The quality of animation don't only depend of the frames rate. And really I don't understand the american animation obsession with movements. With clever use immobility and camera pan of limited animation, anime convey much more emotions that with the full animation of american animation.
It's hardly an obsession with movement - Animation = movement. So the animation in anime sucks. What you call clever use of immobility and camera pan of limited animation, most artists would call corner-cutting and that is the reason they do it. A bit strange to see people rationalizing lazyness as clever or somehow contributing to the quality.
The technical quality of a animated production don't only on the quality of movements, and the quality of movements don't only depend on frame rate. In animation the movement is a illusion, depending on how good "illusionnists" the animators are, you can get convicing movements with a little number of frames. In Princess Mononoke, in the scene where San attack Irontown the director chose to only use two frame for when they swinging they knifes and swords because it's was the most convincing way to do it. (And studio Ghibli is certainly a proof that the japanese animators are not lazy.) Another part of the quality of animation is the "graphical quality", in which anime is really good. American cartoons on the other end got this last years the tendency to use ugly character designs and poorly draw backgrounds. The "movement" is the only thing their still doing good. Maybe the tendency will reverse in a few years.
EC wrote:
Full animation is quality, it has nothing to do with showing off. If you have money, you can indeed do it. Japanese companies could easily earn money and make a proper one, but grinding mediocre ones out is apparently better.
It's certainly is show off in "Snow White and the seven dwarfs". What is the need of thirty something fully animated animals and birds turning around Snow White if not showing off? It's a lack of effort and money!!! This is a good thing that great science-fiction and fantasy shows can be produce without the need of a Hollywood budget.
EC wrote:
You really have to admire the Japanese for the way that Anime is used as a medium for all kinds of stories. What they lack in animation, they make up for in diversity that is actually true, but seriously: Disney hasn't slaughtered anything. Quite the opposite, they're famous for their cartoons which are not in as great a quantity as anime, and story-wise, most of them are fairy-tales, but that doesn't make them worse and that's what I don't get about anime fans: How can you say that animation is better than anime is worse just because it's not neccesarily for adults?
I've got nothing against the fairy tales. Walt Disney do had something against them though. He ripped down their depths with a childish view of good and evil. Walt Disney is a man who agrred with McCarthy communism hunt as well has being a chauvinist unable to write down good female characters. (Unless they were evil witches ) The chauvisnism of Disney is one of the main responsables of the sexism of fairy tales. The original ones were at their time FEMINISTS. If you want good fairy tales you should watch "Spirited Away", "Le roi et l'oiseau", "Raining Cats and Fogs" and "Kirikou and the sorceress" or the anime serie "The snow queen" or the russian version of thsi same tale if you can found it. They all great show and are what fairy tales should be.
Joined: May 26, 2008 Age: 22 Posts: 6123 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:32 am Post subject:
To bring to life doesnt have to meant that the grapics are top notch, it can mean how alive the characters feel. For example I could ask whether just because the character of Lucky Star are like this most of the time, does that make them feel less alive then say a general scene of Family Guy.
Funny you would talk about fairy tales, because a new anime started recently called Fairy Tale. _________________ Blast Reality! Burst it into shreds! Banishment... this world!
Joined: Jun 07, 2008 Age: 31 Posts: 237 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:25 am Post subject:
I like anime but even I think there are some very pathetic and crazy fans. Im in argeement with the youtube guy that it's good that it covers all genres and it's a recognised medium. There are some US toons that have had limited animation *cough anything produced by Filmation cough* but their human figures in particular the females were healthy looking and alot of people in the industry cut their teeth. Spongebob is for kids but doesn't mean there isn't jokes slipped in that go above their heads.
This isn't making much sense so Im going to stop.
Thanks for reading
Joined: Nov 13, 2005 Age: 26 Posts: 1641 Location: the black hole
Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:22 pm Post subject:
personally i'm not going to watch the videos but i come as a fan of both styles.
and as a kingdom hearts nut i hate to see disney cut down, i grew up with disney, i will agree that ever since they joined with pixar things aren't like they should be but... i still hold to my roots.
as for anime i love how they actually put effort into the graphics, like shading and highlights in the characters and backgrounds. i have yet to see a current cartoon put some effort into the chracters they just make them flat no shading whatsoever.
but yet i lean more towards cartoons for the styles or at least cartoons like alantis the first one not the second, and tom and jerry and the roadrunner and cyote [can't spell]
i haven't actually seen much anime i usually watch the movies if anything, but i've seen escaflowne, advent children, and some hellsing and they all have the shading and highlights in the characters.
but that is my two cents. _________________ "It's the song of destruction a requiem of the end" jr in xenosaga III
Joined: May 26, 2008 Age: 22 Posts: 6123 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:22 am Post subject:
Hey Jetfox if you want an anime with some simularities to Kingdom Hearts, I might recomend the anime Pandora Hearts. It is not as kiddy as Kingdom Hearts, but has a simular feel, It also gets a little criticised for it's graphics, but I barely noticed it and mystery and character are great. Check here if you want to check it out. _________________ Blast Reality! Burst it into shreds! Banishment... this world!
Yeah it'd be good to see some more "adult" western style animation like the movie heavy metal, imagine snow white quality animation with sex and brutal killings that would be very pleasing to the eye.
I don't like American or Japanese animation... at least not anymore. The quality of American cartoons has really declined, and I've never cared much for the Anime style. And I find the stories of both styles to be boring, immature, and lacking in substance, and the characters are just annoying.
Joined: Jul 02, 2006 Posts: 11120 Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:04 am Post subject:
I am into Anime because story and character personalities. Also sometimes the action scenes like the Gundam Series. _________________ "You are the stars and the world is watching you. By your presence you send a message to every village, every city, every nation. A message of hope. A message of victory."- Eunice Kennedy Shriver
Joined: May 26, 2008 Age: 22 Posts: 6123 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:46 am Post subject:
Cyberman wrote:
I don't like American or Japanese animation... at least not anymore. The quality of American cartoons has really declined, and I've never cared much for the Anime style. And I find the stories of both styles to be boring, immature, and lacking in substance, and the characters are just annoying.
So what makes you say anime stories are boring, immature, and lacking in substance. Well admitedly there are some, but you may have not seen many of the more mature ones, or what do you classify as immature. Well especialy one of the big hits, and soon to be released dubs is the series Spice and Wolf, in the series despite the wolf spirit walking around nude at the beginging, it is not used for fanservice. The series is mostly about how the two leads talk to each other and largely about the guy's trading in a medievil setting and about ecconomics about everything from why the small trader gave him a deal, to why that stock of armou he bought to trade is now useless. It is a very mature series with interesting character and depth.
They are not all fighting, giant robots or kids stuff. The romance genre has some great characterss, some have some amazing story, or even a particular studio aims at webbing theshow kind of artisticly with symbolism, satire and going for the strange and quirky. Most don't get the more theological parts of it, or cast off a series with a love interest being a pretty robot, meant only for fan service when in fact the series actualy presents the subject very maturaly and gives an insitfull look at modern society. _________________ Blast Reality! Burst it into shreds! Banishment... this world!
Joined: Nov 13, 2005 Age: 26 Posts: 1641 Location: the black hole
Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:33 am Post subject:
Bradleigh wrote:
Hey Jetfox if you want an anime with some simularities to Kingdom Hearts, I might recomend the anime Pandora Hearts. It is not as kiddy as Kingdom Hearts, but has a simular feel, It also gets a little criticised for it's graphics, but I barely noticed it and mystery and character are great. Check here if you want to check it out.
i read about it and it does seem similar to kingdom hearts, they even got an organization and everything, but the link to the video is broken on my browser, it worked once and then it just broke, so i went to youtube but couldn't find episode 1. so i'll try again later.
but i have seen that pandora hearts often when i search for kingdom hearts on various sites, never thought much of it though. _________________ "It's the song of destruction a requiem of the end" jr in xenosaga III
Hey Jetfox if you want an anime with some simularities to Kingdom Hearts, I might recomend the anime Pandora Hearts. It is not as kiddy as Kingdom Hearts, but has a simular feel, It also gets a little criticised for it's graphics, but I barely noticed it and mystery and character are great. Check here if you want to check it out.
Watched the first two episodes, so far it's good. Thanks a lot. I was feeling down today and it made feel better. Peoples can say all they want about the technical side, anime is still great to gear you up by allowing the mind to escape and allowing it to rest and strengten up a little.
I think the guy was spot on - it was a reasonable argument, backed up with technical awareness. I'm going to be honest here and say I really really hate how anime has effected animation in a stylistic sense. I like some of the the ideas but they are used in a way that is far too restrictive for my taste. I think the comparison between Japanese and American animation is a generalisation (I'm sure there must be Japanese animators who don't do "anime", and obviously there are American animators that imitate anime) but basically I aggree that overall anime seems to be lacking in even the most basic principles of animation.
) The chauvisnism of Disney is one of the main responsables of the sexism of fairy tales. The original ones were at their time FEMINISTS. If you want good fairy tales you should watch "Spirited Away", "Le roi et l'oiseau", "Raining Cats and Fogs" and "Kirikou and the sorceress" or the anime serie "The snow queen" or the russian version of thsi same tale if you can found it. They all great show and are what fairy tales should be.
