 
Support Wrong Planet!
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
pensieve
Autist and Artist
Joined: Nov 19, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 3276
Location: NSW, Australia
|
 Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Maggiedoll wrote: | If you do not have impairment, you do not have the disorder. You would see that if you looked at the diagnostic criteria. It doesn't matter how you scored on an internet quiz, or what Wired magazine said. It's a disorder because it causes impairment. If you have a few traits and no impairment, you don't have it. It's in the definition. If you think it's a good thing, you don't have it. It also does not "cause" higher IQs. The average IQ of people with Asperger's is higher than the average IQ of the general population because it specifies that people with Asperger's can't have other developmental delays. If you chop out the bottom of the intelligence spectrum, of course the average will be higher. That doesn't mean that it "causes" IQ to be higher. It means that by definition the average must be higher.
Nothing you're saying makes any sense. It's like saying that since some people with bipolar are creative, it must be a good thing to be bipolar. Ignore all the people with bipolar disorder who kill themselves, that's just a fluke? |
I agree with all of this.
I am one of those impaired aspies.
I don't work, I live at home and fail at relationships. There is more to it like sensorary issues and social issues but I'll leave it at that.
I think Asperger's is so overdiagnosed that some people that are diagnosed are so mild that they aren't in any way impaired with it. This is probably where the whole idea that it's a blessing comes from.
Oh and to whoever said that 100 is very low IQ score I'm about 3-5 points lower. And here I was thinking 60 was a low IQ score...silly me. (Note: sarcasm).
_________________
My blogs:
http://latedx.wordpress.com/
http://hidingbehindthelens.posterous.com/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 27
Posts: 4559
Location: Central USA
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JohnnyD017 wrote: | | Why do people think their skills are always directly related to their condition? I have talent in areas like drawing/writing but take the condition away and id still be good at them, just without the downsides. The 'difference' thing confuses me. |
I think it's because people with autism have, as part of their difference, a wide scatter of skill levels. Even on the IQ tests you can see this; most NTs have a performance/verbal gap of five points or less, but it's not uncommon to see an autistic person with twenty or thirty points gap (that's two or three standard deviations--huge!). Even when your gap is only ten points or so, your sub-tests can show that you're below average in one thing, while at a relatively closely related thing you're untestable because you reached the end of the test without a mistake.
And that's just the IQ test. Extend that to daily life, and suddenly you get odd disparities like people who can read five pages in a minute but can't do simple addition; people who can work a computer but can't cook a meal; people who can write a novel but can't dress themselves. Half or more of the world's true savants are autistic; many of the autistics who aren't actually savants still have some skill level far above average, or at least far above their personal average. Autistic brains are incredibly specialized; and it doesn't make much sense to say that the deficits are part of autism, but the savant skills aren't. The presence of special skills, however, does not change the status of autism as a disability. However well you do some things, you are still delayed in some necessary skills expected of you, and that is what makes a disability.
_________________
Engineering student. Gamer. Christian. Asexual. Information Addict. Deal with it!
Reports from a Resident Alien:
http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
BMH
Emu Egg
Joined: Nov 21, 2009
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was reading this forum for a long time and came to a firm conclusion that the most disabling aspect of Asperger`s Syndrome is
| DSM-IV-TR wrote: | | Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior |
It is (of course) especially disabling in situations that require a great deal of flexibility, such as communication with other human beings. |
|
| Back to top |
|
OuterBoroughGirl
Raven
Joined: Oct 03, 2009
Age: 28
Posts: 118
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
The last time I was given an IQ test, there was a 52 point deviation between my Verbal and Performance IQ. My VIQ was high enough to put me in the gifted range, and my PIQ was low enough to put me in the borderline r******* range. The evaluator said that he had never seen anything like that, and didn't know what to make of it. He told my mother that it was impossible to get a measure of my overall IQ with such a huge deviation.
Granted, this was when I was in fifth grade. The following year, I was given an shortened version of an evaluation, because it was decided that I should be declassified from all special services, so I didn't have to enter Junior High with an IEP. The evaluator said that my VIQ and PIQ scores had definitely gone up, but he couldn't say exactly how much, because he had not administered the complete test.
My point here is; an IQ test is pretty much useless in measuring my intelligence. I don't set a whole lot of store by IQ tests in general, and I don't set any store by IQ tests when it comes to measuring the intelligence of individuals on the autism spectrum.
I apologize if this post is completely incoherent. Though I am supposed to be verbally gifted, I haven't had coffee yet today, so my alleged verbal "gifts" have not kicked in yet.
_________________
I talked for hours to your wallet photograph
And you just listened
You laughed enchanted by my intellect
Or maybe you didn't
|
|
| Back to top |
|
wildgrape
Toucan
Joined: May 29, 2009
Age: 59
Posts: 262
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
JohnnyD017 wrote
| Quote: | | Why do people think their skills are always directly related to their condition? |
I wonder why people ALWAYS generalize like this. In any event, it is widely understood that some autists benefit from exceptional talents, and it serves no useful purpose to refuse to accept this. Based on the research of a contributor to these forums, 10% of AS have are gifted in some way.
Intellectual and artistic talents are difficult to measure, but in music perfect pitch can be detected. Numerous web sources state that about 1 in 10,000 Americans have perfect pitch, but it has been suggested that 1 in 20 AS have it. Since this is 500 times more prevalent than "normal", a degree in statistics is not required in order to understand the correlation.
| Quote: | | Yes there are a small number who have freakish skills that may or may not be related to the condition |
Why denigrate such skills by characterizing them as "freakish"? My understanding is that these forums are at least in part designed to provide support. As such, people should be able to discuss their problems without being ridiculed and, on the other hand, people should also be able to discuss their talents without being mocked. |
|
| Back to top |
|
BoringAaron
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Nov 13, 2009
Posts: 195
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pensieve wrote: |
I agree with all of this.
I am one of those impaired aspies.
I don't work, I live at home and fail at relationships. |
What about somebody who was impaired earlier in life, but found ways around the impairment and now can do all the things an NT could do? Would that person still be an aspie? It's a permanent condition, but one could learn to fake being normal.
Also, there are some jobs which don't really require an extensive interview process. If your problem is merely in obtaining a job, you could try something like that. That's my problem, getting through the interview, but once I'm in, I'm a good worker, except that I'm late a lot because I never remember how to estimate time.
| Quote: | | Oh and to whoever said that 100 is very low IQ score I'm about 3-5 points lower. And here I was thinking 60 was a low IQ score...silly me. (Note: sarcasm). |
I don't think IQ tests are a truly accurate way of measuring intelligence anyway. There are many things one could be smart at, IQ only measures a certain kind of processing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 27
Posts: 4559
Location: Central USA
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | What about somebody who was impaired earlier in life, but found ways around the impairment and now can do all the things an NT could do? Would that person still be an aspie? It's a permanent condition, but one could learn to fake being normal. |
He can't be given a diagnosis because the "significant impairment" criterion is not met, but he is still neurologically and possibly culturally autistic. But remember that "significant impairment" includes having to try so hard that you use up all your effort doing what is effortless to most people, because it drastically reduces your ability to cope in unusual circumstances.
_________________
Engineering student. Gamer. Christian. Asexual. Information Addict. Deal with it!
Reports from a Resident Alien:
http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
wildgrape
Toucan
Joined: May 29, 2009
Age: 59
Posts: 262
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
pensieve wrote
| Quote: | | I think Asperger's is so overdiagnosed that some people that are diagnosed are so mild that they aren't in any way impaired with it. |
The idea is frequently advanced on these forums that the more a person feels she/he "suffers", the more severe her/his AS is, and, indeed, anyone who doesn't perceive himself to suffer doesn't have AS. This may be convenient argument for those who wish to use AS as a tool to gain sympathy and support , but I don't believe it reflects reality. I doubt that there is a reliable way to measure the overall severity of an individual's autism and, moreover, I find the concept such comparisons somewhat distasteful, but it may well be that many of those who perceive themselves to suffer the most are actually among those who are the least autistic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Vexcalibur
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 1154
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It is an artificial disability most of the times. The world has been constructed in a way to give advantages to NT. NTs find it hard to understand since they had them for all their lives... If what you think is AS has not ever caused inconveniences to you, then you probably don't have i. Maybe you are just more logical-thinking and just that.
The whole point of the AS label is to work out as a way to allow people with it get support for this impairment. Do notice it is merely a label based on a set of traits and not something biological or anything. If you don't have issues caused by it that could get helped with a diagnosis (like being able to tell your boss that you would have issues with certain things that are 'standard' in inter-human relationships then you don't need this label. IT is not thought as something to make you feel good or special like the indigo child woo woo.
Basically, AS people should have trouble with imitation and face reading besides the traits you mentioned. That's what the label's rules say...
_________________
How dare we be different. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Outshined667
Butterfly
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Age: 16
Posts: 14
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| its a PDD, a progressive development disorder. it messes up the progressive development of ur brain. its just tht its a fad now and nuerologists will automaticlly deem everything aspergers |
|
| Back to top |
|
reiver
Butterfly
Joined: Nov 19, 2009
Posts: 11
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There's been a number of people who have responded with something to the effect..."Asperger is a certain neurological wiring (that is different than Neurotypicals) PLUS being disabled".
So then, if that's what Asperger is, then is there a name for someone who has the "same" neurological wiring as someone with Asperger, BUT is NOT disabled? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Danielismyname
Ma said I'm special
Joined: Apr 03, 2007
Posts: 8869
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, it's called Broader Autism Phenotype. It comes under PDD-NOS.
Parents and relatives of people with AS/AD oftentimes have it (think of it as...Schizotypal PD compared to Schizophrenia in terms of "disability").
To add, it's not the same "wiring" though, it's less damaged "wiring".
To add again, IIRC, this gives good information on it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
reiver
Butterfly
Joined: Nov 19, 2009
Posts: 11
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Danielismyname wrote: | Yeah, it's called Broader Autism Phenotype. It comes under PDD-NOS.
Parents and relatives of people with AS/AD oftentimes have it (think of it as...Schizotypal PD compared to Schizophrenia in terms of "disability").
To add, it's not the same "wiring" though, it's less damaged "wiring". |
That's a mouthful 
Perhaps this is what the "Geek Syndrome" is that the article on Wired was talking about. Although they are calling it Asperger. (Eventually, I'll try and dig into the data behind that article, to get more details.)
From a Genetics point-of-view, it looks like it is likely being positively selected for. (Which makes calling it "damaged" a little misleading. It's like calling opposable thumbs "damage". Sure opposable thumbs are horrible for walking on all fours, but they're great if you want to grab stuff.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
makuranososhi
Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Joined: May 13, 2008
Posts: 6225
Location: Transitional
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
You would be equally in error to consider thumbs to be a boon - if the environment changes and being able to run on four legs was a more desirable trait, then humans would be severely disadvantaged. Benefit comes from applicability plus adaptability, not from some single characteristic or ability.
M.
_________________
He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
From my heart and from my hand, why don't people understand my intentions...?
Wrong Planet Moderator |
|
| Back to top |
|
88BK
Snowy Owl
Joined: Nov 06, 2009
Posts: 159
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wildgrape wrote: |
The idea is frequently advanced on these forums that the more a person feels she/he "suffers", the more severe her/his AS is, and, indeed, anyone who doesn't perceive himself to suffer doesn't have AS. |
i would have though the more a person feels that he/she is suffering the less severe their ASD would be as it would mean they're far more in touch with emotion/empathy than someone who is severely impaired but does not "suffer" from these impairments. the higher functioning you are on the spectrum the more you "suffer" from being on the spectrum. (???) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
