Kiseki
I just ran out of Band-Aids
Joined: May 30, 2010
Age: 33
Posts: 1604
Location: Osaka JP
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:47 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Well, this is a bad stereotype. Not all of us are like this. But I think it definitely has to do with how androgen or estrogen affects the child's brain in the womb. I know I personally am not a girly girl and could never be one. But I don't think I act like a guy. I have met other lesbians who are as girly as it gets. And I have met girls whose gender I have to figure out.
Everybody's different.
I do wonder if this has to do with the amount of opposite sex hormones the child gets in the womb though. Say, for example, from a great amount to a lesser amount.
_________________
Your Aspie score: 161 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 55 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie |
|
| Back to top |
|
Ah_Q
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 25, 2008
Age: 30
Posts: 700
Location: The Freezer
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: why do gay men act like women and gay women act like men |
|
|
| loftyD wrote: | | My logic cannot grasp this at all. |
You're logic is weak. Try harder.
_________________
I live! |
|
| Back to top |
|
leejosepho
life student
Joined: Sep 15, 2009
Age: 63
Posts: 8118
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A moderator's question:
In another thread here in LGBT, BrendaEM had asked this question:
| Quote: | | What do you think will happen when young, sensitive, impressionable people, who have both ASD and gender issues read [something derogatory or in some way offensive] in a subforum that might be the last place they thought safe, and how will that effect them? |
As a bit of sensitivity training for me as a moderator wanting to be helpful here in LGBT, I would like to hear how people felt while facing the initial post in this thread. I have no trouble seeing the OP's question as genuine, yet I can see how other people might have felt it was offensively sarcastic.
Which way did you happen to hear it?
Note: Please do *not* voice any opinion about the person who made the opening post here. Please only mention how the *content* of the opening post might have affected you.
_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
========================================
Each of us serves like a maid-mod
in life, keeping our own slates clean.
=========================== |
|
| Back to top |
|
auntblabby
Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
Posts: 18156
Location: the island of loveable toy humans
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
my initial thought was that this was an example of black-and-white thinking, of somebody forcing real live humans into a personal conceptual box, and i was a little perturbed by it. and then i remembered that "we always meet ourselves" [one of the universal laws as described by edgar cayce] and i could see that the OP was just another manifestation of that, in that i was seeing in him a reflection of my own limited perception of reality, in the manner of jesus' cautioning about first removing the plank from one's own eye before judging another person, in order that one may see more clearly to judge, or more precisely to NOT judge as only god is qualified to judge.
i was only bothered because the OP was expressing a viewpoint that ignored my own experience, as though people like me [i.e., effeminate male] were just so much chopped liver, in the OP's view. i hope this made sense to somebody. |
|
| Back to top |
|
nick007
old-skewl fan-boy
Joined: May 05, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 9737
Location: was Louisiana but moved in with my girlfreind in Vermont
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have a theory that some of it could be a cultural thing. People want to fit in to find others who are like them so it seems possible that some could act the way they do because it seems to be the cultural stereotype for em. it's easier for gays to identify other gays & for lesbians to identify other lesbians if they have certain things in common. These stereotypes are portrayed in the media & people pick up on that. it's kinda like how depressed teens are into the EMO culture or how loners are into the goth one.
_________________
For info about where I've been & what's up with me check this post~
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5105431.html&highlight=#5105431 |
|
| Back to top |
|
Mark198423
hearts abaisse
Joined: Jul 04, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1981
Location: Salford, England
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| nick007 wrote: | | I have a theory that some of it could be a cultural thing. People want to fit in to find others who are like them so it seems possible that some could act the way they do because it seems to be the cultural stereotype for em. it's easier for gays to identify other gays & for lesbians to identify other lesbians if they have certain things in common. These stereotypes are portrayed in the media & people pick up on that. it's kinda like how depressed teens are into the EMO culture or how loners are into the goth one. |
I think this is true for some, but not all. I know people who become much more camp when in a gay setting of for effect when saying certain things than they are in general but I know at least one effeninate boy in school turned out to be gay and didn't seem to be much different in adulthood (campness wasn't 'turned up' on coming out). |
|
| Back to top |
|
b9
whatever..
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 8357
Location: australia
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| leejosepho wrote: | A moderator's question:
I have no trouble seeing the OP's question as genuine, yet I can see how other people might have felt it was offensively sarcastic.
Which way did you happen to hear it? |
.
i thought it was mildly interesting since i never thought about it before, but when i thought of it, i do realize that there is a stereotype for male gays that is "flouncy", and a stereotype for female gays that portrays them as mechanics with overalls and tattoos and crew cuts (dykey).
one thing i wondered once is where the gay men who do have poncy accents derive them from.
they do not adopt their accents from their parents or teachers (mostly i would guess). moreover, i have never heard a male under about 15 with that accent. i think most men with those accents do not have those accents as children. it is strange that someone can completely change the accent they had as a child during their teens. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Poke
Phoenix
Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 602
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
The truth here, as so often is the case, can only be expressed in generalities, so there will always be plenty of room for denial.
The simple, obvious, boring truth is that, if a person is homosexual, at least part of their brain is more like the "typical" brain of the opposite sex.
This is based on the idea that the human brain is the source of human behavior--not too radical a proposition, I hope.
A "binary" system for sexual reproduction like ours necessarily involves a general, ingrained attraction across the two "types" of units. In general, "zeroes" are wired for attraction to "ones", and vice-versa. Note that this has nothing to do with "gender roles", etc. It's a simple matter of how our species reproduces.
If a "zero" comes along that's attracted to other "zeroes", it means that part of its brain--a very significant part, in terms of biology, evolution, etc.--is more like the typical "one" brain. It makes perfect sense, then, that many "zeroes" who fit this description have additional "one-like" brain characteristics. This is not to say that every "zero" that's attracted to other "zeroes" has additional "one-like" brain characteristics. Perhaps that orientation is the only thing that's "one-like" about their brain, and in every other regard their brain is very much like the typical "zero" brain. These would be your masculine gay men and feminine lesbians. There are also "zeroes" who are intrinsically attracted to "ones" that nevertheless have other "one-like" brain characteristics--in other words, "straight" men who act feminine, and so on. You could cherry-pick a masculine gay man and a feminine straight man and present them as "evidence" that what I'm saying has no merit whatsoever. But the generalities are real, and, even though they don't lend themselves to absolute "proof", no truly intellectually honest person could deny them.
Why are many gay men so "feminine" and many lesbians so "masculine", then? Well, if one major part of a "zeroes" brain is "one-like", there's a good chance that other parts are, too. Again, generally speaking.
Please note that when I say "part" of the brain, I'm not talking about a single, isolated structure. Obviously it's more complicated than that. The word "aspect" or "element" or "system" would probably be more accurate.
Of course, this type of topic is so politically charged these days that intellectually honest appraisals are difficult to come by. |
|
| Back to top |
|
b9
whatever..
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 8357
Location: australia
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
i can see what you are trying to say but your message drowns in analogies that are so viscous that they suffocate the ease of flow of a readers attention.
and in a few minutes i will not be conscious and when i wake up i will not be able to care less about this thread that i replied to. good ruddy night. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Poke
Phoenix
Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 602
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Saying "gay men have lady brains" just doesn't do the matter justice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
visagrunt
Polymath
Joined: Oct 17, 2009
Age: 45
Posts: 5754
Location: Vancouver, BC
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| leejosepho wrote: | A moderator's question:
In another thread here in LGBT, BrendaEM had asked this question:
| Quote: | | What do you think will happen when young, sensitive, impressionable people, who have both ASD and gender issues read [something derogatory or in some way offensive] in a subforum that might be the last place they thought safe, and how will that effect them? |
As a bit of sensitivity training for me as a moderator wanting to be helpful here in LGBT, I would like to hear how people felt while facing the initial post in this thread. I have no trouble seeing the OP's question as genuine, yet I can see how other people might have felt it was offensively sarcastic.
Which way did you happen to hear it?
Note: Please do *not* voice any opinion about the person who made the opening post here. Please only mention how the *content* of the opening post might have affected you. |
I can't help feeling that this is a bit patronizing. "Help me understand your repression, so that I can help you."
Well, I think a starting point is why is a person who is not LGBT moderating this forum? I don't suggest that this should be queer-only space (although there are good reasons both for and against exclusive space), but I do think that it is not enough for a well-intentioned outsider to ask a few questions related to his sensitivity training.
For my part, I am perfectly happy answering the OPs question, and combatting the stereotypes embedded within it.
_________________
--James |
|
| Back to top |
|
Mark198423
hearts abaisse
Joined: Jul 04, 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 1981
Location: Salford, England
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| visagrunt wrote: | I can't help feeling that this is a bit patronizing. "Help me understand your repression, so that I can help you."
Well, I think a starting point is why is a person who is not LGBT moderating this forum? I don't suggest that this should be queer-only space (although there are good reasons both for and against exclusive space), but I do think that it is not enough for a well-intentioned outsider to ask a few questions related to his sensitivity training.
For my part, I am perfectly happy answering the OPs question, and combatting the stereotypes embedded within it. |
Wow, climb down from your high horse. The guy's a new moderator (not just LGBT as most moderators here do most forums) just trying to ensure he gets the balance right in the site's newest forum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
leejosepho
life student
Joined: Sep 15, 2009
Age: 63
Posts: 8118
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mark198423 wrote: | | The guy's a new moderator (not just LGBT as most moderators here do most forums) just trying to ensure he gets the balance right in the site's newest forum. |
I grew up under the hard rule of a bigot father in the '50s. Our next-door neighbor at that time was an homosexual man who was committed to a state hospital (an "insane asylum", as such places were known back then) to supposedly be "treated" for his homosexuality. However, and even though my father had acted monstrously toward that man, that man was nevertheless always kind to me and never did anything offensive to me ... and I somehow sensed even than at about age five that people were being cruel to him and not even trying to understand. Oh, and once before he had been "found out", he had taken me out to the rail yard where he worked and I got to go for a ride in a real locomotive! I loved it. People called that always-friendly fellow "Curly".
Fast-forward for a couple of decades ...
I have lived in Key West, Florida, where some of the Navy boys at the Boca Chica Naval Air Station (we "pier queers"  , but not me) and the gays used to do battle with each other on Duvall Street while even using ball bats until the base commander stopped all of that by making Key West off-limits when the gays seemed to be getting the upper hand.
In much-later A.A. meetings in Key West, I have met, talked with, laughed and cried with and have freely socialized with some of the finest people I have ever known, and I cherish those memories with my gay friends to this very day.
Moderator or not, I am here talking at the moment simply because I love people and I think everyone's ball-bat days need to be ended once, and for all.
_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
========================================
Each of us serves like a maid-mod
in life, keeping our own slates clean.
=========================== |
|
| Back to top |
|
visagrunt
Polymath
Joined: Oct 17, 2009
Age: 45
Posts: 5754
Location: Vancouver, BC
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| leejosepho wrote: | I grew up under the hard rule of a bigot father in the '50s. Our next-door neighbor at that time was an homosexual man who was committed to a state hospital (an "insane asylum", as such places were known back then) to supposedly be "treated" for his homosexuality. However, and even though my father had acted monstrously toward that man, that man was nevertheless always kind to me and never did anything offensive to me ... and I somehow sensed even than at about age five that people were being cruel to him and not even trying to understand. Oh, and once before he had been "found out", he had taken me out to the rail yard where he worked and I got to go for a ride in a real locomotive! I loved it. People called that always-friendly fellow "Curly".
Fast-forward for a couple of decades ...
I have lived in Key West, Florida, where some of the Navy boys at the Boca Chica Naval Air Station (we "pier queers" , but not me) and the gays used to do battle with each other on Duvall Street while even using ball bats until the base commander stopped all of that by making Key West off-limits when the gays seemed to be getting the upper hand.
In much-later A.A. meetings in Key West, I have met, talked with, laughed and cried with and have freely socialized with some of the finest people I have ever known, and I cherish those memories with my gay friends to this very day.
Moderator or not, I am here talking at the moment simply because I love people and I think everyone's ball-bat days need to be ended once, and for all. |
I don't want for a moment to suggest that you are not a fine, compassionate, well meaning individual. But I think you have been saddled with a task for which you are not properly supported.
WP is underserved by too few moderators who are expected to be all things to all people. Aspies might be better aware than most that such a thing cannot be.
_________________
--James |
|
| Back to top |
|
AwesomeUsername
Blue Jay
Joined: Dec 05, 2010
Posts: 87
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think it was a legitimate question. I go to lesbian clubs all the time and some of the women there could easily pass for men in a different setting. There is a big difference between the androgynous look that some go for, and the hair extensions-makeup-short dress look that others get into. The latter is roughly about one in ten in the clubs. A few lesbians tell me that they don't quite feel female...but not male either. This is very rare in heterosexual women. Also, the gay club bathrooms (and a lot of SF establishments) are always unisex.
I live in San Francisco, and most of my friends are lesbians. I've been told by two of them that "ultra femme" (short for feminine, of course) women are very sought after by the usual gay girl crowd. Femme girls often prefer other femme girls as well, it seems. I've asked them, "Why, if you liked femme women, would you not want to be femme as well?"
The usual response is, "I would if I could, but it's not and never been me." It might be something I do not understand.
I also do not believe that the mod has to be gay in order to mod a GLBT forum. This could be a place where not only gay people could post, but where straight people who do not understand some things could ask questions and learn from the community. I certainly hope so.
_________________
To see a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wildflower... hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
