alex
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 Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:39 am Post subject: Financial crisis been blamed on people with Asperger's! (wtf |
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| Quote: | COLUMN - Did Asperger's help cause the crisis?: James Saft
(James Saft is a Reuters columnist. The opinions expressed are his own)
By Jim Saft
HUNTSVILLE, Ala. (Reuters) - Did the financial system blow up because it was built and largely operated by people with many of the characteristics of a mild form of autism called Asperger's syndrome?
As explanations for the crisis go, it's on the extreme side but forms an interesting counterpoint to the "blame the looting bankers" story line.
People with Asperger's, a mild form of autism, are characterized by, among other things, a deficit of "theory of mind," essentially the ability to understand that other people have different beliefs or knowledge than themselves. Nicholas Nassim Taleb, author of The Black Swan, has written that a lack of theory of mind left many in positions of responsibility without the ability to conceive of and guard against black swans, which are rare, high-impact and hard to predict events.
There were, after all, a remarkable number of people blaming "hundred-year storms" for the crisis, which was at least in substantial part caused by an over-reliance on risk management controls and models that proved to be far too narrow. There was a love of data and a refusal to conceive of the data being not wrong, but incomplete, which led many to cling to their models of how the world was working even as it fell around them. Remember all of those reassurances that problems in subprime were "contained"?
"Note that the very same people who attack me, on grounds of political correctness, for discussing Asperger as a condition not compatible with risk-bearing, and its dangers to society, would be opposed to using a person with highly impaired eyesight as the driver of a school bus," Taleb writes in his typically provocative style.
"All I am saying is that just as I read Milton, Homer, Taha Husain, and Borges (who were blind) but would prefer to not have them drive me on the A-4 motorway, I elect to use tools made by engineers but prefer to have society's risks managed by someone who is not affected with risk-blindness."
As someone with a family member with Asperger's, I think there is a lot of truth to what Taleb says, though perhaps he expresses himself too gruffly. A love of data and models and an unwillingness to engage with ambiguity that can often mean missing the big picture are characteristic of both Asperger's and of the global financial system circa 2007. This is a far different thing from blaming the crisis on people with Asperger's, which Taleb does not.
Actually, and here I am fishing in shallower waters than Taleb, there are elements of a typical Asperger's personality which are extremely useful in guarding against manias and bubbles.
THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES
People with Asperger's Syndrome are largely immune to social pressures; they often do not recognize them, or if they do, dismiss them as silly. They can be, in many ways, like the child in the Hans Christian Andersen story "The Emperor's New Clothes." In the story the emperor is sold a new suit made of a fabric that supposedly will be invisible to anyone who is not fit for the position they hold. The suit is a fraud, but the emperor, afraid of being one himself, pretends to be able to see it. Everyone else plays along until the emperor meets a child who calls it as he sees it and pierces the illusion.
Typical people, in order to make the numberless decisions they are forced to make with only limited data, rely heavily on taking their clues from what other people are doing -- following the herd. This has a certain efficiency but, as people place a heavy weight on what others are doing, leaves them open to be swept up in manias or bubbles.
This is true for individuals buying houses in 2005 because "everyone knows they will only go up" and it is true for fund managers making "momentum" investments in dotcom stocks. Fashion, for most people, is a powerful faculty-numbing force; just leaf through some old magazines and check out what people were wearing round about 1971.
For people on the Asperger's spectrum this is far less true; regardless of what people are talking about at cocktail parties, they won't believe that we can all grow rich by buying up one another's houses, nor will they take assurances from "authorities" as the final word. Having less fear of looking stupid than the rest of us, they will stand by what they perceive. They are also, at least in my experience, far less likely than the average person to hold a position cynically; because it benefits them rather than because they believe it.
That might not be the only type of person you want in a financial system, but those are some pretty valuable characteristics for a fund manger or banking regulator.
(Editing by James Dalgleish)
(At the time of publication James Saft did not own any direct investments in securities mentioned in this article. He may be an owner indirectly as an investor in a fund) |
link:
http://in.reuters.com/article/economicNews/idINIndia-45896420100204?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0 |
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gramirez
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Oh. my. god.
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alex
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: |
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The author of this article misunderstands "theory of mind" and caricaturizes us as sociopaths without conscience. I'm offended. This is the type of misinformation that creates problems for individuals with Asperger's in the workplace and in society as a whole.
| Quote: | People with Asperger's, a mild form of autism, are characterized by, among other things, a deficit of "theory of mind," essentially the ability to understand that other people have different beliefs or knowledge than themselves. Nicholas Nassim Taleb, author of The Black Swan, has written that a lack of theory of mind left many in positions of responsibility without the ability to conceive of and guard against black swans, which are rare, high-impact and hard to predict events.
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Asp-Z
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Unless all the subprime mortgage guys were all Aspies, that's BS  |
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DemonAbyss10
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:53 am Post subject: |
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I say lynch the person who wrote the article, no really, i am being dead serious for once. If anything id blame the illogical, irrational normals who are the majority. They are just scared of us, the minority, and refuse to even try to understand us. Why is all of this starting to remind me of the anti-natural propaganda in the book im writing. There are many parallels between the genetically modifieds vs naturals in my book to the whole NT vs everyone else mentality. Thats it, the main scientist that helps out the naturals shall have aspergers, so i can make an evwen bigger point.
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shukri
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:55 am Post subject: |
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I thought it was caused by greedy people who knew they were doing something wrong but figured someone else would clean the mess up. Regardless, Jim Saft is clearly not aspie - only an NT could put forward something this illogical  |
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zeldapsychology
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Wow Alex what an interesting article. I'd think since Aspies tend not to follow what everyone else does We'd do BETTER than NT counterparts that just say everything's A OK! When it's really not! I think that behavior mentality of everything's going to be ok is WORSE than not seeing certain things as the article mentions. Sure we might not but atleast we are logical and don't sweep everything under a rug.  |
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alex
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| shukri wrote: | | I thought it was caused by greedy people who knew they were doing something wrong but figured someone else would clean the mess up. Regardless, Jim Saft is clearly not aspie - only an NT could put forward something this illogical |
quoted for truth. |
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DemonAbyss10
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| alex wrote: | | shukri wrote: | | I thought it was caused by greedy people who knew they were doing something wrong but figured someone else would clean the mess up. Regardless, Jim Saft is clearly not aspie - only an NT could put forward something this illogical |
quoted for truth. |
quoted as the ultimate truth.
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sinsboldly
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Alan Greenspan said as much about himself. He just considered economics as an intersting hobby, he wasn't so much interested in the actual people's lives he impacted.
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PlatedDrake
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Havent you figured out that its human nature to blame the outsider for its problems? "Blame the minority group because they dont have the numbers to counterpoint what we say, thus averting our personal disaster and focusing the public on something else." If memory serves, this is similar to the reason the KKK was created . . . what next, the Anti-Autism Association (AAA). Oh wait, that's Autism Speaks . Redirection seems to be an NT defense mechanism, think it was mentioned in "Animal Behavior" by Temple Grandin. |
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bicentennialman
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| That's some really bizarre reasoning there (actually, I don't think you can call that "reasoning"). The writer seems to think that he can describe all people with Asperger's (or with a certain personality) as the same, based on his understanding of a few broad characterizations. He's missing the fact that everyone is their own person; it's never that simple. Does this indicate a faulty "theory of mind" on the part of the author? ; ) |
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TPE2
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:27 am Post subject: |
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hoe neurtypical mentality created the finacial crisis:
| TPE2 wrote: | Imagine that an autistic person is making a decision about an investment (buying shares, make a mortgage loan, anything) – he will study the numbers (the “fundamentals”), and he will decide if the investment is good or bad using the numbers.
For example, an autistic bank analyst deciding if he should give a loan to someone to buy an house: he will look to the price of the house and the historical of the prices of this kind of houses compared with GDP. If he sees that the ratio price houses / GDP is higher that it used to be, he will came to conclusion that house are over-priced, that the prices will have a slump and he will refuses the loan.
Now, an NT analyst – unlike autistics, he have the famous “theory of mind” and he will not only look to the numbers but he will also “think about other people think” – he will think “at the paper, these houses seems much expensive; but, if the houses were realy expensive, the other people already should had noticed that, selling the houses and making the price lower; then, the current price of the houses are the CORRECT price, because, if it was not the correct price, other people will already had noticed that” (the so-called “efficient-market hypothesis”), and he will make the loan.
Then, a financial market managed by NTs will be prone to intense speculation and cyclical “booms-and-busts”, because, even if the prices are much higher (or lower) they will assume that the price is the correct price (if everybody is buying/selling at this price…) and, instead of buying when the price is low and selling when is high (automatically correcting the excesses of the market), thy will buy when the price is high and sell when is low (amplifying these excesses).
[sorry by my bad English] |
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DemonAbyss10
The Drill That Pierces The Heavens
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| PlatedDrake wrote: | | Havent you figured out that its human nature to blame the outsider for its problems? "Blame the minority group because they dont have the numbers to counterpoint what we say, thus averting our personal disaster and focusing the public on something else." If memory serves, this is similar to the reason the KKK was created . . . what next, the Anti-Autism Association (AAA). Oh wait, that's Autism Speaks . Redirection seems to be an NT defense mechanism, think it was mentioned in "Animal Behavior" by Temple Grandin. |
hence why NTs are truly the inferior ones that are at fault behind everything. They are the closest to following 'human nature'. I somehow feel that the whole anit-autism movement is really just getting started.
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TPE2
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| Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Financial crisis been blamed on people with Asperger's! |
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| alex wrote: | | Quote: | COLUMN - Did Asperger's help cause the crisis?: James Saft
(James Saft is a Reuters columnist. The opinions expressed are his own)
By Jim Saft
Actually, and here I am fishing in shallower waters than Taleb, there are elements of a typical Asperger's personality which are extremely useful in guarding against manias and bubbles.
THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES
People with Asperger's Syndrome are largely immune to social pressures; they often do not recognize them, or if they do, dismiss them as silly. They can be, in many ways, like the child in the Hans Christian Andersen story "The Emperor's New Clothes." In the story the emperor is sold a new suit made of a fabric that supposedly will be invisible to anyone who is not fit for the position they hold. The suit is a fraud, but the emperor, afraid of being one himself, pretends to be able to see it. Everyone else plays along until the emperor meets a child who calls it as he sees it and pierces the illusion.
Typical people, in order to make the numberless decisions they are forced to make with only limited data, rely heavily on taking their clues from what other people are doing -- following the herd. This has a certain efficiency but, as people place a heavy weight on what others are doing, leaves them open to be swept up in manias or bubbles.
This is true for individuals buying houses in 2005 because "everyone knows they will only go up" and it is true for fund managers making "momentum" investments in dotcom stocks. Fashion, for most people, is a powerful faculty-numbing force; just leaf through some old magazines and check out what people were wearing round about 1971.
For people on the Asperger's spectrum this is far less true; regardless of what people are talking about at cocktail parties, they won't believe that we can all grow rich by buying up one another's houses, nor will they take assurances from "authorities" as the final word. Having less fear of looking stupid than the rest of us, they will stand by what they perceive. They are also, at least in my experience, far less likely than the average person to hold a position cynically; because it benefits them rather than because they believe it.
That might not be the only type of person you want in a financial system, but those are some pretty valuable characteristics for a fund manger or banking regulator.
(Editing by James Dalgleish)
(At the time of publication James Saft did not own any direct investments in securities mentioned in this article. He may be an owner indirectly as an investor in a fund) |
link:
http://in.reuters.com/article/economicNews/idINIndia-45896420100204?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0 |
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