening to Saturday evening). I also eat clean foods as defined in Leviticus. |
While you, yourself, don't subscribe to any denomination, do you attend a church? If so, what denomination is that church?
[quote="cyberscan" Israels includes those who are physically descended from Jacob (regardless of skin color) as well as those who have taken on the Israelite customs and faith. They are to be treated equally, and yes, that includes Blacks, Asians, and others. Israel was not given a position of privilege but rather a position of RESPONSIBILITY. Israel (all of the tribes) is supposed to be a blessing for all mankind.[/quote]
I know that, as long as you are descendant of Jacob, skin color won't change anything. However, it can still be true that most descendents of Jacob happened to have a certain skin color. In particular, if you are a descendant of Jacob who is black, you are still Israelite. But the question is, are there descendants of Jacob who are black? And if there are, how many? There were a lot of studies done that subscribe to different points of view on the issue. Some claim that Israelites are mostly of European descent; some claim they are mostly of African descent. Of course, logically you can combine the two and say they are mixed. So what do you believe? |
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Horus
Blue Jay
Joined: Sep 15, 2009
Posts: 89
Location: A rock in the milky way
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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I could never wrap my mind around the concept of a personal god. Certainly not the omniscient and omnipotent deity of the exoteric Judeo-Christian faiths. I deliberately left out god's supposed omnibenevolence according these faiths, because there really is no consensus on that among Judeo-Christian belief systems or individual believers. Existence being what it is, omnipotence and omnibenevolence seem logically incompatible no matter how you slice it. So...I define myself as an atheist because while I don't claim to be CERTAIN there's no such thing as a personal god, I really see no strong reasons to BELIEVE in such a being. If there is a personal god, I really doubt *it's* characteristics are reasonably similar to those the Roman Catholic Church (for one example) ascribes to it. If there is any form of consciousness in existence which does not have it's origins in a physical entity (like a brain ofcourse), i'd guess it's something akin to the "absolute" of Herbert Spencer.
Or...the "All" of the Hermeticists, the chinese concept of the Tao, the Ain Soph of the Kabbalah, Parabrahmam of the Hindus, the "thrice-great darkness" (this is perhaps where the Hebrew kabbalists derived their concept of "the three negative veils of existence" and Ain Soph is one of the three) of the ancient Egyptians, etc.....
This is a "no-thing-ness" which would be beyond all limitations and dualities....including humankind's beloved "good and evil". It is infinite, ineffable and can't be seen as anything other than pure consciousness stripped of all other attributes. If it exists....it simply IS.
At any rate....as fascinating as it is to me....I ultimately can't conceive of ANY form of consciousness which doesn't originate in a physical entity. I don't think that's so unusual, mystics the world over have always claimed "the absolute" transcends ordinary human reason. And ordinary human reason seems to be the only form of reason i'm capable of. Thus....I remain firmly grounded in scientific materialism and if there is something *more* to reality...so be it. If there is.....it sure as hell doesn't seem to do me, or billions of other humans, any good. |
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LiendaBalla
Oppinionated Fire Mouth
Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 1249
Location: Houston Texas United States
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Christian fundamentalist in training, who happens to have issues with congragational groups. They humanise God, and his Angels, including some fallen ones. They have placed ideas of material objects in discussions of heaven or hell, as if there were never any figurative meanings in the first place. Those are just two ideas floating in my oppinion, anyway.
Oh, and I also believe in ghosts, some curses, and can accept the idea of extra terrestrials. I believe phsychicks exist, but some fake ones make them look stupid.
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Lienda the edit queen.
Being single rules!
Last edited by LiendaBalla on Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:00 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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SamwiseGamgee
Deinonychus
Joined: Jan 19, 2009
Age: 22
Posts: 305
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't believe in any religious stuff but I sometimes wish I did. I tried to learn and follow Buddhism a few years ago because I like some of the ideas. I also think I'd like to be a Bhikkhuni. |
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