KenM
an i mal
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Age: 45
Posts: 1547
Location: Mass. USA
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 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Spokane_Girl wrote: | | KenM wrote: | I have AS. That means I take things literly. So if someone says to me "I just want to be friends" I think that is what they really mean, not that they are not interested at all. People need to say what they mean and mean what they say.
So excuse me if I am suposted to know what women really want when they say one thing and mean the total oppisite.  |
*sigh*
You know full well what that means now. People have told you what women mean by "lets be friends" but you choose to take it literal. That's not the AS because you full well know what it means now because you have been informed. Even I know what it means after reading about it here. |
Yes after reading posts on here I know what it means. Its code for meaning "I want nothing to do with you" put in a nice way so you don't feel bad yourself when you put someone down. Instead of just coming out and saying what you are really feeling they choose to disrespect you and lie to your face even after I tell them to please give me the truth.
It does not mean I have to like it. If they choose not to respect me after I asked them to tell me the truth and they still lie to me, then I don't have to respect them. Good ridence. |
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polymathpoolplayer
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| HH wrote: | | Anything else is dishonest, yes. But your expectations are unreasonable in the light of what these women are facing. They have to endlessly guess what response will least likely respond in violence or stalking or both. They are doing the best they can to survive. Their safety is more important than being honest with you. |
So in essence what you're saying is that most men, if faced with the truth of the fear the women is feeling, plus the truth that her desire to say whatever she might just to get rid of him is ok, would become violent and stalkerish?
Or are you saying that most men who are rejected become violent and/or stalkerish if they find out they were lied to as the reason why no contact is wanted?
Or are you saying she has a right to lie no matter the circumstances, that her fear (inappropriate or misplaced as it may be) justified hurting him by lying, and that in effect his feelings are of no import whatsoever?
Or are you saying that women incorrectly perceive all rejected men as potentially violent/potential stalkers?
If any of these represent your opinion I sure hope you don't represent women in general because if so we are doomed.
Me I am the truly nice guy who respects women's right to say no for whatever reason EXCEPT lying in so doing.
And YES, she owes it to him to tell him IF he makes her feel scared - so he can IMPROVE OR LOGICALLY REBUT IT |
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polymathpoolplayer
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| HH wrote: | | LePetitPrince wrote: | | HH is representing women as if they have some kind of mind-reading power |
ROFL. Nope, I've been arguing the opposite. OMGROFL.
Everything I've been saying comes from the premise that women can't read men's minds. Therefore they can't tell which ones will go violent or stalker-y on them. So to get by and stay alive, they have to guess. There are certain cues that reliably indicate a greater likelihood of violent behavior. It's not rational to treat men who give off those cues the same as you treat others. You have no way of knowing whether any one of them will do something scary, but you do know the probability is higher than that of the general population, so it'd be stupid not to treat them as dangerous.
Further, because women can't read minds, they can't tell which responses to a scary dude are most likely to let them get away unscathed. They have to just make their best guess and go with it. |
The irony being that most successful mass murdering men are quite charming, so armed with that knowledge if I were a woman I'd be inclined to think that whoever I was scared of (short of a knife-wielding maniac on PCP) probably was NOT violent just awkward, and that on the contrary the most charming man of all probably WAS dangerous, with evil intentions, because he is a sociopath who knows how to play you, the Sodinis of the world notwithstanding. |
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polymathpoolplayer
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| HH wrote: | | KenM wrote: | | Most of the women I get interested in romantically I have been friends with for some time. It just happens I develop deeper feelings for them and I let them know. |
This smacks of a bs attempt to make your behavior sound different from what it is, given that you referred to these situations as you having been "trying for months". |
Put a cork on it he is sounding suicidal. do not argue under such circumstances it makes you look like a fool |
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polymathpoolplayer
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| ManErg wrote: | | HH wrote: | | There are certain cues that reliably indicate a greater likelihood of violent behavior. It's not rational to treat men who give off those cues the same as you treat others. |
Actually, that's not true. At least with regard to the really nasty body part chopping serial killer types. These people (Ted Bundy being a famous example, John Wayne Gacy, Charles Sobhraj, also Charles Manson etc ) are usually *very* charismatic.
What you are describing is a *wish* for the how the world should be, a wish that makes us feel comfortable. In reality..it is somewhat different, or violence would be so easy to avoid and not endemic.
It is true that most people have a definite idea of how a violent killer or sexual abuser would *look* or the impression they would give on meeting. However, that idea is grossly inaccurate. One often hears the phrase "but he seemed so normal" when those people are caught.
I believe it likely that there are people unfortunate enough that despite being decent, non-violent, all round good people at heart, some physical feature beyond their control can trigger 'false warnings' in others. Especially when it appears most of us place far too much faith on our ability to glean psychological information from others based on their appearance (including body language).
And perhaps after being treated with suspicion for a few years, they start to get a little hmm.. 'bitter'. It in no way means they are violent, but this is little help when everyone else believes you are different to what you really are thanks to their super-spidey infallible psycho sense  |
QFT or HQP, whatever you call it. |
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hale_bopp
All Kinds of Freak
Joined: Nov 03, 2004
Age: 28
Posts: 14837
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:09 am Post subject: |
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Ken, sometimes its very hard for women to be friends with men they've rejected because the men take it very badly, and they have no choice but to cut them off to help them get over it.
| KenM wrote: | | HH how old are you? I'm 41, never been on a date or had a LTR. I have been trying all my life since I was 17 or so to find someone. Everyone rejects me. Its hard not to be resentful when for almost 25 years all you have known is rejection and I hear the same reasons time after time. I try to change and adapt but I still get rejected so I don't know what to do anymore. I know someday I will kill myself over not having anyone and no one giving me a chance. |
IIRC you've made threads about previous Girlfriends you've had, how people have kissed you and how you went on two dates with someone.
Also ages ago you made a thread about a woman you were having casual sex with on a regular basis. So what you said there is either a lie or a contridiction.
A lot of people have never even had those. They haven't had anything. I'm not saying you don't have a right to complain, but for someone who complains about liars its not very cool to blatently lie yourself.
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Admiral_Awesome
Emu Egg
Joined: Nov 04, 2009
Age: 26
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:15 am Post subject: Re: Signs of the "not potential partner"-zone. |
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| LePetitPrince wrote: | Here are the signs I noticed of the "not potential partner"-zone or what most guys like to call it here the "friends" zone:
1- When she talks to you about her pms/period : Girls usually don't talk about such "private" things in front the guys they like.
2- When she talks about other guys' attractive qualities or when she makes obvious reactions toward some attractive qualities in other guys.
3- When you and her don't make a physically typical couple (some typical models: The guy is taller than the girl , guy's shoulders wider than the girl's, well-fit guy and well-fit girl, fat guy and fat girl, ...etc) : if you are shorter or thinner than the girl , or way fatter than the girl , or too uglier than the girl then you are less likely to be a potential partner and she's more likely to throw you into the "zone".
4- When she brings her female friends to your place or any other place you hang out with.
5- If you are younger or the same age of her : not a sign, but you are more likely to fall in the zone in that case.
6- If you are of another religion/faith/belief : it's true where I live at least.
7- If she's popular: they get fans all the time , so the zoning way is an effective filtering strategy.
8- You are poorer than her :obvious evolutionary reason.
9- When she talks/phones/chats to you only when she needs a favor: A small advice in that case, RUN! |
didn't read the thread, but (from my own experiences with girls both who didn't care about me "like that" and those who do)
1) my girlfriend does this all the time. Invalid.
2) This is solid for girls who you are not currently past 1st base on. If there's a girl who you've been with who does this, it might be the result of her "indirectly" telling you what she finds attractive, or what she thinks could make YOU more attractive. Pay attention to this either way.
3) meh at this, I guess I see what you mean, though.
4) This is also solid if you haven't done anything before. As a corollary, if a girl goes out of her way to turn a "alone" activity into a group activity, just give up.
5) Bullcrap. I am 22, my girlfriend of 2 years is 25.
6) This is true for anyone, really. Religion is one of those things that is a lot more important to "match" on that most people think.
7) I thought Aspies didn't really like popular people? This might just be my personal bias, though. It's a valid point either way.
 This is again true for most cases. If you are poor, you should be worrying a LOT more about making money than finding partners.
9) Amazingly true. A girl who likes you as more than an "emotional tampon" will talk to you by choice a lot more often. If this isn't the case, but you're willing to listen to her problems, holy sh** watch out. If the latter, I highly recommend not talking to her at all.
I'm a bit drunk so take this advice as you will. OP is pretty solid but a bit misguided in spots imo. |
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Homer_Bob
Bazinga!
Joined: Jan 06, 2009
Age: 24
Posts: 1286
Location: New England
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| I always notice with me that girls tend to like me, but they always say "I will find someone", or that "I'll make a girl happy someday" as someone once told me a while ago. What good are those comments when they are talking about someone else. That's how I know I have no chance with someone, when they talk to me about finding someone ELSE and not them. |
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HH
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 29, 2009
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| polymathpoolplayer wrote: | | HH wrote: | | Anything else is dishonest, yes. But your expectations are unreasonable in the light of what these women are facing. They have to endlessly guess what response will least likely respond in violence or stalking or both. They are doing the best they can to survive. Their safety is more important than being honest with you. |
So in essence what you're saying is that most men, if faced with the truth of the fear the women is feeling, plus the truth that her desire to say whatever she might just to get rid of him is ok, would become violent and stalkerish? |
Nope, if you read all of what I wrote instead of cherry-picking, that's clearly not it.
| Quote: | | Or are you saying that most men who are rejected become violent and/or stalkerish if they find out they were lied to as the reason why no contact is wanted? |
That's quite obviously not it either.
| Quote: | | Or are you saying she has a right to lie no matter the circumstances, that her fear (inappropriate or misplaced as it may be) justified hurting him by lying, and that in effect his feelings are of no import whatsoever? |
That's sort of close. It's not her fear that makes lying ok, it's the well-substantiated facts of the ubiquity of male-on-female violence in our society. Her safety and her best efforts to stay alive are far more important than some cranky dude's fee-fees. If you don't like that, take it up with the guys who wreck it for the rest of you by being violent.
| Quote: | | Or are you saying that women incorrectly perceive all rejected men as potentially violent/potential stalkers? |
Quite obviously not. You're just being silly here.
| Quote: | | Me I am the truly nice guy who respects women's right to say no for whatever reason EXCEPT lying in so doing. |
And that makes you one of the very scary creepy guys that women should be suspicious of. Thinking your feelings are more important than another's attempts to just survive makes you a pretty nasty character.
| Quote: | | And YES, she owes it to him to tell him IF he makes her feel scared - so he can IMPROVE OR LOGICALLY REBUT IT |
Wow, that is one of the most beautiful examples of "this guy is bad news -- stay away" that I've ever seen. |
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HH
Deinonychus
Joined: Oct 29, 2009
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| polymathpoolplayer wrote: | | The irony being that most successful mass murdering men are quite charming, so armed with that knowledge if I were a woman I'd be inclined to think that whoever I was scared of (short of a knife-wielding maniac on PCP) probably was NOT violent just awkward, and that on the contrary the most charming man of all probably WAS dangerous, with evil intentions, because he is a sociopath who knows how to play you, the Sodinis of the world notwithstanding. |
Sheesh guys, learn to read, or read up on what a strawman logical fallacy is. C'mon, we're Aspies here, not committing logical fallacies comes easier to us than to anybody. |
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WhiskeyInTheJar
Blue Jay
Joined: Oct 24, 2009
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| HH wrote: | | polymathpoolplayer wrote: | | The irony being that most successful mass murdering men are quite charming, so armed with that knowledge if I were a woman I'd be inclined to think that whoever I was scared of (short of a knife-wielding maniac on PCP) probably was NOT violent just awkward, and that on the contrary the most charming man of all probably WAS dangerous, with evil intentions, because he is a sociopath who knows how to play you, the Sodinis of the world notwithstanding. |
Sheesh guys, learn to read, or read up on what a strawman logical fallacy is. C'mon, we're Aspies here, not committing logical fallacies comes easier to us than to anybody. |
LOL, 
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"God is dead". Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead". God |
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