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nthach
Phoenix
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Joined: Feb 29, 2008
Age: 28
Posts: 1457
Location: SF Bay Area
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 Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| IMO, Sodini's problem was wanting to date people much, much younger than him as well as having little social skills. I mean c'mon, he's staring at a computer most of the day! |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| nthach wrote: | | IMO, Sodini's problem was wanting to date people much, much younger than him as well as having little social skills. I mean c'mon, he's staring at a computer most of the day! |
agreed!
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SadAspy
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 14, 2010
Posts: 695
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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As one of those men who can't get women (and yes, it probably has a lot more to do with personality than looks), I've gone the prostitute route a few times, but lately, it just hasn't done anything for me. I want a real relationship  |
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deadeyexx
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 773
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | so then, all men who get dates are perfect? wow, there are a lot of perfect people out there. of course, many aspies date or get married, so i guess they are somehow perfect too, even though they are aspies. your logic fails. |
Perfection was too strong of a word. Let's say socially acceptable. Or at least the appearance of being so long enough for someone to know you well enough to accept your flaws. I get plenty of dates and I am not perfect. Just gotten good at hiding my bad qualities.
| hyperlexian wrote: | | it is patently false to assume women are worse than men, or that they get away with it more. |
I can't agree with you about this one. Not worse, but do get away with more. I suppose if a woman told me they unwittingly said something that made every man in earshot want to have nothing to do with them, I'd shut my mouth. On the other hand, I have on many occasions made a corny joke, brought up a weird topic, or admitted something I'd not proud of to kill any chances I might have had.
| hyperlexian wrote: | | i think a person has a right to exclude others based on their morals and based on safety. for instance, i would not have sex with an intravenous drug user or a man who beats women. these things are based on my morals and my safety. men who frequent prostitutes violate my morality and my safety, and it is reasonable to expect them to avoid the sex trade. |
Fully agree, and never said otherwise. I wasn't so much saying people don't have the right to reject others, but that nobody should be ashamed of who they are or what they do. You can tell someone how horrible they are, but you have no right to expect them to feel bad about it.
| hyperlexian wrote: | | men and women have no absolute need for sex. to expect that society should remake itself to allow someone to have any is not reasonable. |
Right again. Society is fine the way it is. It's our responsability to learn to use what it has to offer to our advantage. |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| deadeyexx wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | it is patently false to assume women are worse than men, or that they get away with it more. |
I can't agree with you about this one. Not worse, but do get away with more. I suppose if a woman told me they unwittingly said something that made every man in earshot want to have nothing to do with them, I'd shut my mouth. On the other hand, I have on many occasions made a corny joke, brought up a weird topic, or admitted something I'd not proud of to kill any chances I might have had. |
are you talking about getting away with things like making corny jokes, or getting away with things like having group sex? i am confused.
but yes, women CAN say things that make every man in earshot want nothing to do with them. for instance, saying, "i want nothing more than to get married and have babies as soon as possible." or, "i don't perform oral sex because i find it disgusting." both of which i have heard women say in the presence of men. they are real conversation-killers.
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Janissy
Phoenix
Joined: May 06, 2009
Age: 46
Posts: 4857
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| deadeyexx wrote: | I can't agree with you about this one. Not worse, but do get away with more. I suppose if a woman told me they unwittingly said something that made every man in earshot want to have nothing to do with them, I'd shut my mouth. On the other hand, I have on many occasions made a corny joke, brought up a weird topic, or admitted something I'd not proud of to kill any chances I might have had.
. |
I haven't said anything that did that. But that's only because I have always carefully observed other women and noted what things they said that had that effect so I would not say them myself. The number one thing a woman can say that destroys her chances with all males within earshot is to talk on and on about how much she wants to get married right now and how she can't wait to meet the Right Man so that she can start planning that gala wedding. I have observed women say this and observed the "ice cold shower" look on the faces of the men that heard it.
Second is any "men suck" talk. Oddly enough, "men suck" talk is less of a dealbreaker than "I want to get married right now "talk. Perhaps men categorize it as a somewhat lesser evil because it can be situational and just a rash generalization made after a bad breakup and they could be in for the rebound.[ I make these observations mainly watching the faces of men in groups and am not trying to make generalizations about anyone here.]
So I don't think that women can get away with more. I just think that the things women can say and still seem attractive or suddenly seem unattractive are different than the things men can say. Not more. Just different.
edited to add: I see I posted at the exact same time as hyperlexian with the exact same thing. We've both observed women kill their chances by going on about their craving for instant husband and kids.
Last edited by Janissy on Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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nthach
Phoenix
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Joined: Feb 29, 2008
Age: 28
Posts: 1457
Location: SF Bay Area
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| SadAspy wrote: | | I want a real relationship |
So do I. But I think our personality and social issues are roadblocks which can be worked on. However, there are people like me who are perfectionists and want instant gratification.
When I do get into a relationship, and if my partner wants to talk marriage that's a whole 'nother can of worms right there. Personally, I think marriage can wait until I'm 35 or older. And I'm dreading the fact of having kids. I personally don't want them just because I don't want a clone of me running around- but seriously, my kid(s) will have some form of autism which is a scary thought. I don't want my kids going through what I've been, I don't want to the same dad like my dad, and I don't want to put out anymore aspie genes into the gene pool.
Last edited by nthach on Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Janissy wrote: | | The number one thing a woman can say that destroys her chances with all males within earshot is to talk on and on about how much she wants to get married right now and how she can't wait to meet the Right Man so that she can start planning that gala wedding. I have observed women say this and observed the "ice cold shower" look on the faces of the men that heard it. |
| hyperlexian wrote: | | but yes, women CAN say things that make every man in earshot want nothing to do with them. for instance, saying, "i want nothing more than to get married and have babies as soon as possible." or, "i don't perform oral sex because i find it disgusting." both of which i have heard women say in the presence of men. they are real conversation-killers. |
identi-simul-posts!!!!
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HopeGrows
Nobody's Fool
Joined: Nov 06, 2009
Posts: 1565
Location: In exactly the right place at exactly the right time.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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@hyperlexian, I believe your brand of feminism is truly dangerous. You believe that your moral values are so important that they should actually supercede a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body. WWHD? I don't think so.
Empowering women, protecting women, trusting women to make their own decisions - that's what feminism is supposed to be about. You really think its your job to make that decision for every woman? Sorry, I don't.
I understand you can't conceive of a woman who may remain undamaged by prostitution, because you would be damaged by prostitution. But not everyone thinks the way you do. Not everyone responds to situations and experiences the same way. I personally can't conceive of engaging in casual sex - you have no problem with it. Aren't you glad there's no law against casual sex? Aren't you THRILLED it was your choice to engage in it if that's the way you're wired? Aren't you glad my sense of morality wasn't imposed on you against your will?
With my solution, @hyperlexian, everybody wins. Women who share your values still won't choose prostitution; other women will be free to make their own choices, under considerably better circumstances.
I firmly believe that a woman's body is hers to do with as she pleases. Her right to choose is way more important than any individual's personal beliefs or moral code. And no, I won't waiver from that position.
And men, @MotherKnowsBest has not provided an accurate representation of your prospects of forming non-professional relationships if you choose to patronize a prostitute - so don't worry about it.
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deadeyexx
Phoenix
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Age: 32
Posts: 773
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| hyperlexian wrote: | | are you talking about getting away with things like making corny jokes, or getting away with things like having group sex? i am confused. |
Anything that would kill attraction. Like what could a guy say, or do, or wear, that would make you conclude he's not something you'd ever want.
You're right about a woman saying "I want marriage right now" making every guy in the room back off. I think that's pretty extreme though. Does a guy have to say something with that level of shock value for the same effect? |
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| HopeGrows wrote: | @hyperlexian, I believe your brand of feminism is truly dangerous. You believe that your moral values are so important that they should actually supercede a woman's right to decide what to do with her own body. WWHD? I don't think so.
Empowering women, protecting women, trusting women to make their own decisions - that's what feminism is supposed to be about. You really think its your job to make that decision for every woman? Sorry, I don't.
I understand you can't conceive of a woman who may remain undamaged by prostitution, because you would be damaged by prostitution. But not everyone thinks the way you do. Not everyone responds to situations and experiences the same way. I personally can't conceive of engaging in casual sex - you have no problem with it. Aren't you glad there's no law against casual sex? Aren't you THRILLED it was your choice to engage in it if that's the way you're wired? Aren't you glad my sense of morality wasn't imposed on you against your will?
With my solution, @hyperlexian, everybody wins. Women who share your values still won't choose prostitution; other women will be free to make their own choices, under considerably better circumstances.
I firmly believe that a woman's body is hers to do with as she pleases. Her right to choose is way more important than any individual's personal beliefs or moral code. And no, I won't waiver from that position.
And men, @MotherKnowsBest has not provided an accurate representation of your prospects of forming non-professional relationships if you choose to patronize a prostitute - so don't worry about it. |
i actually consider your brand of feminism quite dangerous, because it buys into what the traditional patriarchy is promoting for women, allows men to have their freedom one more way for women to be used and discarded by men. allowing the government to outlaw something that is so overwhelmingly detrimental to both sex workers and general society is just responsible, not dangerous.
your argument about freedom for women to control their own bodies does not wash. the government already has a great deal of control over people's own desire to do what they want to with their bodies. i.e. you can't buy heroin at the supermarket because the government understands it is dangerous.
anyway, even in a legalized system women who are selling sex for money have very little control over the act itself, or their treatment by men, or the conditions under which they work. the industry is designed around catering to men, not to the women who must do the job.
you fully know that it is damaging to the majority of women, though you inexplicably do not think it should be a deciding factor on whether or not prostitution should be legal. i don't believe your perspective has anything to do with women at all, at the core. i think it caters to the desires and dominance of men. i consider it to be an unenlightened perspective.
funny that you keep bringing up my own sexuality, but yours is not under question. you do not have any sort of moral high ground, so pointing out that i engage in something that you do not like is hardly appropriate. were my actions detrimental to me or to my partners? no. but is prostitution detrimental to the women involved? yes.
how many women have you asked about whether they would sleep with a man who frequented prostitutes? i doubt you have asked any. have you researched it at all? probably not. but even just speaking logically... if women didn't mind, then men wouldn't hide it, would they? nice try, though.
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| deadeyexx wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | are you talking about getting away with things like making corny jokes, or getting away with things like having group sex? i am confused. |
Anything that would kill attraction. Like what could a guy say, or do, or wear, that would make you conclude he's not something you'd ever want.
You're right about a woman saying "I want marriage right now" making every guy in the room back off. I think that's pretty extreme though. Does a guy have to say something with that level of shock value for the same effect? |
some women on WP have spoken of their difficulty attracting men because they do not dress like a stereotypical girl, or don't wear makeup or pay attention to their hair.
i do not know for sure what a guy could say or do that would have the same effect. let's see... if a man bluntly said he frequents prostitutes it would probably kill the conversation. or if he said the women who make him angry should get physically punished. but i've never heard guys say either one, so i dunno. what were your examples?
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Janissy
Phoenix
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Age: 46
Posts: 4857
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| deadeyexx wrote: | | [You're right about a woman saying "I want marriage right now" making every guy in the room back off. I think that's pretty extreme though. Does a guy have to say something with that level of shock value for the same effect? |
That's why I said that women can get away with saying different things but not more things. "I want marriage right now" only has shock value when men hear women say it. If women hear men say it, they are attracted, rather than repelled. Yes, there are things that men can say that repel women but a woman saying the same things won't repel men. But it works in reverse too. And the "marriage now" thing is an example of that. |
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Sallamandrina
alles wieder offen
Joined: Jan 25, 2009
Posts: 3590
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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@hyperlexian - It would be interesting if you would make a poll to see how many women here consider paying for sex a deal breaker
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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Sallamandrina wrote: | | @hyperlexian - It would be interesting if you would make a poll to see how many women here consider paying for sex a deal breaker |
hey that would be interesting! will do so, and thanks for the idea.
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