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Fogman
Econo-class Iconoclast
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 2634
Location: Ноуя Англия
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 Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| pezar wrote: | | I have one of the last vacuum tubes made in the US, along with examples of Svetlana, Sovtek, Tesla, and EI (Electronska Industrija from the former Yugoslavia that are no longer made since the factory was destroyed in the wars). |
Western Electric still has limited US production of 300B's that cost a fortune for a pair. RCA, Sylvania and GE still make high powered transmission tubes here as well, though Sylvania stopped production of general purpose tubes in the late 80's, and GE stopped in the mid 1990's.
EI was still actually producing tubes until late 2005. The reason why EI ceased production is in part because of the bombing in 1999, but mostly caused by the embargo that was in place in the early 90's, as well as the fact that they couldn't keep people in the factory during the civil war. Thei main problem after they were bombed was the fact that their QA was virtually nonexistant. Tube dealers in the EU and North America were discovering that the fail rates for 12AX7's during microphonics testing was %70 and >.
Western Eeectric now owns the EI factory, and was making noise about rejuvenating the brand.
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CTBill
Velociraptor
Joined: Oct 18, 2008
Age: 45
Posts: 488
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Fogman wrote: | | High powered radio and TV transmitters are also tube driven, but the tubes that are used in these do NOT look like your common glass bottle that lights up, and commonly have waterjackets to keep them cool. |
Like this tetrode, which can handle 2MW in class C mode. You can't see the internal bits, but you probably wouldn't want to look at a 10kW filament anyway (600A @ 16.3V).
(Looks sort of like a Dalek...)
And let's not forget specialty tubes such as klystrons and traveling-wave tubes, which, AFAIK, have no "sand" equivalents.
| Fogman wrote: | | One of the advantages of using tubes is that when your tubes die, all you have to do is switch them out with a fresh set, and when the new set is installed and properly biased your piece of tube gear is basically as good as it was when it left the factory. |
And tubes can withstand overload conditions that would send solid-state devices to an early grave.
Oh, and I've NEVER seen a piece of tube gear suffer the "cascade failures" that sometimes wipe out transistors downstream (and occasionally upstream) from the original failure point.
| Fogman wrote: | | ...a lot of 'oddball' tubes are quite cheap... |
12BH7's (used as the "voltage amplifier" in many McIntosh amps) weren't in current production last time I checked, and were getting up to $20+ for NOS.
Fortunately, they'll last nearly forever in an MC-30!
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pezar
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 760
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Fogman wrote: | | pezar wrote: | | I have one of the last vacuum tubes made in the US, along with examples of Svetlana, Sovtek, Tesla, and EI (Electronska Industrija from the former Yugoslavia that are no longer made since the factory was destroyed in the wars). |
Western Electric still has limited US production of 300B's that cost a fortune for a pair. RCA, Sylvania and GE still make high powered transmission tubes here as well, though Sylvania stopped production of general purpose tubes in the late 80's, and GE stopped in the mid 1990's.
EI was still actually producing tubes until late 2005. The reason why EI ceased production is in part because of the bombing in 1999, but mostly caused by the embargo that was in place in the early 90's, as well as the fact that they couldn't keep people in the factory during the civil war. Thei main problem after they were bombed was the fact that their QA was virtually nonexistant. Tube dealers in the EU and North America were discovering that the fail rates for 12AX7's during microphonics testing was %70 and >.
Western Eeectric now owns the EI factory, and was making noise about rejuvenating the brand. |
The EI example I own is a pre-bombing tube. I have a GE tube that was made in 1993, at the time it was called the last commercially available glass tube. It was made in Kentucky by MPD, and bears a code of 93-03, corresponding to January 1993-production ceased in June. ("03" means third week, so third week of 1993 = January 1993.) I also have a cheap Chinese 12AX7, the type that had sky high failure rates. I figure that most of them went in the trash, so my example should be a collectible one day. I have a number of JAN (US/NATO military) tubes, as well as a Marconi tube from Swedish Army NOS stock. I have WW2 JAN tubes as well. |
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Fogman
Econo-class Iconoclast
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 2634
Location: Ноуя Англия
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| pezar wrote: | | I also have a cheap Chinese 12AX7, the type that had sky high failure rates. I figure that most of them went in the trash, so my example should be a collectible one day. |
Chinese 12AX7's as well as Chinese tubes in general have vastly improved in quality as well as tonality. Shuguang 12AX7's are actually considered desireable because of their hi gain and low noise when used in V1 in guitar amps with Bassman/Marshall style circuits. Shuguang EL34BH's also sound good, but all of their power tubes still seem to have cathode poisoning issues.
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Fogman
Econo-class Iconoclast
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 2634
Location: Ноуя Англия
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| CTBill wrote: |
12BH7's (used as the "voltage amplifier" in many McIntosh amps) weren't in current production last time I checked, and were getting up to $20+ for NOS.
Fortunately, they'll last nearly forever in an MC-30! |
Fortunately also they don't sell for $150 and > , which are the prices that Mullard, Telefunken smoothplate , Amperex, Boxplate Tung-Sol, and RCA Blackplate 12AX7's now command.
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pezar
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 760
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Fogman wrote: | | pezar wrote: | | I also have a cheap Chinese 12AX7, the type that had sky high failure rates. I figure that most of them went in the trash, so my example should be a collectible one day. |
Chinese 12AX7's as well as Chinese tubes in general have vastly improved in quality as well as tonality. Shuguang 12AX7's are actually considered desireable because of their hi gain and low noise when used in V1 in guitar amps with Bassman/Marshall style circuits. Shuguang EL34BH's also sound good, but all of their power tubes still seem to have cathode poisoning issues. |
I never did get a Shuguang in my collection. Mine is just generic "MADE IN CHINA" so who knows who made it? THis tube is from around 2000, so fairly old. |
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pezar
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 760
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Fogman wrote: | | CTBill wrote: |
12BH7's (used as the "voltage amplifier" in many McIntosh amps) weren't in current production last time I checked, and were getting up to $20+ for NOS.
Fortunately, they'll last nearly forever in an MC-30! |
Fortunately also they don't sell for $150 and > , which are the prices that Mullard, Telefunken smoothplate , Amperex, Boxplate Tung-Sol, and RCA Blackplate 12AX7's now command. |
Mullards were good tubes. I think I have a Mullard in the collection. I'm not sure if I have a Telefunken. I have a LOT of 6 volt GT envelope tubes, the types that were only used in radios and nowhere else. The goal was to preserve examples of box design and tube silkscreening, so I took virtually anything I was handed. I DID turn down an Amperex tube that was meant for a transmitter, it was glass and HUGE! I didn't have room for it. One guy had a crapload of tubes that had sat in a barn or garage and the boxes were all moldy, I took 3 or 4 of the best preserved ones. Guitar amp tubes are nearly all 12 volts, and are the A- types. |
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Fogman
Econo-class Iconoclast
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 2634
Location: Ноуя Англия
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| pezar wrote: | | Fogman wrote: | | CTBill wrote: |
12BH7's (used as the "voltage amplifier" in many McIntosh amps) weren't in current production last time I checked, and were getting up to $20+ for NOS.
Fortunately, they'll last nearly forever in an MC-30! |
Fortunately also they don't sell for $150 and > , which are the prices that Mullard, Telefunken smoothplate , Amperex, Boxplate Tung-Sol, and RCA Blackplate 12AX7's now command. |
Mullards were good tubes. I think I have a Mullard in the collection. I'm not sure if I have a Telefunken. |
Towards the end of their production, Telefunken branded tubes contracted out to other manufacturers, most notably to Tungsram (Hungary), RFT (E. Germany) and Ei (Yugoslavia). Real Telefunkens can be differentiated from the rebrands by the '<>' in the glass at the center of the bottom of the tube.
FWIW, Amperex had two fabs, their main was was Heerlen, NL and a second fab on Long Island, NYC.
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Prof_Pretorius
troubled Soul
Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Age: 52
Posts: 5935
Location: Hiding in the attic of the Arkham Library
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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My interest is purely aesthetic. Recently my life-long bachelor neighbor moved out and left a marvelous tube radio in the rubbish. The Missus grabbed the lovely wood cabinet and I filched the innards. I plan to put tiny light bulbs behind the actual tubes so it looks like they're glowing, and have a chip play static and bits of old radio programmes.
Love the idea of creating art with radio tubes ....
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hakemon
Toucan
Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Posts: 251
Location: Oviedo, Florida
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Why not just make it functional?
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Rocky
Velociraptor
Joined: May 02, 2008
Posts: 428
Location: In the third dimension.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:27 am Post subject: |
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I worked at a Radio Shack (1980's) that still sold some vacuum tubes. We had a tube testing device so people could bring in the tube that they thought might be bad and check it. Newer electronics are easy to take for granted. They just work. Older technology had more of a mystique. They invoked a sense of wonder. Vinyl records are similar in that way. A record that sounded good was easy to appreciate, since so many did not.
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Fogman
Econo-class Iconoclast
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 2634
Location: Ноуя Англия
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Prof_Pretorius wrote: | My interest is purely aesthetic. Recently my life-long bachelor neighbor moved out and left a marvelous tube radio in the rubbish. The Missus grabbed the lovely wood cabinet and I filched the innards. I plan to put tiny light bulbs behind the actual tubes so it looks like they're glowing, and have a chip play static and bits of old radio programmes.
Love the idea of creating art with radio tubes .... |
Why not just rehab the radio and use it? Chances are all you'll need to do would be to find new tubes for it, and possibly change out any caps that have either dried up or drifted from their values over the years. You may also need to change out the grounding scheme on it to utilise a modern 3 prong cord instead of the 'death cap' and polarity switch.
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Prof_Pretorius
troubled Soul
Joined: Aug 21, 2006
Age: 52
Posts: 5935
Location: Hiding in the attic of the Arkham Library
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Fogman wrote: | | Prof_Pretorius wrote: | My interest is purely aesthetic. Recently my life-long bachelor neighbor moved out and left a marvelous tube radio in the rubbish. The Missus grabbed the lovely wood cabinet and I filched the innards. I plan to put tiny light bulbs behind the actual tubes so it looks like they're glowing, and have a chip play static and bits of old radio programmes.
Love the idea of creating art with radio tubes .... |
Why not just rehab the radio and use it? Chances are all you'll need to do would be to find new tubes for it, and possibly change out any caps that have either dried up or drifted from their values over the years. You may also need to change out the grounding scheme on it to utilise a modern 3 prong cord instead of the 'death cap' and polarity switch. |
I wouldn't know where to start ... Frankly, every tube appears to be burnt out, I havent opened the marvelous box that I guess contains the transformer. Don't know how to tell if it's OK.
I will take a pic and post it.
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I wake to sleep, and take my waking slow. I feel my fate in what I cannot fear. I learn by going where I have to go. ~Theodore Roethke |
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Fogman
Econo-class Iconoclast
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 2634
Location: Ноуя Англия
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Prof_Pretorius wrote: | | Fogman wrote: | | Prof_Pretorius wrote: | My interest is purely aesthetic. Recently my life-long bachelor neighbor moved out and left a marvelous tube radio in the rubbish. The Missus grabbed the lovely wood cabinet and I filched the innards. I plan to put tiny light bulbs behind the actual tubes so it looks like they're glowing, and have a chip play static and bits of old radio programmes.
Love the idea of creating art with radio tubes .... |
Why not just rehab the radio and use it? Chances are all you'll need to do would be to find new tubes for it, and possibly change out any caps that have either dried up or drifted from their values over the years. You may also need to change out the grounding scheme on it to utilise a modern 3 prong cord instead of the 'death cap' and polarity switch. |
I wouldn't know where to start ... Frankly, every tube appears to be burnt out, I havent opened the marvelous box that I guess contains the transformer. Don't know how to tell if it's OK.
I will take a pic and post it. |
What state do you live in? (PM the answer to me)
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jawbrodt
Only Truth
Joined: Jan 27, 2008
Age: 35
Posts: 10580
Location: Eastern USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:19 am Post subject: |
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When i was about 20 years old, I had an obsession with home audio, and always wanted to be able to compare the difference a tube amplifier made, versus the traditonal amp. I had a really nice system, not super-high-end, but an upper grade, nonetheless. I had a Carver amp, and Definitive Technology speakers, which was the best i could afford at the time. Anyway, I've read many, many, times, how the sound of tube equipment was something that had to be experienced to be appreciated, and sadly, i never had the opportunity. I'm not into audio anymore, anywhere near like I was then, but someday i plan to get back into it, and plan to listen to some tubes someday. I'm so damn obsessive about having the best possible though, that I think I'd have to hit the lottery to buy anything that would keep my OCD at a tolerable level.  Damn, those things can get expensive.
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