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Tim_Tex
Eclectic
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
Age: 30
Posts: 34263
Location: Houston, Texas (interim)
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 Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| DW_a_mom wrote: | | ToadOfSteel wrote: | | sinsboldly wrote: | I had a guy tell me that everytime I asked " how do you feel about me? are we a couple?" type questions it was like pulling up a plant to see how the roots are doing. Pretty soon the plant can't take the stress of being over examined.
He said I could tell if the relationship was doing well if the 'plant' was green and flourishing without digging up the roots. My subsequent relationships did much better after I digested that info. |
Except the plant can still be sick even if it looks green and healthy on the surface... |
In which case, it needs fertilizer, and pulling it up by the roots still won't help  |
Now this thread is sounding like my soil science class.
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I do have beliefs that are complex, unconventional, and eclectic. If anyone has questions about them, feel free to refer to this thread:
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AutisticMalcontent
Velociraptor
Joined: May 30, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 485
Location: In the annoying and painful realm of reality :P
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| KenM wrote: | I have come to the conclusion that God must be right, after trying all my life and failing at finding someone special, God must mean for me to be alone. I have accepted it. I don't like it. So this means I have nothing to lose. I have few questions to the so called ladies out there.
1. Why do you think its acceptable to lie to guys? Saying you want to be friends when you really want nothing to do with them? If you tell someone you want nothing to do with them, they will leave you alone. If you tell someone they just want to be friends the implies you still want to hang out and do things with them, but then the women gets upset when the guy wants to do these things.
2. Why do women like to continue to lie to guys even when we tell you straght up please don't lie? I had a female friend lie to me to use me so I could pick her up from the airport. I wanted to hang out with her at least once before I took her to the airport, she said she was busy. I asked her straght up if it was because she was seeing somone. I did not care about her romantally. She still said she was not but after she told me she was seeing someone.
Its is womens fault for all the misunderstanding between men and women. No wonder some guys like to shot up places where women are. Rejected all there life, lied too. No wonder people do these things. I am not saying its right but I understand.
Do you women get some kind of power trip screwing with guys? Why do you always like to cause men stress and heartache? |
You know, you sound exactly like me, absolutely jaded concerning women, almost to the point of misogyny. But your circumstance is more understandable than mine, considering you are significantly older than I am, and I'm merely young and haven't really put myself out there.
Your resentment towards women is perfectly understandable. I know I am going to get blasted for this, but it is true that a considerable amount of women are manipulative and will use good-natured guys for their benefit. I've been a party to being used before as well, and I realize it later on and get angry.
Secondly, I believe the reason why women lie to us is so that they don't hurt our feelings. You know, we want women to be honest with us, but sometimes the truth is more painful than the lie. Both hurt, but one is gradual (the lie), and the other is instant and can cause immediate confrontational situations (the truth). In this sense I can't blame women for lying, however, if they are going to lie, they had better well leave us be and not manipulate our good nature and well meaning. Such women are scum in my eyes.
I'm afraid a lot of women are an annoying necessity, you really can't fully live without them. If you try to separate yourself from them, you'll only become lonely again and search them out. I believe only a very very very rare breed of man can be alone and be content being alone. I don't know how many times I tried to swear off women and despise them, but I always come back like a naive little child, hoping that some girl I find attractive will also find me attractive and interesting enough to date. Then comes rejection, anger and resentment, and back to square one again. |
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hartzofspace
Red Dragon
Joined: Apr 15, 2005
Posts: 5177
Location: In the Fortress Of Solitude
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| AutisticMalcontent wrote: | | I don't know how many times I tried to swear off women and despise them, but I always come back like a naive little child, hoping that some girl I find attractive will also find me attractive and interesting enough to date. Then comes rejection, anger and resentment, and back to square one again. |
I heard a quote somewhere, don't remember exactly where, but it went something like this: "The solution to every problem lies within the problem itself." I was very bitter towards men for many years, and sounded off about it, at every opportunity. All that did was attract lesbians, who thought that I meant I wasn't interested in men for relationships. I finally realized that I had to change something in myself, if I expected to attract what I really wanted. I had to stop putting all my energy on what I hated, and use that same energy to appreciate and take care of myself. A person who is asserting how much of a failure they are with women, (or men) on a daily basis, is not going to attract a loving relationship to themselves. I learned this. Not only that, it is very off putting to people, to hear all of this bitterness. After all, what can they say in return? Once I started asserting that there are good men out there, and that I had to take stock of what I have to offer to a good man, I realized that my inventory wasn't very attractive. It took years of counseling, journaling, and introspection, but I became better relationship material. Now I am seeing a good man, and guess what? I worked hard to get here, and I deserve it!
_________________
Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.
-- Dr. Dale Turner |
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KenM
an i mal
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Age: 41
Posts: 1290
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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misogyny
I have seen this term alot here. I have not idea what it means. Can anyone tell me? |
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hartzofspace
Red Dragon
Joined: Apr 15, 2005
Posts: 5177
Location: In the Fortress Of Solitude
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| KenM wrote: | misogyny
I have seen this term alot here. I have not idea what it means. Can anyone tell me? |
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/misogyny
_________________
Dreams are renewable. No matter what our age or condition, there are still untapped possibilities within us and new beauty waiting to be born.
-- Dr. Dale Turner |
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PaganMom
Sea Gull
Joined: Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 218
Location: Middle Of Nowhere, BFE, The Deep South
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| KenM wrote: | 1. Why do you think its acceptable to lie to guys? Saying you want to be friends when you really want nothing to do with them? If you tell someone you want nothing to do with them, they will leave you alone. If you tell someone they just want to be friends the implies you still want to hang out and do things with them, but then the women gets upset when the guy wants to do these things.
2. Why do women like to continue to lie to guys even when we tell you straght up please don't lie? I had a female friend lie to me to use me so I could pick her up from the airport. I wanted to hang out with her at least once before I took her to the airport, she said she was busy. I asked her straght up if it was because she was seeing somone. I did not care about her romantally. She still said she was not but after she told me she was seeing someone.
Its is womens fault for all the misunderstanding between men and women. No wonder some guys like to shot up places where women are. Rejected all there life, lied too. No wonder people do these things. I am not saying its right but I understand.
Do you women get some kind of power trip screwing with guys? Why do you always like to cause men stress and heartache? |
Well you obviously know that "lets just be friends" means "I'm not interested in you" but you want her to say it another way to make her uncomfortable for rejecting you. If you know what it means, why do you whine about a girl saying it to you?
As for the airport girl, it wasn't your business if she was seeing somebody, and if you wanted to put some kind of strings attached to the ride to the airport then just tell her what you want, and if that's acceptable to her, then she will do it, but probably not.
Ya know, after reading this thread I've looked at some of your other posts and I would suggest learning some charm and respect and make it about her and not about what you want her to say and then maybe you'll find somebody. Or you might end up finding some woman with no self esteem who will do anything for any man anywhere to notice her.
PaganMom |
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PaganMom
Sea Gull
Joined: Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 218
Location: Middle Of Nowhere, BFE, The Deep South
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| KenM wrote: | So I should just let people continue to treat me like crap and a door mat? I have no right to feel like I do? If I forgot how people messed with me in the past I know I will get hurt again. I am not going to let anyone screw or lie to me again.
I challenge anyone here to go through everything I have. Always being rejected, never going on a date, no phsyical contact. Then not having the feelings I do. I am sorry to paint most women like this but I am always getting dumped and rejected, I would not blame a women feeling the same way if the same thing happened to them. |
Maybe it's not the women. Maybe it's you.
PaganMom |
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AutisticMalcontent
Velociraptor
Joined: May 30, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 485
Location: In the annoying and painful realm of reality :P
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| KenM wrote: | misogyny
I have seen this term alot here. I have not idea what it means. Can anyone tell me? |
Misogyny is either hatred or extreme contempt for women/girls. I use the term misogyny a lot, however I use it in the tense of embitterment or contempt for women romantically because of past grievances and rejections. Misogyny can be defined as all out hatred for women/girls, just because they are women/girls, or it can have various degrees of severity.
In my case, it is a very negative attitude towards women I naturally find attractive romantically. Why? Because like you, and countless guys on this forum, we have been rejected multiple times without good explanation and for no logical reason by women we find attractive. As friends, women are great to be around, as relatives, once again great to be around.
But once you open up to a girl you find attractive romantically and you get stabbed in the heart by the sting of rejection multiple times, it is EASY to resentment and detest women romantically.
Wikipedia also makes this note:
Misogyny is a negative attitude towards women as a group, and so need not fully determine a misogynist's attitude towards each individual woman. The fact that someone holds misogynist views may not prevent him or her from having positive relationships with some women.
Conversely, simply having negative relationships with some women does not necessarily mean someone holds misogynistic views. The term, like most negative descriptions of attitudes, is used as an epithet and applied to a wide variety of behaviors and attitudes. |
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AutisticMalcontent
Velociraptor
Joined: May 30, 2008
Age: 23
Posts: 485
Location: In the annoying and painful realm of reality :P
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| hartzofspace wrote: | | AutisticMalcontent wrote: | | I don't know how many times I tried to swear off women and despise them, but I always come back like a naive little child, hoping that some girl I find attractive will also find me attractive and interesting enough to date. Then comes rejection, anger and resentment, and back to square one again. |
I heard a quote somewhere, don't remember exactly where, but it went something like this: "The solution to every problem lies within the problem itself." I was very bitter towards men for many years, and sounded off about it, at every opportunity. All that did was attract lesbians, who thought that I meant I wasn't interested in men for relationships. I finally realized that I had to change something in myself, if I expected to attract what I really wanted. I had to stop putting all my energy on what I hated, and use that same energy to appreciate and take care of myself. A person who is asserting how much of a failure they are with women, (or men) on a daily basis, is not going to attract a loving relationship to themselves. I learned this. Not only that, it is very off putting to people, to hear all of this bitterness. After all, what can they say in return? Once I started asserting that there are good men out there, and that I had to take stock of what I have to offer to a good man, I realized that my inventory wasn't very attractive. It took years of counseling, journaling, and introspection, but I became better relationship material. Now I am seeing a good man, and guess what? I worked hard to get here, and I deserve it! |
Well that is an interesting story, and you make a lot of sense with what you say. As for myself, I don't openly talk about past rejections and past embitterment that I've had against women to people (male or female) that I know, unless they have had similar experiences, by which they can relate to me. That would be a terribly foolish thing to do, because it would obviously change their perspective of you considerably. Not only that, but it would chase off any women who might have some interest in you. After all, don't women like confidence and hate negativity?
But here, I am not bond by personal beliefs and opinions of those who know me, who might be influenced or appalled at my personal beliefs and ideas. Here I am free to be me in totality, and to speak my mind. Thus I'm a little more forthcoming with my ideas and opinions since there is no threat of embarrassment or rebuke.
My female peers don't even know my feelings concerning this subject because I hide it well. But how could they know anyways? How could they possibly know what it is like to be single for 8 years (I'm counting from 15 onwards, which is the start of the typical dating age)? How could they know what one does to ease that loneliness in that time? How could they comprehend such things? No, they are ignorant of it all, they have no point of reference. So even if I told them about my personal embitterment and loneliness, they wouldn't even be able to relate.
You know, I see a lot of women on this forum getting angry at guys for making accusations against women based on generalizations from lack of relationships or negative relationships. And I can perfectly understand, no one likes being called out and criticized for the actions of a few (or many, depending on the case), I really can understand that.
But really, how many women can relate to such loneliness? Sure, at some in their lives, women are alone. Sure, women may have relationships with guys that end badly. These are always constant variables. However, who many girls, neurotypical or autistic, have been as single as a lot of us guys on here? I'm talking anywhere from 5 years to 20+ years. How many times have you girls been rejected?
The attitude changes dramatically when you put these things in account.
The question comes down to this: How many times are you going to get stabbed in the heart before you realize the futility in trying? How many times will it take for you to be kicked while you're down before you accept being down and out for good? This is exactly where the OP is at, he realizes it isn't worth the pain of rejection anymore.
You know, trying, putting yourself out there, it is all good in theory, but if it doesn't achieve the desired effects, why try again and again? Why put yourself through that? I understand what he's saying, and I can certainly understand where he is coming from. I'm just throwing out some food for thought, I'd not angry at anyone on here, I just thought I'd throw my own take on all of this. |
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KenM
an i mal
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Age: 41
Posts: 1290
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| PaganMom wrote: |
Well you obviously know that "lets just be friends" means "I'm not interested in you" but you want her to say it another way to make her uncomfortable for rejecting you. If you know what it means, why do you whine about a girl saying it to you?
As for the airport girl, it wasn't your business if she was seeing somebody, and if you wanted to put some kind of strings attached to the ride to the airport then just tell her what you want, and if that's acceptable to her, then she will do it, but probably not.
PaganMom |
For starters, I said in an eariler post in this thread what I am going to try to do to change my atitude and look and do things diferently.
For some reason when I women says "I just want to be friends" it causes me to think that they are not being honest with me and don't respect me enough to tell me flat out they are not interested. I have been told that so many times I have no idea if they really mean it, or if they are just trying to let me down easy. From now on I am going to assume they want nothing to do with me and not think about it and walk away.
As for the airport girl, I was not interested in her romantically at that point. I thought it would be nice to hang out and do some stuff before her trip. I asked her if the reason she did not have time to hang out was because she was seeing someone romantically, I won't be mad, but just let me know. She said she was not, but a week after I picked her up from the airport she told me she was seeing someone at that time. So I was flat out lied to and disrespected. Thats what I did not like. This was someone I told that I had AS and what that means is I need people to try and be truthful, ect.. I did not care she was seeing anyone, but the fact she could not tell me the truth is what ended our friendship. She only used me for a place to stay when she was over from nantucket and for rides to the airport. When we were driving home from the airport, she called what I think was her BF over on the island. She wanted to know if he wanted anything at burger king because we were going to stop before we got to the other airport to take her to the island. She did not bother asking me, her so called friend if I wanted anything until after she ordered her food and the food for her friend. I said yes I did want something. I ordered a meal. I figured she would ask if I wanted something because i was doing her a favor, taking the day off from work to pick her up and driving up to boston and back. But she thought so little of me. One other time we were walking around the mall, she ran into a friend of hers and started talking to him. She did not bother to bring me into the conversation or introduce me or anything like that, all of a sudden I was not there in her eyes. And people say people with AS need social skills?
Stuff with her was building, she was using me and I did not feel a freindship with her. Thats why I broke it off with her, not because I had feelings for her romatically.
Last edited by KenM on Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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KenM
an i mal
Joined: Oct 16, 2005
Age: 41
Posts: 1290
Location: Mass. USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| AutisticMalcontent wrote: |
How could they comprehend such things? No, they are ignorant of it all, they have no point of reference.
But really, how many women can relate to such loneliness? |
Back when my stepsister and I were in high school, she was always going out on dates with people every weekend. I always got rejected asking anyone out pretty much until college. one saturday night my stepsister was waiting for this guy she was going to go out with to pick her up. He never showed. After an hour of waiting she said to me "wow, being rejected and stood up really sucks, its never happened to me before."
So I can see where you are coming from with that. |
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PaganMom
Sea Gull
Joined: Nov 05, 2009
Posts: 218
Location: Middle Of Nowhere, BFE, The Deep South
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Why do women always like to mess with guys? |
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| KenM wrote: | | PaganMom wrote: |
Well you obviously know that "lets just be friends" means "I'm not interested in you" but you want her to say it another way to make her uncomfortable for rejecting you. If you know what it means, why do you whine about a girl saying it to you?
As for the airport girl, it wasn't your business if she was seeing somebody, and if you wanted to put some kind of strings attached to the ride to the airport then just tell her what you want, and if that's acceptable to her, then she will do it, but probably not.
PaganMom |
For starters, I said in an eariler post in this thread what I am going to try to do to change my atitude and look and do things diferently.
For some reason when I women says "I just want to be friends" it causes me to think that they are not being honest with me and don't respect me enough to tell me flat out they are not interested. I have been told that so many times I have no idea if they really mean it, or if they are just trying to let me down easy. From now on I am going to assume they want nothing to do with me and not think about it and walk away.
As for the airport girl, I was not interested in her romantically at that point. I thought it would be nice to hang out and do some stuff before her trip. I asked her if the reason she did not have time to hang out was because she was seeing someone romantically, I won't be mad, but just let me know. She said she was not, but a week after I picked her up from the airport she told me she was seeing someone at that time. So I was flat out lied to and disrespected. Thats what I did not like. This was someone I told that I had AS and what that means is I need people to try and be truthful, ect.. I did not care she was seeing anyone, but the fact she could not tell me the truth is what ended our friendship. She only used me for a place to stay when she was over from nantucket and for rides to the airport. When we were driving home from the airport, she called what I think was her BF over on the island. She wanted to know if he wanted anything at burger king because we were going to stop before we got to the other airport to take her to the island. She did not bother asking me, her so called friend if I wanted anything until after she ordered her food and the food for her friend. I said yes I did want something. I ordered a meal. I figured she would ask if I wanted something because i was doing her a favor, taking the day off from work to pick her up and driving up to boston and back. But she thought so little of me. One other time we were walking around the mall, she ran into a friend of hers and started talking to him. She did not bother to bring me into the conversation or introduce me or anything like that, all of a sudden I was not there in her eyes. And people say people with AS need social skills?
Stuff with her was building, she was using me and I did not feel a freindship with her. Thats why I broke it off with her, not because I had feelings for her romatically. |
You don't sound like you have tried to understand one word anybody has said to you.
"Just friends" is a SOCIAL NICETY. That's all. Do you feel like somebody is lying to you when they ask how you are and don't really care, it's just a greeting? Do you feel that it's a lie when somebody says "see you later" and they have no intention to? It's the same thing. It's just a nice way to turn a guy down for a date. It's a phrase. It sounds like they may say that to you hoping you would understand, (which you do btw, obviously since you have b***** about it in numerous posts) but you want to harrass them by asking if they really want to be your friend and why they dont like you etc. You need to stop that first. Accept, even if you don't like it, that 'lets be friends' is a phrase, a way of turining you down, even if you don't like that phrase. It's like "Ive got to wash my hair". If you asked a girl out and she turned you down for a date, using that as an excuse, would you try to ascertain the next day if she really had washed her hair, then be all upset about it if she didn't? Somebody has the right to turn down a date using whatever excuse they so desire, true or not. Just because you have AS does not change her right to say what she wants. I have AS too, and when I hear things enough, I know it's not meant literally. Nobody is going to change an entire society's phrasing just to suit you. I'm sorry, but it's not gonna happen.
BTW, I guess you could say I LIED to you just now, because I said "I'm sorry" when I'm not, but again, it's a phrase.
The airport girl's relationship status was none of your business. It's as simple as that. AS doesn't mean you are entitled to know the answer to everything you ask. It also doesn't mean that other people can't answer in whatever way they so choose. As for the food, she DID ask you if you wanted anything. You were with her, and going to BK, so I'm pretty sure she figured that she could ask you there, not before anybody else. Now your just whining because she asked her bf first on the phone, ordered hers, and then asked if you wanted anything. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If I'm in the car with people and go to a drive through, I'll order what I need to for me and whoever elese then ask if they want anything.
Not introducing you to her friend she stopped to talk to is borderline rude, depending on who the friend was. You are not going to be the center of someones attention constantly.
Now that you know that "just friends" means "no thanks" are you going to stop fussing over it? It's just a way of answering. Nobody is going to change an entire societies way of communicating for you, me, or Joe Blow down the street. That's just how it is, I learned it, I have AS just like you do, and so can you.
PaganMom |
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ToadOfSteel
Living in fantasy
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 22
Posts: 5348
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Spokane_Girl wrote: | | PaganMom wrote: | Maybe it's not the women. Maybe it's you.
PaganMom |
It is. I have seen too many of his posts that yell out RUN. |
Do my posts yell out RUN or no?
_________________
"I mean I am the guy who writes down things to remember to say when there is a party. And then when he finally gets there he winds up alone, in the corner, trying to look...comfortable examining a potted plant." |
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lotusblossom
Phoenix
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Joined: Jan 14, 2008
Age: 31
Posts: 1626
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| ToadOfSteel wrote: | | Spokane_Girl wrote: | | PaganMom wrote: | Maybe it's not the women. Maybe it's you.
PaganMom |
It is. I have seen too many of his posts that yell out RUN. |
Do my posts yell out RUN or no? |
to me, your post yell out that your very insecure and would be 'hard work' and emotionally draining. I think you should stop useing the 'negative affirmations' of having 'unlovable' writen everywhere and buy some books on confidence building and self esteem. Even if working on your self esteem does not get you a girlfriend it would make you feel better.
I do like you lots though and enjoy your posts and Im not saying that to be mean but to be frank and honest, I hope that I have not hurt your feelings. |
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