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IMForeman
Raven
Joined: Oct 05, 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 107
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 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I was interested to read lately that Martin Luthor (not King, the one who laid the groundwork for Protestantism) felt a child displaying autistic symptoms was an empty husk animated by Satan and recommended strangulation.
Peace and love, guys lol |
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jdcaldwell
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 29, 2009
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Azharia wrote: | | Perhaps it is easier for her to accept that there is something wrong with him taht can be fixed by something as easy and fast as "laying on hands" than to accept that he is just different and no less for it? |
I thought the same thing when she called me.
I just wanted to clarify, i'm not confused because I think it's a possibility that he's possesed, I'm mostly confused with how to react and/or deal with this.
I've always thought of my son as a wonderful gift, and while his AS does cause different challenges, it's part of what makes him who he is, and without it, he would be somone different. And it hurts me that someone, especially my own mother would look think he has some "evil" that needs to be cast out. |
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Nightsun
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 24, 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 376
Location: Rome - Italy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Asperger, red-haired, ambidestrous, born out of wedding, born on holy friday, I can go long.. my grandma told "it's born the antichrist", I lolled too hard.
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Planes are tested by how well they fly, not by comparing them to birds. |
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Azharia
Deinonychus
Joined: Jan 05, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 334
Location: Cork, Ireland
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| jdcaldwell wrote: |
I've always thought of my son as a wonderful gift, and while his AS does cause different challenges, it's part of what makes him who he is, and without it, he would be somone different. |
Sounds like he has a great parent to make up for anything his grandparent may think...  |
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mgran
Phoenix
Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 662
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| IMForeman wrote: | Well I'm going to be blunt here, for the good of your son.
Religious people used to burn people alive because they didn't fit into their worldview. Think about that. Deeply. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live remember?
This is a human thing and it never really goes away. Dislike of the unlike is deeply ingrained in human beings. Just think rationally about this. Do you really believe your child is the way he is because of demons? Really? Why should he be gifted and sweet and honest in many ways if that's true?
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Excuse me, I think you're right, "this is a human thing, and never really goes away." Stalin and Mao Tse Tung were not religious, they were in fact atheist. Read up on their genocidal ways. How much do you know about China's current human rights record, for that matter. How about asking the followers of Falun Gong how they are treated in an athiest system. (See, I'm not singling out Christians as victims of persecution.)
Also, I'm really surprised that you should ask the OP "Do you really believe your child is the way he is because of demons? Really?"
OBVIOUSLY the OP doesn't think that! Did you read her post? She's a Christian, yes, and she's a MOTHER, who loves her son, and is deeply offended by the suggestion he's possessed. How on earth can you ask her that deeply offensive rhetorical question, when it's so clear that she doesn't think her son is possessed at all. I think she's had enough to upset her without a kneejerk response like that one.
To the OP... the rest of us know that you don't think that your son is possessed. If someone had suggested such a thing about me, I'd be very upset. I hope you do come back to this topic.
Oh, by the way, isn't this forum meant to exist for parents to discuss their children, not for people to make unwarranted insinuations? |
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IMForeman
Raven
Joined: Oct 05, 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| mgran wrote: | | IMForeman wrote: | Well I'm going to be blunt here, for the good of your son.
Religious people used to burn people alive because they didn't fit into their worldview. Think about that. Deeply. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live remember?
This is a human thing and it never really goes away. Dislike of the unlike is deeply ingrained in human beings. Just think rationally about this. Do you really believe your child is the way he is because of demons? Really? Why should he be gifted and sweet and honest in many ways if that's true?
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Excuse me, I think you're right, "this is a human thing, and never really goes away." Stalin and Mao Tse Tung were not religious, they were in fact atheist. Read up on their genocidal ways. How much do you know about China's current human rights record, for that matter. How about asking the followers of Falun Gong how they are treated in an athiest system. (See, I'm not singling out Christians as victims of persecution.)
Also, I'm really surprised that you should ask the OP "Do you really believe your child is the way he is because of demons? Really?"
OBVIOUSLY the OP doesn't think that! Did you read her post? She's a Christian, yes, and she's a MOTHER, who loves her son, and is deeply offended by the suggestion he's possessed. How on earth can you ask her that deeply offensive rhetorical question, when it's so clear that she doesn't think her son is possessed at all. I think she's had enough to upset her without a kneejerk response like that one.
To the OP... the rest of us know that you don't think that your son is possessed. If someone had suggested such a thing about me, I'd be very upset. I hope you do come back to this topic.
Oh, by the way, isn't this forum meant to exist for parents to discuss their children, not for people to make unwarranted insinuations? |
You didn't get my point. My point is that religious and non religious people can do horrible things. As I clearly pointed out, even the gospels have the religious authorities of the day questioning if Christ "has a demon" because of his unusual teachings.
I clearly stated I did not seek to demonize religious people and that tyranny and oppression of the different happens across the board. It's dislike of the unlike.
What I wanted to get across was that religion doesn't prevent people doing terrible things and we should think rationally about issues without getting swept up into emotional causes. |
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CRD
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 07, 2009
Age: 32
Posts: 615
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think your going to but I just have to say. DO NOT repeat DO NOT let them lay hands ect on your little boy. Even if they don't hurt his body they will scar his mind. The best thing I think you an do if find a good book explaining what asperger's is and send it to your mother. If she wants to help in other ways like buying him a learning toy that would help with what ever area he's struggling in at the moment would be fine. I don't think I'd let her be alone with him for along time just incase too many of these storys of end with a dead child not one that is austism free. Best of luck and much love while you deal with this craziness in your family. |
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irishwhistle
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 01, 2006
Age: 37
Posts: 690
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Another Christian here. I bet you're as sick as I am of extremists making the rest of us look like nuts. Just about any religion you can name suffers from that, sadly. For every Mother Theresa there seems to be a whole Spanish Inquisition (trying to resist quoting the Monty Python here).
I agree with the suggestion (I think someone suggested it, I read a lot and it's muddled me rather) that she can't accept it as something that has to be dealt with rather than something that can be fixed quickly. The commonness of this way of thinking is reflected in the sheer number of people who immediately medicate their child who has been diagnosed with ADHD. It's the same thing... Not wanting to deal with it.
I don't think there's a sin a parent can commit before a child is born that can make a child one way or another. Of course there are things in life that can happen to harm a child, to affect them mentally or physically. But the sin of a parent isn't answered upon an innocent child. That wouldn't answer the ends of justice. But I'm preachin' to the choir on that one, I know.
I think loving acceptance is a far more worthwhile Christian value to follow... I wish your mom would go that route. Another thing that is believed in the branch of Christianity of which I am a member, at least, is that we have all come to earth to prove ourselves against the obstacles and adversity that face each of us. We each get our own challenges, which, as hard as they seem, are never more than we can handle if we are faithful... meaning that faith will help us in our weakness, and faith and hard work can make our weaknesses become strengths. And the idea that everyone should be the same is dead wrong. If everyone around us is just like us, and we never have problems, we don't have much opportunity to grow.
And we believe that we accepted these terms before we came here, even shouted for joy when we found out we'd have the opportunity.
And Nightsun... I'm pretty sure Oprah Winfrey is the Antichrist. If you've ever watched her show and the drooling adulation of her fans, hanging upon her every word, fall over themselves to agree with her, swaying to follow her littlest gesture... You'd see what I mean. I think the magazine with her picture on EVERY cover was the last straw. Yeah, I know her name's one it. I think that makes it worse.
I joke... mostly. She is insufferable and way too influential, that much is certain. But I'd admire her struggle to succeed if she hadn't totally lost sight of where she started ($200 for one outfit? Oh, that's a bargain!). But I wander far off topic.
I wish I knew how to deal with it. I guess the suggestion that you mention how many kids with autism were born in wedlock is the most solid argument you could make. In the end, of course you know, you've always got the fact that you're his mother, not her. She's choosing a tense and uneasy road, but you needn't walk it with her... as hard as it may be to deal with watching her walk it, and as mad as she may be that you won't go along. Even if they gave him their little blessing (I assume that's all they had in mind, just a prayer of sorts) you'd have to hear the next accusatory explanation for his condition when it didn't work.
Yes, you're right. It's very frustrating! 
_________________
"Pack up my head, I'm goin' to Paris!" - P.W.
The world loves diversity... as long as it's pretty, makes them look smart and doesn't put them out in any way.
There's the road, and the road less traveled, and then there's MY road. |
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mgran
Phoenix
Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 662
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| IMForeman wrote: |
You didn't get my point. My point is that religious and non religious people can do horrible things. As I clearly pointed out, even the gospels have the religious authorities of the day questioning if Christ "has a demon" because of his unusual teachings.
I clearly stated I did not seek to demonize religious people and that tyranny and oppression of the different happens across the board. It's dislike of the unlike.
What I wanted to get across was that religion doesn't prevent people doing terrible things and we should think rationally about issues without getting swept up into emotional causes. |
Okay... but you have to admit that your rhetorical question made it appear as though you thought the mother concerned needed you to set her straight. "Do you really believe your child is the way he is because of demons? Really? Why should he be gifted and sweet and honest in many ways if that's true? " You've got to admit that by directing this rhetoric at the OP it looks as though you are correcting her faulty assumptions, rather than her mothers.
Since that wasn't the intent, I apologise for misunderstanding you. I'm an aspie mum of an aspie myself, so it's understandable that I'm sensitive to perceived criticism. But I still think the above quoted sentence used the wrong personal pronoun. Instead of "do you really believe..." why couldn't you say, "does your Mum really believe..."
Then you wouldn't have appeared as though you were berating the OP for something she never did believe.
Do you understand where the miscommunication arose? |
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IMForeman
Raven
Joined: Oct 05, 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| mgran wrote: | | IMForeman wrote: |
You didn't get my point. My point is that religious and non religious people can do horrible things. As I clearly pointed out, even the gospels have the religious authorities of the day questioning if Christ "has a demon" because of his unusual teachings.
I clearly stated I did not seek to demonize religious people and that tyranny and oppression of the different happens across the board. It's dislike of the unlike.
What I wanted to get across was that religion doesn't prevent people doing terrible things and we should think rationally about issues without getting swept up into emotional causes. |
Okay... but you have to admit that your rhetorical question made it appear as though you thought the mother concerned needed you to set her straight. "Do you really believe your child is the way he is because of demons? Really? Why should he be gifted and sweet and honest in many ways if that's true? " You've got to admit that by directing this rhetoric at the OP it looks as though you are correcting her faulty assumptions, rather than her mothers.
Since that wasn't the intent, I apologise for misunderstanding you. I'm an aspie mum of an aspie myself, so it's understandable that I'm sensitive to perceived criticism. But I still think the above quoted sentence used the wrong personal pronoun. Instead of "do you really believe..." why couldn't you say, "does your Mum really believe..."
Then you wouldn't have appeared as though you were berating the OP for something she never did believe.
Do you understand where the miscommunication arose? |
Yes. But I got the feeling she herself was on the verge of believing her Preist/mother. If so, I saw it as my duty to stick up for a fellow autie. And that's something I will always do.
The problem is not religion, but damaging beliefs. Something those atheistic communists you mentioned certainly had. |
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mgran
Phoenix
Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 662
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:25 am Post subject: |
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I didn't get the feeling that she thought her son was possessed at all. It seemed to me that she was responding just as you or I, or any sane individual would... hands up in the air in gobsmacked amazement that anyone could be so deluded!
Personally, I like the feedback someone made earlier on this thread, and I'm sure you agree, that autism is often a gift, and in less crowded times auties were the mystics, artists and inventors. We see the world differently, and I think that's a good and very necessary thing.
Anyway... peace. I think we understand each other now. |
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IMForeman
Raven
Joined: Oct 05, 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| mgran wrote: | I didn't get the feeling that she thought her son was possessed at all. It seemed to me that she was responding just as you or I, or any sane individual would... hands up in the air in gobsmacked amazement that anyone could be so deluded!
Personally, I like the feedback someone made earlier on this thread, and I'm sure you agree, that autism is often a gift, and in less crowded times auties were the mystics, artists and inventors. We see the world differently, and I think that's a good and very necessary thing.
Anyway... peace. I think we understand each other now. |
Ahhh that clears things up in that case. Thanks. |
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jdcaldwell
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 29, 2009
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| IMForeman wrote: |
Yes. But I got the feeling she herself was on the verge of believing her Preist/mother. If so, I saw it as my duty to stick up for a fellow autie. And that's something I will always do.
The problem is not religion, but damaging beliefs. Something those atheistic communists you mentioned certainly had. |
I probably could have phrased my original post a little better |
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jdcaldwell
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: May 29, 2009
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mgran wrote: | I didn't get the feeling that she thought her son was possessed at all. It seemed to me that she was responding just as you or I, or any sane individual would... hands up in the air in gobsmacked amazement that anyone could be so deluded!
Personally, I like the feedback someone made earlier on this thread, and I'm sure you agree, that autism is often a gift, and in less crowded times auties were the mystics, artists and inventors. We see the world differently, and I think that's a good and very necessary thing.
Anyway... peace. I think we understand each other now. |
I wanted to thank you for your posts, because that is exactly how I felt.
I agree, I think it was dwamom that said it, that people with autism were probably the behind the scenes innovators of their less hectic times.
And, unfortunately, I'm sure a lot of them also faced a lot of false accusations in more ignorant times. I'm amazed that some people still think like, with everything that we know these days. |
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Roxas_XIII
Don't Fear the Reaper
Joined: Jan 09, 2007
Age: 18
Posts: 1971
Location: Laramie, WY
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Lord in Heaven, please forgive me in advance for the blasphemy I am about to commit.
Jdcaldwell, I apologize in advance for saying this, but it needs to be said, I mean no offense to you personally by saying it.
That said:
[edited for inappropriate content by sinsboldly]
This is the TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY, dammit! We all know that autism is a mental disorder. And while I am a Christian and I believe in the existance God and Jesus as well as the enemy of all mankind Satan, I find it hard to believe that bulls##t. Possession? Maybe if the kid was killing kittens and drawing pentagrams in their blood, but that is just stupid. The kid's autistic, not a demon.
Ok, rant over.
PS: The one thing I hate more than ignorance is censorship. Keep that in mind.
Last edited by Roxas_XIII on Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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