mgran
Phoenix
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Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 1864
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 Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:34 am Post subject: My Polish Challenge |
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Hey folks.
As some of you will have noticed, I'm a polyglot. I love languages. However, there are certain languages that I've always been nervous of, since they seem like they're so hard to learn. I once considered German to be in that category, but I got my A level a few years ago. I once thought Flemish was in that category, but I had a great conversation about the superiority of women's football over the man's game last year in Belgium.
In other words, when I get over feeling nervous about making mistakes I can make a fool of myself in any language.
Polish has always been described as one of the hardest languages to learn because of it's sophisticated grammar. Although I do speak Russian, it's grammar is relatively straight forward, and though I've understood bits and bobs of Polish when spoken, I've never studied it at all... not one syllable.
I've decided that I'm going to change that. There are plenty of Polish people in the UK I can practice my skills on, and I've decided that this time I am going to make my language learning process a bit more public.
So, starting the day my course arrives in the post I will be asking you guys to follow and laugh at me while I commence on a new language.
Any Polish speakers here ready to urge me on?
Thankyou! |
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Valoyossa
Humanoid
Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 2287
Location: Freie Stadt Danzig
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:38 am Post subject: |
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I can help you if you need it. Polish is hardcore, only for the better than the best language learners.
Ok, so let's start... 
Co chcesz konkretnie wiedzieć?
_________________
Change Your Frequency, when you're talking to me!
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Das gehört verboten! http://tinyurl.com/toobigtoosmall size does matter after all
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My Industrial Love: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBo5K0ZQIEY |
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mgran
Phoenix
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Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 1864
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Moohahaha! I like that language book!
Okay, I'm officially going to start on Friday. Tomorrow I'm out of the house all day. I can make a start on Friday, hope to really go at it from Monday when my son is back at school.
Thank you Valoyossa... are you Polish by any chance? |
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Valoyossa
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Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 2287
Location: Freie Stadt Danzig
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm Polish Grammar Nazi, so don't fear. If I say it's right! it means that it's right. I know grammar better than most Poles
Polish words are as spelled as they're written. If you know how to read every letter, you should read the sentences correctly. Polish letter are pronounced similar to German, so it can be easy for you.
So let's have some fun
Letter - (its name) - how to speak
A - (a) - ah, exactly like German A
Ą - (ą) - on, like French bon
B - (be) - b
C - (ce) - tz
CH - (ce-ha) - ach-laut, like loch, noch, doch, dach
CZ - (ce-zet) - ch like check or change
Ć - (cie) - soft cz or tshhh, say cheese softly and quickly
D - (de) - d
DZ - (de-zet) - dtz
DŹ - (de-ziet) - soft dz, sounds similar to ć
E - (e) - like in ten or dead
Ę - (ę) - like French "je t'aime", Poles would write it "że tę"
F - (ef) - f
G - (gie) - g like gone or good
H - (ha) - ach-laut again - originally aspirated H, but almost nobody uses it, most people speak ach-laut
I - (i) - i like in or is
J - (jot) - like in German ja - Polish word ja means me, in some regions also yes
K - (ka) - k
L - (el) - l
Ł - (eł) - like w in water or u in laut
M - (em) - m
N - (en) - n
Ń - (eń) - say nee quickly
O - (o) - like on-off
Ó - (ó, ó zamknięte, ó z kreską) - oo like good or u in gut
P - (pe) - p
Q - (ku) - used very rarely
R - (er) - alveolar trill, like Spanish (I can't pronounce this letter and I use uvular trill like in Rosenrot)
RZ - (er-zet) - zh like je t'aime
S - (es) - s
SZ - (es-zet) - sh like shadow
Ś - (eś) - soft sh or ich-laut like German ich
T - (te) - t
U - (u, u otwarte) - like in gut or like w in words like auto
V - (fau) - the same sound like W (Polish) or F - used very rarely
W - (wu) - V like Vendetta  or like in German was
X - (iks) - used very rarely
Y - (y or igrek) - deep i, like üüüü, like in Glück or bitte
Z - (zet) - z
Ż - (żet) - zh like je t'aime
Ź - (ziet) - soft zh, say zhee quickly
Proste, prawda? 
_________________
Change Your Frequency, when you're talking to me!
----
Das gehört verboten! http://tinyurl.com/toobigtoosmall size does matter after all
----
My Industrial Love: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBo5K0ZQIEY |
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mgran
Phoenix
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Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 1864
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:21 am Post subject: |
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I thought I'd lost this thread! Just dug it out.
Okay, so I'm having my first lesson today, I'll be back on, tell you what I've learned, and hopefully it won't be so hard to find the thread next time! |
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26039
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| I had a Polish friend at one time and even he said it was an odd language. |
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Valoyossa
Humanoid
Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 2287
Location: Freie Stadt Danzig
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Polish is hardcore in grammar, but I think that English pronunciation is more odd. If you know Polish alphabet, you can read everything. If you know English alphabet, it doesn't matter. Polish is also easier to understand, because we speak exactly like we write. Polish is harsher than English, so it's easier to hear the words. English sounds like mumbling, like dumplings in mouth, it's full of ooooh, oooowwww and ouuuu.
Polish verbs:
Liczba pojedyncza (singular):
1. Ja - verbs end with -ę (read -e), sometimes with -m
2. Ty - end with -ś or -sz
3. On/Ona/Ono - end with any vowel, except ę, u and ą
Liczba mnoga (plural):
1. My - end with -my
2. Wy - end with -cie
3. Oni/One - end with -ą
Przykłady (examples)
być (to be), mieć (to have), robić (to do) - as you can see, every infinitive ends with -ć
Liczba pojedyncza:
1. Ja jestem, mam, robię
2. Ty jesteś, masz, robisz
3. On/Ona/Ono jest, ma, robi
Liczba mnoga:
1. My jesteśmy, mamy, robimy
2. Wy jesteście, macie, robicie
3. Oni/One są, mają, robią
_________________
Change Your Frequency, when you're talking to me!
----
Das gehört verboten! http://tinyurl.com/toobigtoosmall size does matter after all
----
My Industrial Love: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBo5K0ZQIEY
Last edited by Valoyossa on Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mgran
Phoenix
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Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 1864
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Can you help me linguistically, Tequilla? If so, feel free to contribute. Otherwise... I know of no odder language than English, linguistically speaking. Your spelling is utterly unphonetic, and a ludicrously high percentage of your verbs are irregular.
I posted in the linguistics section because I wanted help from linguists, specifically in the Polish language.
By the way... Valyossa, I've made a slow start with Polish, and found similarities with Russian. (As I suppose you would expect.) My first lesson didn't cover much... so far it seems rather Russian. I've done present tense, verb to be... as you can imagine, not too challenging. But the verb to be is rather different from Russian... in Russian you only use "Ya" with no verb... in Polish there is a verb and personal pronoun combined... can I ask, are the two the same, or does it just sound that way? |
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Valoyossa
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Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 2287
Location: Freie Stadt Danzig
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:45 am Post subject: |
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If Poles speak Russian, the English speak German!
Polish is West Slavic, Russian is East Slavic.
English is West Germanic, German is West Germanic.
Polish and Russian ja means me.
In Russian you speak ja + adj. (it looks like I happy)
In Polish you speak ja + jestem + adj. (I am happy)
Ja jestem szczęśliwa .(I am happy; feminine)
Ja jestem szczęśliwy. (masculine)
Ty jesteś szczęśliwy. (masculine)
Ono jest szczęśliwe. (neutral)
Ewa jest szczęśliwa.
Adam jest szczęśliwy.
Adam i Ewa są szczęśliwi.
_________________
Change Your Frequency, when you're talking to me!
----
Das gehört verboten! http://tinyurl.com/toobigtoosmall size does matter after all
----
My Industrial Love: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBo5K0ZQIEY |
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Cade
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 07, 2005
Age: 41
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mgran wrote: | Can you help me linguistically, Tequilla? If so, feel free to contribute. Otherwise... I know of no odder language than English, linguistically speaking. Your spelling is utterly unphonetic, and a ludicrously high percentage of your verbs are irregular.
I posted in the linguistics section because I wanted help from linguists, specifically in the Polish language.
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I don't think Tequila meant any offense. No need to get so hostile. Makes me regret trying to befriend you in the German thread. Perhaps it was good you didn't bother to respond!
In defense of English, there's nothing "ludicrous" about the organic evolution of a language and if you understand the evolution of English, its "oddness" makes sense. Languages are only odd until you get familiar with them. I would think a "polyglot" would understand that.
English has had a very unique evolution--the number of irregular verbs come from its ancient Germanic roots. Ever study Latin? Then you know ancient languages were not "streamlined" the way many modern languages are. English has never "streamlined" its verbs the way some other modern languages have. So what? How is that really any different than Polish's complicated grammar? Would you likewise say "German vocabulary is so nitpickingly precise it's a joke" or "French has far more verb tenses than any languages should have"? Every language you encounter will have aspects that are more challenging to you than other aspects.
English pronunciation and spelling are due to centuries of influence of Celtic languages, Norse, Latin and French as well as regional divergences and a wide variety of changes in orthography. Bear in mind English was once the minority language in its own country, third in prominence after French and Latin, and sequestered largely to the Welsh-speaking region of the island where it was "street language" among a mostly uneducated English-speaking population. It's a wonder it survived at all, let alone become one of the world's most spoken languages. English had to adapt or die out. It adapted, and was shaped by its own ever changing world until we got the highly unique language we have today. English's adaptability, and its ability to incorporate aspects of languages around it, has been its strength, even if it makes it seem awkward in certain ways to people whose native language had a different evolution.
Complain all you like about how this doesn't help you learn Polish, but you were the one who decided to use this thread to insult another person's native language--especially with that belittling "your verbs" and "your spelling" tone--which I think is the height of rudeness from someone calling themselves a polyglot. |
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Valoyossa
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Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 2287
Location: Freie Stadt Danzig
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mgran
Phoenix
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Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 1864
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| Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Cade, sorry I didn't see you again on the German thread. I sometimes find it hard to remember where I've posted.
If I've offended anyone English, I apologise. I shouldn't let my personal issues cloud threads that ... really, should be about the OP (in this case, learning Polish.)
If this thread looks like being swamped because of my "hostility" I'll start a new one, and would ask you to very kindly just let me get on with learning Polish.
Again, I apologise if I've inadvertently insulted anyone. Personally I love the illogicality of English... if you can learn English, you can learn anything. |
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Valoyossa
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Age: 26
Posts: 2287
Location: Freie Stadt Danzig
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mgran
Phoenix
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Joined: May 23, 2009
Posts: 1864
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| Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Hi Valoyossa, I've had one of those weeks. Still don't know what you're saying...
Okay, off for my lesson now, I'll tell you what I can say in an hour or so. Kick my butt by pm if I don't check in here a couple of times a week... pretty please?
Thanks! |
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Valoyossa
Humanoid
Joined: Feb 21, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 2287
Location: Freie Stadt Danzig
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| Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to tell EVERYONE: Don't use Google translator to any Polish sentence!
It makes horrible mistakes.
Example: I jak idzie nauka?
It means: How about your learning?
Google: I like doing science?
Example: Small gray box
Google: Małe szare pole
It means: Small gray field
Etc, etc...
_________________
Change Your Frequency, when you're talking to me!
----
Das gehört verboten! http://tinyurl.com/toobigtoosmall size does matter after all
----
My Industrial Love: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBo5K0ZQIEY |
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