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DenvrDave
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 18, 2009
Age: 44
Posts: 306
Location: Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
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 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: Still Struggling in School |
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Well its the end of the first trimester and the results are not good for my son. There are four Ds, one F, and a B in band...thank god for the band teacher. And the only reason the Ds are not Fs is because I physically went to the school, pleaded with the teachers to allow my son to make up missing work, picked up the work, and forced him to do the work at home on weekends. If it was totally up to him he'd be failing all his classes except band.
The thing is, I'm not a very pushy or insistent parent, in fact I'm pretty darn lenient and easy-going. I'd be fine if he got all Cs. But man this really stresses me out because I just want my son to graduate high school, and at this rate I don't see how its going to happen. The really frustrating thing is that I don't feel like I know fully why he is doing so poorly, and I certainly haven't found ways to help him succeed. I feel like I've tried everything. Part of me thinks he is deliberately manipulating the system and undermining every intervention I and his teachers have tried.
Anyway, I guess I'm just venting here because I don't have any concrete questions to ask of this forum, and I've asked the "what do I try next" questions over and over and over again.
What would you do if you were in my situation? Keep beating your head against the wall? Change schools? Let him fail?
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Avatar = two >14,000 ft peaks in the Rocky Mountains photographed in summer 2009 (>4,267 meters). |
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Tracker
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 17, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 626
Location: Waco Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Well, to state the obvious..
Have you tried asking him why he is struggling in the classes? Is it just the homework that isn't being done, or does he fail to understand the material also? Short of actually having a conversation with your son, it is hard to understand the problem based merely on his grades. |
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Di5
Butterfly
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
Age: 53
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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I hear your pain..our 16 year old son (my stepson, and he lives with us, but only since 3/09), has had similar difficulties, went into this school year Sophmore, (High School) telling us and his therapist, "I totally get it, that I'm only hurting myself by not handing in assigments, etc, and I'm going to stick with it this year"...
Well, his first quarter, despite his assurances, have been a "roller coaster" ride...A's AND F's on the Progress Report...so we stepped up our involvement, are now regularly e:mailing back and forth with all teachers, and holding his "feet to the fire".... it's working, but we know this is a bandaid, and I addressed it to his therapist last session....that we are beside ourselves, VERY concerned about his future, etc., and specifically asked his therapist to see if he can figure out any way to motivate our son to do better for HIS OWN future!
Our son is also due to have and IEP evaluation at the school (he was only diagnosed a few months ago!), and I hope that the school will be able to provide additional support and encouragement...
Best to you and yours, keep us posted on how it's going..you are not alone!
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DenvrDave
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 18, 2009
Age: 44
Posts: 306
Location: Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Tracker and Di, thanks so much for the replies. Its very helpful just knowing that there are people out there like you who can relate and care. I know there is no magic formula here. I wrote my initial post in a moment of extreme frustration. Its a new day, things look slightly different, and in the end I am confident that everything will work out. Its just so easy to get caught up in the day-to-day and minute-to-minute mini-dramas that life throws at us.
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DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 3959
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I decided last year that we were probably stuck with a system that was going to continue to expect responsibility from my AS son that he is not developmentally ready for. So, we intervene. We sort through his papers with him, check on his supplies, keep in touch with teachers, make sure we know what has been assigned and when it is due, and so on. I have a smart child that is capable of earning A's and B's as long as he has a little assistance, and so we provide that. But there are times we've let him fall, simply because he seems determined to do so at those times, and we're trying to ASSIST, not DO FOR. The goal is to make up the maturity gap, and it is a rather fine line. We figure he is running 2 or 3 years behind in that, and we gauge our expectations on the load he needs to carry accordingly.
So ... if you feel you've filled in the gaps that needed to be filled in, but he seems determined to flunk out, then maybe he needs to do so. Honestly, I don't know if I'd have the stomach for it, and I'd probably cushion the fall anyway, but at some point you do have to recognize that while our kids have difficulties, they do make choices, and when they've make deliberate choices they shouldn't be shielded from the consequences of those choices.
What do you feel your son is capable of? Where do you feel the problem lies?
I will note that my son can do poorly in a class he understands well when the environment is deterimental. Last year he got a "C" in science, his favorite subject, because the class was disorderly, the teacher would penalize the entire class, and so on ... eventually he simply checked out, and pulled the "C" mostly because he pretty much knew the material before. If your son is being frustrated by environmental factors, he may well be tuning out completely in class which, obviously, makes it impossible to learn. Do check out that possibility. I think it happens a lot with AS kids. What would be small frustrations to us grow pretty quickly into full on road blocks for them.
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granatelli
Toucan
Joined: Apr 01, 2009
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: |
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IMO (reading between the lines) your son is failing on purpose. He doesn't see the need or importance to put the effort into it. He just does not give a ****.
It has been my exprience w/my AS stepson (mid 20's) that if he's "into" something, or at least understands the logic behind why he needs to do something, he'll work unbeliveable long and hard at a task to accomplish it. He's a smart kid & can be a very hard worker.
However, if he's not "into" something, thinks it's silly, pointless or illogical (in his mind) then it's like pulling teeth. He can be a master procrastinator. Nothing you can tell him will make him see it in any different light. He "knows" everything, so why should he listen to anyone elses opinion?
What can you do to help your son get through school & into the real world? IMO your best bet will be to stay right on top of the situation & make him accountable for what he does or does not do.
You sound like a reasonable guy. If he was truely trying his best & was fluctuating in the mid low C range I suspect you say, "Well, OK, he's getting by & doing the best he can & I'm OK with that." But that doesn't sound like it's happeneing. I mean, it's almost hard to get (almost) all F's! : ) You think he would get at least a couple of D's & low C's on accident. Really, the teachers want to "push the kids through" if at all possible. He almost has to go out of his way to get all F's.
You should just ask him. "Are you failing on purpose?" Maybe he wants to get out of school. Perhaps a bully problem. Maybe he's just lazy or apathetic. Who knows? But he has to understand if that's the route he wants to take that there will be consequences. Loss of computeer/game or TV time. Being grounded (probably not a very big punishment for a loner), whatever. Make his life a little less pleasant. Pretty soon he will be out there in the big bad world & it won't be as understanding as you.
Good luck Dave. Just remember almost all teenagers (AS or NT) are a PITA to begin with. : ) |
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DenvrDave
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 18, 2009
Age: 44
Posts: 306
Location: Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Part of me feels like granatelli is closest to the truth:
| granatelli wrote: | | ...if he's not "into" something, thinks it's silly, pointless or illogical (in his mind) then it's like pulling teeth. He can be a master procrastinator. Nothing you can tell him will make him see it in any different light. He "knows" everything, so why should he listen to anyone elses opinion?...I mean, it's almost hard to get (almost) all F's! : ) You think he would get at least a couple of D's & low C's on accident...he almost has to go out of his way to get all F's. |
My son is really intelligent, he has an intuitive feel for math and can do the problems in his head. He also loves to read, and devours books he is interested in. I know what he is capable of, and he could pull straight A's if he applied himself.
So part of me really thinks it comes down to motiviation, or lack thereof. But my struggle is, what if I'm wrong and he is not able to be successful in school due to manifestations of his diagnosis? Or what if it is a combination of being slightly unmotivated and challenges like spacing out, not being able to focus, etc.?
Anyway, these have been some great replies and I really appreciate the wonderful support you all are providing. Thank you thank you thank you thank you... 
PS: 200th post!
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AnotherOne
Sea Gull
Joined: Jul 02, 2009
Age: 38
Posts: 217
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave, you can observe him during weekend when he does his homework. If you can make him do the work and learn than it is doable and just a matter of approach. So you either negotiate with the school to make necessary adjustments or homeschool. Honestly sometimes I think the system is more autistic/rigid than the children so good luck to you. |
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granatelli
Toucan
Joined: Apr 01, 2009
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| DenvrDave wrote: | So part of me really thinks it comes down to motiviation, or lack thereof. But my struggle is, what if I'm wrong and he is not able to be successful in school due to manifestations of his diagnosis? Or what if it is a combination of being slightly unmotivated and challenges like spacing out, not being able to focus, etc.?
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Well I think his AS does play a part in this, to be sure. I guess what I would suggest is to make it "worth his while" to focus enough to at least get through high school. In other words, you tell him "Yes school can be a drag sometimes. Yes, you're smart (we know that). And I understand that some of what they are trying to teach you in school does not seem very important right now. But darn it, it's your job right now. This is what is expected of you at this point in your life. I'm not asking for perfection. I'm not saying I'm going to freak out if you have a hard time w/ one of your classes. What I am saying though is you need to get passing grades in all of your classes and if you are having a hard time w/a particular class you need to come to me & we'll tackle it togther. I will get you the help you need. Failure is unacceptable, because you are just too smart to not get it."
Think of it this way. If it was something he cared about (a new video game or whatever he's into) you could be good and darn sure he would not be so forgetful and unattentive.
Hit him where it hurts. Start to reduce his privledges until he gets his act together. Again. It's my opinion that he's failing because he just does not care. Why should he? You are taking care of him. Take away his TV, computer & game boy & see if that gets to him. It's pretty easy to be apathetic if you're living in your parents house. Not so easy if you're living in your own apartment & paying your own way. Hunger has a way of motivating people. And your son isn't [i]that far [/i]from being out on his own. Time to get w/the program.
Good luck! |
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DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 3959
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| granatelli wrote: |
Hit him where it hurts. Start to reduce his privledges until he gets his act together. |
That's a tough one, though, because if you're wrong, it will backfire big time.
Dave, I wish I knew how to tell you how to know which it is, for sure, but I don't. I can only suggest that you keep talking to him, and really listening, and reading between the lines. Sell him on why he needs to care; how these skills will be useful. Watch for hidden roadblocks. THEN push.
This part of the discussion reminds me of a story my father told, when my son was young. Apparently my father had INTENTIONALLY flunked a grade in elementary school, because he was smaller than the other kids and figured he would "fit in" better with a younger group. He told the story because he was worried seeing how small our son was, and remembering how strongly that upset him at that age. He never told his parents this, and that was the first time my mom had heard it, as well. You never know a kid's hidden agenda. It took him almost 70 years to tell anyone. We do believe my dad was AS, btw, although never diagnosed.
I'm not looking forward to the teen years. Right now my son still WANTS to please us, and that makes solving these things soooo much easier. We know that his games against our goals aren't that deep, so we get pretty close to knowing what the truth is, PROVIDED we pay attention.
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Last edited by DW_a_mom on Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EaglesSayMeow
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Nov 02, 2009
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Well, I'm sure people have said this already, but as a 13-year-old who suspects she has AS, this sounds remarkably similar to me. In classes where I care, I do great, and get As in every single test. In classes I really don't care about, either because I find it pointless or I dislike the teacher, I tend to get in the C range, since I simply don't care. Try and explain to your son how getting good grades could help him in something he does care about. My mom pointed out that if I failed English, History, Music, Art, and PE, I probably wouldn't get into Brown or MIT (where I could learn interesting stuff about computers)
Granted, I still "forgot" my homework in music class even when it was right in my backpack simply to spite the teacher. Come to think of it, that could be a problem too. Does he have any problems with the teachers? |
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schleppenheimer
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 01, 2006
Posts: 1268
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: |
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This topic REALLY concerns me, as we are battling the same thing with our 13 year old. On the other hand, it concerns me because I worry for our boys (and girls) who are on the spectrum. They often don't really understand exactly WHY they aren't doing well either, sometimes -- at least with my son, he can't specify WHY he forgets to ask about assignments, WHY he isn't listening in class, WHY he's doing poorly in a class he loves. He wants to do well, and he actually is doing pretty well -- it's the responsibility side of things -- our parental fear that when we are no longer there to "catch" everything, our children will fail and be miserable and unhappy.
I keep thinking that there is some magic "system" out there that will "click" with my son, and suddenly he will be able to handle life on his own. After all, he can handle life on his own in other ways -- he can cook for himself, can do his own laundry, takes care of the dog, etc. But all of the responsibilities of school -- that's a totally different thing. Granted, this year he has had this "perfect storm" situation where he is three years behind in maturity, 8th grade is where they pile up the homework, tests, and expectations in preparation for high school, and he has grown and gained weight so his meds aren't working as well.
Would lists help? New ways of organizing the binder? Finding something to hang out there, like a "carrot", to help motivate? At this stage, my son NEVER gets to play video games except for a little time on the weekends, because he is so swamped with school work and responsibilities. We couldn't even use video games as a motivation even if we wanted to. He does have a friend in the neighborhood that he likes to do stuff with, and that has turned into a natural motivation to finish homework -- the trouble is, he finishes, but does a less-than-stellar job on the homework, and so much of it has to be redone later in the day.
Some of us can't imagine our children finishing high school -- some of us can't see how they can ever accomplish what they need to in college. I think that a lot of the problem is that we have this flip-flopping diagnosis . . . one day, we hear that our child is on the autism spectrum, and our hopes for them are diminished. Then we realize that they are Asperger's or high-functioning autism, and we feel like there's some hope. Then as we battle the school problems, we waffle between feeling like life for them is going to be ok, and then worrying that life for them is going to be miserable. It's the not-knowing that is so difficult, I think. |
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DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 3959
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| EaglesSayMeow wrote: |
Granted, I still "forgot" my homework in music class even when it was right in my backpack simply to spite the teacher. Come to think of it, that could be a problem too. Does he have any problems with the teachers? |
I really appreciate your posting, because its motivations like this one that tend to stay hidden from parents. Is there anything a parent could do to find out about something like that? Have you ever told your parents? Can you imagine telling your parents? I would want to know, if my son was doing that. OK, my response would be a bit stunned at how the spite ends up only hurting yourself, but it is defintely something I would want to talk about with my child, if he was thinking this way. I KNOW he does get ideas like this in his head, but we rarely know about them, and that is a huge barrier to effectively helping him.
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DW_a_mom
Ignoring the To-Do List
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 3959
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| schleppenheimer wrote: |
I think that a lot of the problem is that we have this flip-flopping diagnosis . . . one day, we hear that our child is on the autism spectrum, and our hopes for them are diminished. Then we realize that they are Asperger's or high-functioning autism, and we feel like there's some hope. Then as we battle the school problems, we waffle between feeling like life for them is going to be ok, and then worrying that life for them is going to be miserable. It's the not-knowing that is so difficult, I think. |
Interesting observation. I think it ties a lot to where on the spectrum you see your child, and how strong his gifts v. weaknesses are, and how every day useful. I kind of feel my son is lucky on all that, but I worry a lot about happiness - if he has the talents to reach his dreams, or if that is going to really beat him down.
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EaglesSayMeow
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Nov 02, 2009
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| For me, it was because I was doing recorder, and my teacher for the past two years was a good teacher, and knew how to play well, and plus, was just good at noticing things like if I (I was the only person taking it that year) was getting bored with the same thing over and over and over, or if I needed to learn more. The next year, I soon realized that the teacher herself had just learned how to play. Plus, I'd been taking it for a year longer than everyone else so I didn't learn anything. And, the biggest reason I just tried to bother her was that I didn't respect her. I checked in the yearbook after a few weeks. Last year, she had been something like assistant to the head of the school. She was, in other words, a secretary. My logic was that if my school can't bother to get me a teacher (and the two other kids that year) then why should I bother to learn? |
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