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Ahaseurus2000
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 765
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
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 Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:02 am Post subject: Religion, Faith, and Cult: Differences? |
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What differences are there between a Religion and a Cult? also, are there differences between Faith and these, and are there differences between Faith as present in a Religion, and Faith as present in a Cult?
Here in NZ, there was a scandal with a religious group called the Exclusive Brethren. Some commentators state the group is a cult.
Recently in a Group called Destiny Church, 700 male members swore an "oath of loyalty" to the leader, self-appointed Bishop Brian Tamaki. The Group has caused past controversy with an intimidating Political Rally and one claim that they'd be ruling the country in 10 years time. At the least I regard a "cult of personality" to be present and centred on Bishop Tamaki.
Details on the Oath of Loyalty:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10605956
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10606344 |
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zer0netgain
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Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Posts: 1350
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Faith is a system of beliefs.
Religion is an organization founded on a particular faith.
Cults can be religions that dominate its members with intimidation and other "control" factors...denying them independent thought or free will. Cults don't always have to involve religious systems, but they typically take something (a political cause, for example) and essentially elevate it to the status of a religion in the minds of their followers (i.e., environmentalism). |
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ruveyn
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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A religion is a cult that has outlived its founder. For example, the Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormon Church).
ruveyn |
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Tim_Tex
Bunnies!!!
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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How does that explain $cientology then? Crazy Ron has been gone since 1986.
Yet, in Texas, many people believe that anything that isn't Southern Baptist is a cult.
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pezar
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Age: 34
Posts: 666
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Religion, Faith, and Cult: Differences? |
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| Ahaseurus2000 wrote: | What differences are there between a Religion and a Cult? also, are there differences between Faith and these, and are there differences between Faith as present in a Religion, and Faith as present in a Cult?
Here in NZ, there was a scandal with a religious group called the Exclusive Brethren. Some commentators state the group is a cult.
Recently in a Group called Destiny Church, 700 male members swore an "oath of loyalty" to the leader, self-appointed Bishop Brian Tamaki. The Group has caused past controversy with an intimidating Political Rally and one claim that they'd be ruling the country in 10 years time. At the least I regard a "cult of personality" to be present and centred on Bishop Tamaki.
Details on the Oath of Loyalty:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10605956
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10606344 |
I believe that the main concern with Destiny Church's aggressiveness is the fact that they are large compared to the total population of NZ-the church has some 7,000 members. You can go to http://www.rickross.com/ which is a cult tracking website and read the few articles they have collected on Tamaki and Destiny Church. When the Mormons were in Illinois in the 1840s and Joseph Smith declared that he wanted to conquer the country starting with that state, the non-Mormon populace rebelled because due to the church's numbers-Nauvoo was the state's second largest city-they had a very real chance of tipping the state towards Mormon rule. It sounds like NZ is in a similar position with Tamaki's cult. In the US, these cults are so small compared to a diverse and large population that there's no chance that any one could conquer the country. A 7,000 member church here is a quite typical "megachurch", with there being at least a dozen in a city of any size. Even in the 1960s there was virtually no possibility that any cult, not even Scientology or any of the pseudo-Marxist groups, could take over.
To answer your question, a cult is usually devoted towards the glorification of one man to the exclusion of having a definable theology. If there is an attempt at a theology, it's so wacky or convoluted that it serves as a fig leaf for worshipping a single man. Christianity has a real theology; Scientology and Mormonism do not. Mormonism especially is still, even today, largely centered around Joseph Smith and on giving one's money to the church to the exclusion of providing for one's own needs. Tamaki likewise is the focus of his cult, and he insists on a 10% tithe even if it means that the follower goes without. If the church insists that you worship a human being and that you give all of your money to him, it's a cult. |
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protest_the_hero
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim_Tex wrote: |
Yet, in Texas, many people believe that anything that isn't Southern Baptist is a cult. |
Southern Baptist is a cult.
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ruveyn
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Age: 73
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Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| protest_the_hero wrote: | | Tim_Tex wrote: |
Yet, in Texas, many people believe that anything that isn't Southern Baptist is a cult. |
Southern Baptist is a cult. |
Unfortunately it is a religion. It has been around too long to be a cult. And it does not have a guru urging the troops to prepare kool-aide.
ruveyn |
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ThatRedHairedGrrl
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Location: Walking through a shopping mall listening to Half Japanese on headphones
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: |
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My definitions, from what I've observed:
A religion is a (more or less) organized body of people who believe in the same spiritual ideas.
A faith is a religion that people of other religions recognize as having its own validity in the world. Generally one that's been going a long time and has a large number of followers.
A cult is a spiritual group (usually, but not always, of recent origin and numerically small) in which followers are manipulated into absolute obedience to the demands of the group leader, often breaking contact with families, friends and the outside world, giving over all or part of their money and property, forced into behavior that conflicts with their former moral code, and threatened if and when they want to break away.
That said, as Tim_Tex rightly points out, there are some members of mainstream religions whose definition of 'cult' means 'anything that isn't us'. Or 'any spiritual belief we happen not to like'.
I used to live close to a cathedral city where the local Anglican bishop had organized an Interfaith conference, and there was a ruckus when some of the Christians found that a couple of Wiccan delegates had been invited. They'd happily meet and talk with Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs, but Wiccans were a 'dangerous cult', not a proper religion. In the event, the Wiccans gracefully withdrew, but I remember the bishop in the local paper saying that it wasn't their fault they'd had to pull out and he felt bad about it on their behalf.
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ChrisHitchens
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Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Faith= belief in something you can't prove
Religion= being told what to believe by others
Cult=being told who you will or won't have sex with. If you're an attractive young woman, chances are you're going to be one of the cult leader's many sex toys.
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showman616
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Joined: Feb 09, 2009
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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chrishitchens- was the first poster to correctly define "faith".
The other definitions are basically correct as well.
Faith- is just that- belief in something you cant prove.
Religion- a group who have the same ideas about the supernatural. Beliefs that involve faith.
So the phrase "a faith" is synonomous with "a religion". But 'faith" is not synonomous with word "religion".
cult- can be either religous or secular- a group hermetically sealed off from the rest of the world- unquestioningly loyal to one leader. Being in a cult also takes faith.
So both religions and cults could be called "faiths"- I suppose. |
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Ahaseurus2000
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Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 765
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| so a cult always involves a "cult of personality"? Though presence of "cult of personality" does not always mean a cult exists (e.g. Stalin). |
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Mainichi
Snowy Owl
Joined: Aug 09, 2009
Posts: 133
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | A religion is a cult that has outlived its founder. For example, the Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormon Church).
ruveyn |
You are right about the Mormon Church, being a cult. I used to be a Mormon, and stopped going in high school. I never like church and knew it was a cult since I was 7. They except members to pay 10% of over annual income to the church. The church collects tithing once a month. The church has a tithing settlement at the end of the year. The Mormons require (yes, it is required) that members attending a meeting with the bishop at the end of the year to state, on the record, if they have paid a full tithe. If you have not, for any reason, you will be lectured on the need to repent and come back into compliance with the law of tithing. They make members do it, so they can get into the temple and make into the celestial kingdom. I wish that I could convince my parents to quit the church.
The Mormon church is a 11+ million member church that is worth billions of dollars(50 Billion and counting} that they steal from members. They use it for multi-million dollar temples, shopping malls, TV/radio stations and cattle ranches in Florida and Nebraska, and various other business things etc....
Oh, they do help out poor members. In order to receive any assistance from the Bishop’s Storehouse(food bank}, a member in financial difficulty must first be declared a “full tithe payer". I could go on more about the church, I leave it to another day. |
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Asmodeus
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Joined: Feb 25, 2009
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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A religion is a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny. It can also be a system involving this/these.
A faith is a religion.
A cult is a religion that has yet to be large (or popular) enough to be accepted as one (in most developed nations by it's government, but in other places this is essentially decided by it's people). In the eyes of a cultist, their cult is usually already considered a religion.
Last edited by Asmodeus on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Asmodeus
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Posts: 783
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahaseurus2000 wrote: | | so a cult always involves a "cult of personality"? Though presence of "cult of personality" does not always mean a cult exists (e.g. Stalin). |
In that case it's having a personality (through words or media) that generates a following comparable to religion.
Faith no more are pretty cool too. |
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psychointegrator
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Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ChrisHitchens wrote: | Faith= belief in something you can't prove
Religion= being told what to believe by others
Cult=being told who you will or won't have sex with. If you're an attractive young woman, chances are you're going to be one of the cult leader's many sex toys. |
Your definition of cult describes Christianity and Islam. |
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