Magnus
Happy Anarchy Day
Joined: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 2703
Location: Claremont, California
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 Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Vince wrote: | | Magnus wrote: | | but I still believe that energy never dies. |
And somehow energy=person? Energy separates. Once the impulses in your brain no longer have a system in which to form a mind, there is no mind. Just because "energy never dies" doesn't mean that you don't cease to be. "You" is a much more complex concept than "energy". To say that just because energy can't be destroyed, the mind can't be destroyed, is just about as logical as saying that thick paper can't be ruined by a person blowing on it, therefore a house of cards will not fall down if you blow on it. |
So what if there is no single mindedness after we die. There is a higher reality than that which we can perceive.
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As long as man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other.
-Pythagoras
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marchingmaniac
Blue Jay
Joined: Mar 13, 2009
Age: 21
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| heaven is the after party to a amazing life that God has given to you. It will be the paradise that youd always wanted with people you miss people you love things of that nature. And when you die no matter what the circumstance you spend eternity with God. And he still loves the people that lose others or the people that take their life. God knows that sometimes life can be rough but he is with you every single step of the way. That my friends is the real heaven. And for those of you that would argue how can God do this this and that. But man God shows his LOVE in unusual ways but eventually it will get to your head. That God was the first to love you and God will always be with you. |
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Vince
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 01, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 698
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Magnus wrote: | | So what if there is no single mindedness after we die. There is a higher reality than that which we can perceive. |
That's still just wild speculation. You're making things up and tossing around wild guesses without any factual basis, or even a clear definition of the energy you're speaking of. The only observable energy involved in making us who we are is the impulses in our brains. Without the living brain and without the specific patterns in which these impulses can happen, this "energy" is not really any more special than the energy that makes a balloon attract hair after rubbing against fabric. Do balloons have eternal souls too?
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I'm Vince. I make the music. And puppet.
http://www.swenglish.nu |
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Magnus
Happy Anarchy Day
Joined: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 2703
Location: Claremont, California
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Vince wrote: | | Magnus wrote: | | So what if there is no single mindedness after we die. There is a higher reality than that which we can perceive. |
That's still just wild speculation. You're making things up and tossing around wild guesses without any factual basis, or even a clear definition of the energy you're speaking of. The only observable energy involved in making us who we are is the impulses in our brains. Without the living brain and without the specific patterns in which these impulses can happen, this "energy" is not really any more special than the energy that makes a balloon attract hair after rubbing against fabric. Do balloons have eternal souls too? |
Since there is no animal on earth with perfect perception, why would you assume that humans have it? It's not speculation. I've experienced plenty of hallucinations which prove to me that there is a higher reality. ;P
_________________
As long as man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other.
-Pythagoras
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 14174
Location: Omnipresent
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Magnus wrote: |
Since there is no animal on earth with perfect perception, why would you assume that humans have it? It's not speculation. I've experienced plenty of hallucinations which prove to me that there is a higher reality. ;P |
That does pose an interesting issue for human knowledge. I mean, "hallucinations" are relatively common among otherwise normal individuals. I don't think that most hallucinations have been found to agree with each other to an extent we'd expect with more standard ways of knowing things. But it seems very likely and probable that some human beings will find hallucinations to be good sources of knowledge. Of course, it seems that other individuals will label such things to be absurd and be reasonable to do so....
So, in short, people are crazy, and so long as you don't blame me for that fact, Magnus, I won't blame you. 
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Orwell
Outer Party Member
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Age: 23
Posts: 13715
Location: Room 101
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Awesomelyglorious wrote: | | Also, in order for heaven to be heaven, I have to change in ways that may make me unrecognizable to myself. I mean, if heaven is the perfect world, then think about it. Every morose feeling, agitation, or even minor cognitive flaw or false belief has to be gotten rid of. The question is, what kind of person is left over after all of that? It seems hard to distinguish the intrinisic me, from what I think, how I think, or what I believe. |
That's not a problem, as you do not exist and there is no such thing as a person.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH |
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Magnus
Happy Anarchy Day
Joined: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 2703
Location: Claremont, California
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Awesomelyglorious wrote: | | Magnus wrote: |
Since there is no animal on earth with perfect perception, why would you assume that humans have it? It's not speculation. I've experienced plenty of hallucinations which prove to me that there is a higher reality. ;P |
That does pose an interesting issue for human knowledge. I mean, "hallucinations" are relatively common among otherwise normal individuals. I don't think that most hallucinations have been found to agree with each other to an extent we'd expect with more standard ways of knowing things. But it seems very likely and probable that some human beings will find hallucinations to be good sources of knowledge. Of course, it seems that other individuals will label such things to be absurd and be reasonable to do so....
So, in short, people are crazy, and so long as you don't blame me for that fact, Magnus, I won't blame you. |
There have been plenty of people who believe in the after life. If enough people have hallucinations about God, maybe there is something more to it. You can dissect a brain, but you can't dissect a psyche. Just because the energy in a brain doesn't die, the brain will decay and turn back into some other form of matter.
I doubt heaven is some concrete place where we continue to live as we are, still intact of our personality. I wouldn't want to live like this forever anyway. It would get boring. I like to think that when we die, we penetrate everything and perhaps we gravitate toward similar energy fields to continue to spiral toward the infinite mind.
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As long as man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other.
-Pythagoras
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 11852
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Magnus wrote: | | Awesomelyglorious wrote: | | Magnus wrote: |
Since there is no animal on earth with perfect perception, why would you assume that humans have it? It's not speculation. I've experienced plenty of hallucinations which prove to me that there is a higher reality. ;P |
That does pose an interesting issue for human knowledge. I mean, "hallucinations" are relatively common among otherwise normal individuals. I don't think that most hallucinations have been found to agree with each other to an extent we'd expect with more standard ways of knowing things. But it seems very likely and probable that some human beings will find hallucinations to be good sources of knowledge. Of course, it seems that other individuals will label such things to be absurd and be reasonable to do so....
So, in short, people are crazy, and so long as you don't blame me for that fact, Magnus, I won't blame you. |
There have been plenty of people who believe in the after life. If enough people have hallucinations about God, maybe there is something more to it. You can dissect a brain, but you can't dissect a psyche. Just because the energy in a brain doesn't die, the brain will decay and turn back into some other form of matter.
I doubt heaven is some concrete place where we continue to live as we are, still intact of our personality. I wouldn't want to live like this forever anyway. It would get boring. I like to think that when we die, we penetrate everything and perhaps we gravitate toward similar energy fields to continue to spiral toward the infinite mind. |
Since I have never had a hallucination I cannot view the matter with any authority but the very definition of a hallucination is that it is a false perception so I have to maintain very strong doubts as to any conclusions out of that no matter how many people have had brain disorders. |
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Vince
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 01, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 698
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Magnus wrote: | | I like to think that when we die, we penetrate everything and perhaps we gravitate toward similar energy fields to continue to spiral toward the infinite mind. |
And you expect this to happen while some form of consciousness is still intact, without the structure that according to all scientific observation and logic is essential for a consciousness to exist and function as a system? Well, all I can say is good luck with that.
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I'm Vince. I make the music. And puppet.
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DeaconBlues
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide - call me...
Joined: Apr 22, 2007
Posts: 3908
Location: Earth, mostly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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The flaw I found in Heaven came when I was quoting a section of Genesis to someone, and realized that it describes Earth as being in the expanse God created "between the waters below and the waters above."
Heaven is underwater!!!
Everybody bring your snorkels...
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Sodium is a metal that reacts explosively when exposed to water. Chlorine is a gas that'll kill you dead in moments. Together they make my fries taste good. |
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Magnus
Happy Anarchy Day
Joined: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 2703
Location: Claremont, California
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Sand wrote: | | Magnus wrote: | | Awesomelyglorious wrote: | | Magnus wrote: |
Since there is no animal on earth with perfect perception, why would you assume that humans have it? It's not speculation. I've experienced plenty of hallucinations which prove to me that there is a higher reality. ;P |
That does pose an interesting issue for human knowledge. I mean, "hallucinations" are relatively common among otherwise normal individuals. I don't think that most hallucinations have been found to agree with each other to an extent we'd expect with more standard ways of knowing things. But it seems very likely and probable that some human beings will find hallucinations to be good sources of knowledge. Of course, it seems that other individuals will label such things to be absurd and be reasonable to do so....
So, in short, people are crazy, and so long as you don't blame me for that fact, Magnus, I won't blame you. |
There have been plenty of people who believe in the after life. If enough people have hallucinations about God, maybe there is something more to it. You can dissect a brain, but you can't dissect a psyche. Just because the energy in a brain doesn't die, the brain will decay and turn back into some other form of matter.
I doubt heaven is some concrete place where we continue to live as we are, still intact of our personality. I wouldn't want to live like this forever anyway. It would get boring. I like to think that when we die, we penetrate everything and perhaps we gravitate toward similar energy fields to continue to spiral toward the infinite mind. |
Since I have never had a hallucination I cannot view the matter with any authority but the very definition of a hallucination is that it is a false perception so I have to maintain very strong doubts as to any conclusions out of that no matter how many people have had brain disorders. |
You hallucinate every night when you dream. Healthy minds know the difference between hallucinations and objective reality. There is much that can be learned from dreams, just like there is much to be learned from hallucinations. There is also much to be learned from the imagination. The imagination shapes reality. The imagination is subjective, however it is real to some extent. Just because the imagination cannot be dissected doesn't mean it's not there.
Thank you for reading this...sorry for being so redundant... 
_________________
As long as man continues to be the ruthless destroyer of lower living beings he will never know health or peace. For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other.
-Pythagoras
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 14174
Location: Omnipresent
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Orwell wrote: | | Awesomelyglorious wrote: | | Also, in order for heaven to be heaven, I have to change in ways that may make me unrecognizable to myself. I mean, if heaven is the perfect world, then think about it. Every morose feeling, agitation, or even minor cognitive flaw or false belief has to be gotten rid of. The question is, what kind of person is left over after all of that? It seems hard to distinguish the intrinisic me, from what I think, how I think, or what I believe. |
That's not a problem, as you do not exist and there is no such thing as a person. |
Yeah.... well, I still keep holding to these concepts, despite the fact that I should know better. I think the reason I keep on thinking I am a person is because I am not. If I was a person, then instructing myself that I wasn't would be more straightforward.
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Plus Alpha-Atheistic anti-theist
Member of the WP Strident Atheists
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 11852
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Magnus wrote: | | Sand wrote: | | Magnus wrote: | | Awesomelyglorious wrote: | | Magnus wrote: |
Since there is no animal on earth with perfect perception, why would you assume that humans have it? It's not speculation. I've experienced plenty of hallucinations which prove to me that there is a higher reality. ;P |
That does pose an interesting issue for human knowledge. I mean, "hallucinations" are relatively common among otherwise normal individuals. I don't think that most hallucinations have been found to agree with each other to an extent we'd expect with more standard ways of knowing things. But it seems very likely and probable that some human beings will find hallucinations to be good sources of knowledge. Of course, it seems that other individuals will label such things to be absurd and be reasonable to do so....
So, in short, people are crazy, and so long as you don't blame me for that fact, Magnus, I won't blame you. |
There have been plenty of people who believe in the after life. If enough people have hallucinations about God, maybe there is something more to it. You can dissect a brain, but you can't dissect a psyche. Just because the energy in a brain doesn't die, the brain will decay and turn back into some other form of matter.
I doubt heaven is some concrete place where we continue to live as we are, still intact of our personality. I wouldn't want to live like this forever anyway. It would get boring. I like to think that when we die, we penetrate everything and perhaps we gravitate toward similar energy fields to continue to spiral toward the infinite mind. |
Since I have never had a hallucination I cannot view the matter with any authority but the very definition of a hallucination is that it is a false perception so I have to maintain very strong doubts as to any conclusions out of that no matter how many people have had brain disorders. |
You hallucinate every night when you dream. Healthy minds know the difference between hallucinations and objective reality. There is much that can be learned from dreams, just like there is much to be learned from hallucinations. There is also much to be learned from the imagination. The imagination shapes reality. The imagination is subjective, however it is real to some extent. Just because the imagination cannot be dissected doesn't mean it's not there.
Thank you for reading this...sorry for being so redundant... |
I cannot state what you do when you dream but I certainly do not hallucinate when I dream as I never confuse reality with my dreams. A hallucination is an imposition of a mental misinterpretation over reality and nobody claimed imagination is not there. It is just understood as a separate brain function. |
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ValMikeSmith
Terminal ill with computer virus
Joined: May 19, 2008
Age: 43
Posts: 1265
Location: Stranger in a strange land
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: |
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One of the Mars rovers has a broken Wheel.
It might die soon.
But it's spirit will live here on earth, in the scientist who remote controls it,
and has seen through it's cameras.
A spirit of a dreamer is in a place that is not on earth.
THERE IS A LOT OF WATER IN HEAVEN.
On ALL the other planets. The Moon. Comets. Jupiter's moons.
The whole universe seems to be a sonoluminescent bubble.*
The COBE image of the deepest space looks
the same to me as a thermal image of a pond in a breeze.
* "And God moved upon the face of the deep/waters..."
- "And God said LET THERE BE LIGHT" |
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Sand
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 11852
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| ValMikeSmith wrote: | One of the Mars rovers has a broken Wheel.
It might die soon.
But it's spirit will live here on earth, in the scientist who remote controls it,
and has seen through it's cameras.
A spirit of a dreamer is in a place that is not on earth.
THERE IS A LOT OF WATER IN HEAVEN.
On ALL the other planets. The Moon. Comets. Jupiter's moons.
The whole universe seems to be a sonoluminescent bubble.*
The COBE image of the deepest space looks
the same to me as a thermal image of a pond in a breeze.
* "And God moved upon the face of the deep/waters..."
- "And God said LET THERE BE LIGHT" |
You should step outside a space capsule in orbit sometime, naked and eager for a dive into the vacuum. You'd be surprised how welcoming it would be. |
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