Glenn
Blue Jay
Joined: Nov 01, 2004
Posts: 96
Location: I am here, but its not where I belong.
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 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:30 am Post subject: Meltdowns |
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Please excuse the ignorance in someone who actually has a formal diagnosis of AS, but what exactly is a 'meltdown"? I have seen the term used occasionally in these forums, and while I think I can gather what is meant, I would appreciate it if someone could explain exactly what it is. what causes it, and what happens when you have one. And is it something that can be experienced at any age?
Thank you
Glenn
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'All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night .... wake in the day to find that it was vanity:but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible' (T.E.Lawrence) |
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ljbouchard
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 1278
Location: Rochester Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:36 am Post subject: |
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I usually equate meltdowns and rages as the same thing so excuse me for that.
A meltdown is when the brain starts to shut down due to an overload of information from one if its senses. Usually rage attacks are part of the meltdown as instinct takes over although not necessarily. When I was 10, I had a meltdown that resulted in me wanting to flee rather than fight.
I hope that helps.
_________________
Louis J Bouchard
Rochester Minnesota
"Only when all those who surround you are different, do you truly belong."
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Fred Tate Little Man Tate |
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Ghosthunter
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 20, 2005
Posts: 2473
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: I hope this helps? |
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[Glenn
Blue Jay
Joined: Nov 01, 2004
Posts: 85
Location: I am here, but its not where
I belong.
Please excuse the ignorance in someone
who actually has a formal diagnosis of AS,
but what exactly is a 'meltdown"? I have
seen the term used occasionally in these
forums, and while I think I can gather what
is meant, I would appreciate it if someone
could explain exactly what it is. what causes
it, and what happens when you have one.
And is it something that can be experienced
at any age?
Thank you
Glenn]
Here are some examples of how I
percieve the experience.
[One mistake begins another, and
the minutes of failure become
successive bombardment that
my focus on I-Physical couldn't
take all at once. She(Superv')
gripes, customers don't know
how to be consistent and it's
"ALWAYS" my fault gripes sup'
and she says then speed it up.
Venomous thoughts come, I-physical
head lowers, eye's can't be met
until the final blow. I will have....
and when I give her the total
sale she says that total is wrong
and I reverify, sup' is griping, line
is developing. sup' takes over and
head dropping, eye's not focusing,
and sup' griping
Another example:
I got into a subconscious stage around
her and she doesn't understand it, but
said something profound on how I
respond to her and my autistic space
zoning around her. "Are you Drunk",
and I would like to say NO!-I DON'T DRINK,
but I am on defensive mode and lights
and sound fade into a cylinder of me in
my head. They bounce inside
with a echoing sound and I am unable to
respond. This is like being underwater and
all you hear are the vibrations and are
unable to respond properly. This
rarely happens to me but occasionally I will
have a day like this. ]
So what you can say a meltdown is
a overwhelming set of experiences
that do a sensory overload that require
one to step away, or flee(I have also
done that). It can be translated
as rage(if one enacts that), Fleeing
(if one remains in a focused states
as possible).
I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Ghosthunter
Last edited by Ghosthunter on Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:48 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Ghosthunter
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 20, 2005
Posts: 2473
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:06 pm Post subject: I hope this helps? |
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[Glenn
Blue Jay
Joined: Nov 01, 2004
Posts: 85
Location: I am here, but its not where
I belong.
Please excuse the ignorance in someone
who actually has a formal diagnosis of AS,
but what exactly is a 'meltdown"? I have
seen the term used occasionally in these
forums, and while I think I can gather what
is meant, I would appreciate it if someone
could explain exactly what it is. what causes
it, and what happens when you have one.
And is it something that can be experienced
at any age?
Thank you
Glenn]
Here are some examples of how I
percieve the experience.
[One mistake begins another, and
the minutes of failure become
successive bombardment that
my focus on I-Physical couldn't
take all at once. She(Superv')
gripes, customers don't know
how to be consistent and it's
"ALWAYS" my fault gripes sup'
and she says then speed it up.
Venomous thoughts come, I-physical
head lowers, eye's can't be met
until the final blow. I will have....
and when I give her the total
sale she says that total is wrong
and I reverify, sup' is griping, line
is developing. sup' takes over and
head dropping, eye's not focusing,
and sup' griping I would later write
&
I got into a subconscious stage around
her and she doesn't understand it, but
said something profound on how I
respond to her and my autistic space
zoning around her. "Are you Drunk",
and I would like to say NO!-I DON'T DRINK,
but I am on defensive mode and lights
and sound fade into a cylinder of me in
my head. They bounce inside
with a echoing sound and I am unable to
respond. This is like being underwater and
all you hear are the vibrations and are
unable to respond properly. This
rarely happens to me but occasionally I will
have a day like this. ]
Sincerely,
Ghosthunter |
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Jetson
The Map Maker
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 1219
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Meltdowns |
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| Glenn wrote: | | I would appreciate it if someone could explain exactly what it is. what causes it, and what happens when you have one. And is it something that can be experienced at any age? |
Have you heard of the stress/performance curve? It's a bell-shaped curve that maps stress on the horizontal axis and human performance on the vertical axis. A person who is feeling no stress is essentially comatose. As stress increases our ability to perform tasks improves to a point. Beyond that point, any addition stress results in less effective performance as mental energy is drained away in preparation for a fight-or-flight reaction. If we are unable to escape or alleviate the stress, eventually our performance level drops to the point where we are incapable of performing any cognitive task. At that point people tend to become fatalistic and/or overcome by emotions such as rage or depression.
The difference between NT and AS seems to be a combination of the ambient stress levels we face and how sharply we decline after passing the point of peak performance. An NT person is less likely to reach the zero-performance point because the stress-inducing situations seem to be more controllable and build slower, allowing time for fight-or-flight to resolve the situation. When they *do* reach the zero-performance point they are essentially having a "mental breakdown" and require help to recover because the stress is caused by circumstances that are not easily resolved. Aspies, on the other hand, tend to be more sensitive to environmental stresses (i.e. sensory overload) and therefore "meltdown" on the back side of the performance curve very quickly. The stress is usually easily removed, and recovery is pretty much automatic.
As an aside: There is a third option after fight and flight (as presented on http://www.guidetopsychology.com/stress.htm in the "aviation" section of the page), which is to supress the biological reaction to stress and accept it as a mental challenge. This is not a natural method of dealing with stress, but can be learned through repeated exposure to simulated stresses so that a tolerance is developed. It is this training that allows a pilot to fly a disabled aircraft all the way to impact whereas an untrained person would tend to either freeze up or let go of the controls and accept the accident as inevitable. When I learned to fly an airplane, the "usual attitudes" and "in-flight emergencies" training was the most difficult part of the syllabus, but the ability to keep control of my head under stress has benefited me in almost every other aspect of my life. As a result I very rarely suffer from "meltdowns".
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What would Flying Spaghetti Monster do? |
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ljbouchard
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 1278
Location: Rochester Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Jetson, I like your explaination better. 
_________________
Louis J Bouchard
Rochester Minnesota
"Only when all those who surround you are different, do you truly belong."
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Fred Tate Little Man Tate |
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Ghosthunter
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 20, 2005
Posts: 2473
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: How I answer questions! |
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My way of explaining the "meltdown"
experience is based on a feeling,
or subconscious basis or writing.
I find book terms not so reliable
since they don't really convey
the internal feeling but outward
symptoms.
In autistic perspectives one experiences
one way and another another way.
It is hard to write the "Gaze" from
their shoes(the AS/HFA person).
I will give a example:
Present Day:
I work a frontdesk Friday-Sunday.
I work PM shifts for 3 days, and a
morning shift for 1 day. This will
constitute my 21 hours rent.
Past Tense:
There was a time when I was laid
off and worked full-time and cleaned
the ashtrays, vacummed the rugs,
thoroughly cleaned(bleach, pinesole)
the restrooms and no one else did
anything. I WAS BLAMED FOR
EVERY PROBLEM, AND WAS ALWAYS
YELLED AT by the owner for being
lazy, stupid, and threatened with
3 day notices. I finally got a job
and will not tolerate this 1 year,
10 months jail sentence. Now
he tries to be nice, but has a special
place in my meltdown mode
that will burst out occasionally.
Meltdown space:
I cannot read a book without interuption,
yet silence for hours until I pick up
my relaxing hobbies. Ring! Ring! goes
the phone, Where do you find?, ect...
would bombard my already high HFA
alert senses. This morning I was
trying to find peace with posting my
usual memo's and kept getting interupted
and being that I woke up in a negative mood,
I growl at his(owner's) inlaw, and low-and-
behold walks in the owner, and then he
decides to Yell at me, for nothing important.
I say don't take me there! He persists
and threatens me with the usual 3 day
notice, I experience a melt down(though
this wouldn't describe the experiencing of
it) and now I am writing posts to help you
folks and "de-venomize".
The Point:
I gave you a I-Physical point of a "meltdown
mode" and it is not as effective as say
a subconcious one.
Sincerely,
Ghosthunter |
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Bec
Obsessing and Stressing
Joined: Aug 18, 2004
Age: 25
Posts: 1918
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Jetson's explanation was perfect.
I've noticed that meltdowns affect me in two ways. Either I go into a hysteric rage or I just shutdown. |
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JayShaw
Hawk (Site Admin)
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
Age: 33
Posts: 229
Location: Alexandria, Virginia (United States)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I have never experienced anything remotely like a meltdown or nervous breakdown. Are these events typical for people who have Asperger's Syndrome? |
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Jetson
The Map Maker
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 1219
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| JayShaw wrote: | | I have never experienced anything remotely like a meltdown or nervous breakdown. Are these events typical for people who have Asperger's Syndrome? |
They are possible for both NT and AS, depending on the types of stresses in the environment and our personal conditioning. Either you have face less stress than the rest of us or you deal with it better than most others.
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What would Flying Spaghetti Monster do? |
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Civet
The Practical Cat
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I have not had a "meltdown," (unless my tantrums as a child count, but I don't remember them well) but I've had "shutdowns" before. The worst was last semester, when I basically lost the capacity to think or reason. I could barely form words, let alone sentences, and I felt like I was in permanent overload.
Because of this, I can understand Jetson's Bell curve model quite well. I do get overwhelmed in situations much more easily than most people, and as it reaches the breaking point, I have to be careful not to let it roll over that peak, because it's a fast downhill ride from there. |
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ElfMan
Forum Moderator
Joined: Dec 17, 2004
Posts: 557
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Melt down's are not just assosiated to negative experiences for me. And I would describe a Melt down as a Shut down that has been pushed beyond itergrating capabilities. A Shut down is result of Overload and not getting time out.
Shutdown: A shut down can happen for me by way of being overstimulated by environment, including people. I have a friend that tells an interesting story by talking in a voice that fluctuates in speed pitch and volume. At the same time she is pacing back and forth, while waving her arms all over the place.
I am ammused by her behaviour, but because I have to make sense of it, which I cannot, my brain gets overloaded and begins to shut down. Not even her words make sense while she is doing all these movements. From trying to comprehend, I overload my comprehention abililties to the point where they need to be put in reserve power while they recharge.
Overload feels like one thing at a time is closing down in my brain.
Shutdown is when everything has shut down in my brain.
If while in this state, I am unable to go somewhere quiet and allow the recharge, or more responsibilities that incorporate comprehension are given to me, or expectations of me to increase performance are put on me, I will move into MeltDown stage.
In MeltDown, I feel like I am floating out above my body. Like I am operating my body with a remote control that is not fuctioning properly. I can hardly speak, I may grunt mostly. I can hardly hear, well I can hear but it makes no sense to me.
Same with sight. I can see, but what is it I am looking at??
Meltdown can take weeks to get through.
Until recently, I have been unaware of what these processes are and what causes them. I have gone into meltdown without being aware of the first stages of the process.
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ElfMan
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Ghosthunter
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 20, 2005
Posts: 2473
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject: The good things about meltdown. |
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[ElfMan
Sea Gull
Joined: Dec 17, 2004
Posts: 238
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Shutdown: A shut down can happen
for me by way of being overstimulated
by environment, including people. I have
a friend that tells an interesting story
by talking in a voice that fluctuates in
speed pitch and volume. At the same
time she is pacing back and forth, while
waving her arms all over the place.
I overload my comprehention abililties
to the point where they need to be
put in reserve power while they recharge.
If while in this state, I am unable to go
somewhere quiet and allow the recharge,
or more responsibilities that incorporate
comprehension are given to me, or
expectations of me to increase performance
are put on me, I will move into MeltDown
stage. ]
From Ghosthunter,
I find sound a good distraction to
meltdown, but only sometimes. I will
use Sound bombardment to induce a
state and the best studying I will do
will occur,and time passes without
cognitive awareness of it. Have you
discovered this particular gift yet?
[ElfMan
Sea Gull
Joined: Dec 17, 2004
Posts: 238
Location: Adelaide, Australia
In MeltDown, I feel like I am floating out above
my body. Like I am operating my body with a
remote control that is not fuctioning properly.
I can hardly speak, I may grunt mostly. I can
hardly hear, well I can hear but it makes no
sense to me, Same with sight. I can see,
but what is it I am looking at?? . Until recently,
I have been unaware of what these processes
are and what causes them.]
From Ghosthunter,
•What was the event that caused this awareness?
•I am glad it is not just me seeing this meltdown
experience beyond a text book explanation. |
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synchro
Toucan
Joined: Feb 08, 2005
Posts: 252
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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When I become overloaded I go into a shutdown mode like Civet described. My thought processes come to a halt and I can’t function. When I reach this state, the only method I have of coping is to leave the situation that caused it. I do not want anyone speaking to me when I am in that state. I just need to be left alone. At that point, I no longer care about anyone else’s problems, whether work needs to be finished, or even whether I will lose my job. I will leave that situation, no matter what the consequences.
When this happens I either go home to sleep, or I grab my backpack and head for the hills. I prefer the latter.
The only thing that brings me to this state is work related stress. An overbearing, critical boss, accompanied by irritating co-workers, with time constraints on the work being done, forced multi-tasking, with added environmental distractions, will eventually lead to a shutdown. Since this is an extremely unpleasant experience, I intend to limit my exposure to anything that causes it. I simply will not work in any environment that will induce this phenomenon.
I’m not sure the term “meltdown” has a specific meaning. To some, it may mean a shutdown like I described while to others it may mean a flash-temper episode. |
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Glenn
Blue Jay
Joined: Nov 01, 2004
Posts: 96
Location: I am here, but its not where I belong.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
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Well, I'd like to say thank you to everyone who has replied ... and anyone who might care to add a post after this one!
I guess"meltdown" might mean spomething slightly different to each person who esperiences it. What prompted my original question was an incident that happened to me some time ago, when I was experiencing a lot of problems caused by AS. I was trying to explain how I felt to some family members and it suddenly seemed to me I was getting nowhere ...I was talking to the proverbial brick wall. It actually felt that they didnt even want to understand, or even try. I may have been wrong in this perception but suddenly I was totally overwhelmed by the most intense frustration and rage that I think I have ever felt. I couldn't think straight; i wanted to smash things (objects, not people!) I felt that I couldnt cope any more with a world that to me somply did not make sense. The feeling of blind rage and helplessness didnt last very long, but it left me with a dreadful feeling of depression for ages.
The family members who witnessed this event told me that it was simply not acceptable behaviour, and that I must learn to "control myself" if I ever felt like that again. They have a point. I certainly hope it never does happen again; it was probably the most hopeless, black and unpleasant emotional event I have ever experienced....and I guess that to me it wascertaunly a total "meltdown" of the emotions and the ability to think straight!
Glenn |
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