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AgentPalpatine
Proponent of AspieBURG
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Posts: 1272
Location: Near the Delaware River
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 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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I respectfully request the indulgence of everyone with such excellent responces as I answer in one reply.
Rjgarn,
Of course who you wish to socially interact with is your own busness. I don't see how an aspie community would change that in anyway, if 99.5 percent or so of the people outside of the community are NT.
Is it somehow wrong to "have a town where body language communication is almost non-existent, eye contact is not necessary, a place where the average coffee shop discussion is about the extreme details of topic X, and the occasional body odor or brutal lack of fashion is socially acceptable"?
I'd personally enjoy not haveing to constantly figure out how much eye contact to display to various individuals based on status, task, gender, etc. etc. I'd also enjoy being able to go to coffee shops where I can hold an intellegent conversation and not be looked at like a social leper. As for body odor and "brutal lack of fashion", how is that any different than walking the streets of any decent sized "NT" city?
FireMinstrel,
I would respectfully suggest that we ask the question with a slightly different set of facts. What about a 45 year old individual who is forced to live with his friends (if any) and family, since they cannot keep down a job in an era of almost 20 percent U6 unemployement? I would direct our attention to any number of depressing stories on WP of those not lucky enough to find a tolerent workplace, and to be constantly driven from job to job, if the individual is lucky enough to get in the door in the first place.
What is the current US entry-level employement track for someone without (or with) a college-level degree? Retail or low-level clerical positions? The trade positions are down due to the lack of construction jobs, and often require an extensive apprecienceship period or capital investment, which might not be available due to the hiring process being non-Aspie friendly.
Flyingkittycat,
I'm not sure if I should read some sort of implication of bigotry into your post, particularly with the first comparision you made. I respectfully request a clarification of your comment.
In any event, how does an aspie community prevent you personally from living in peace?
Surfman,
I'm not sure how to read your response.
Ruveyn,
You describe the "NT" world as a "Hive", but you would not be interested in some sort of community outside or co-located with the "Hive"? As previously noted in this thread, with an estimated 1.5-3 Million Aspies in the United States alone, I'm sure there are enough to found a village somewhere.
In general,
As I believe I have noted before, I would have prefered to rename this thread since "nation" brings up associations of soverign states with extensive territories. I am attempting to discuss an Aspie community. |
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glider18
Supporting Member
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 6708
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: AS Nation |
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| AgentPalpatine wrote: | | :humor: I'd happily apply for research grants to test such a theory. |
I kind of just caught that response you made on my post. Can you imagine how interesting this could be? I think about a project that never was the way the creator imagined---Walt Disney. The project was the original concept for EPCOT in Florida. Disney envisioned a prototype city of tomorrow with real people working real jobs and living within the confines of the experimental city. Tourists would be able to see how these families lived in this prototype community that was complete with a wonderful shopping center, towering hotel, and amusement park. Disney's idea died with him, and the business heads of the Disney corporation made EPCOT into the park it is today---nothing like Walt had imagined and designed.
So...maybe this idea could work after all. If we could debate without insult in this community, I might be willing to give it a try---provided there is a great roller coaster---there must be a great roller coaster  .
_________________
"My journey has just begun." |
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rjgarn
Blue Jay
Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 91
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| AgentPalpatine wrote: | I respectfully request the indulgence of everyone with such excellent responces as I answer in one reply.
Rjgarn,
Is it somehow wrong to "have a town where body language communication is almost non-existent, eye contact is not necessary, a place where the average coffee shop discussion is about the extreme details of topic X, and the occasional body odor or brutal lack of fashion is socially acceptable"?
I'd personally enjoy not haveing to constantly figure out how much eye contact to display to various individuals based on status, task, gender, etc. etc. I'd also enjoy being able to go to coffee shops where I can hold an intellegent conversation and not be looked at like a social leper. As for body odor and "brutal lack of fashion", how is that any different than walking the streets of any decent sized "NT" city?
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Well, in the functionalist sense, yes I do think it would be a problem, a very serious problem at that. That example was just a strawman that I constructed, but my real point, again, is that I don't think it would be possible to build a harmonious communal bond just off of that fact that it [the community] would consist of people with similar behavioral traits. While it's certainty possible to build a community that has features like that, you would have to have a deeper bonding factor in order for it to be sustainable in the long run.
In the mid 1800's and more recently in the 60's, there were countless movements that attempted to form their own communal utopias, usually based around some kind of socialist or feminist system. However almost all of them ended in failure because of internal strife that eventually tore their memberships apart. The ones that made it were able to build a social hub that emphasized strong unity around a particular concept or idea. Incidentally this concept is usually something that mainstream society considers taboo, further strengthening the members commitment (Nudists and Polygamists all the way  !). |
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AgentPalpatine
Proponent of AspieBURG
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Posts: 1272
Location: Near the Delaware River
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| rjgarn wrote: |
Well, in the functionalist sense, yes I do think it would be a problem, a very serious problem at that. That example was just a strawman that I constructed, but my real point, again, is that I don't think it would be possible to build a harmonious communal bond just off of that fact that it [the community] would consist of people with similar behavioral traits. While it's certainty possible to build a community that has features like that, you would have to have a deeper bonding factor in order for it to be sustainable in the long run.
In the mid 1800's and more recently in the 60's, there were countless movements that attempted to form their own communal utopias, usually based around some kind of socialist or feminist system. However almost all of them ended in failure because of internal strife that eventually tore their memberships apart. The ones that made it were able to build a social hub that emphasized strong unity around a particular concept or idea. Incidentally this concept is usually something that mainstream society considers taboo, further strengthening the members commitment (Nudists and Polygamists all the way !). |
I'm not sure a "taboo" is required, only a sense of alienation from "mainstream society". Given the fact that we are posting on a site called "WrongPlanet", I'd say we have our sense of alienation. Your milage may vary, you've previously mentioned that you don't enjoy to associate with individuals with autism, so you personally may not feel alienated.
Glider18, I'd like to think that I learned something from my studies of Walt Disney. I don't think the first aspie community will have the giant roller coaster, perhaps the first aspie amusement park. |
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glider18
Supporting Member
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
Posts: 6708
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:50 pm Post subject: great roller coaster |
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| AgentPalpatine wrote: | | Glider18, I'd like to think that I learned something from my studies of Walt Disney. I don't think the first aspie community will have the giant roller coaster, perhaps the first aspie amusement park. |
I don't want a giant roller coaster---I want a great roller coaster. I prefer the medium size wooden coasters from the 1920s. I actually have the one and only blueprint (original linen cloth paper design done by the designer) of an intense wooden coaster that was never built. That coaster belongs to me now. And I am moving closer to the completion of an HO scale model of this coaster. I have named it the Spiral Dips. The blueprint has it dated April 12, 1928. If the Aspie community has an amusement park, it will no doubt have a roller coaster---and I have the coaster . It is in the style of the Crystal Beach Cyclone. Anyone want to build it?
_________________
"My journey has just begun." |
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rjgarn
Blue Jay
Joined: Mar 03, 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 91
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| AgentPalpatine wrote: |
I'm not sure a "taboo" is required, only a sense of alienation from "mainstream society". Given the fact that we are posting on a site called "WrongPlanet", I'd say we have our sense of alienation. Your milage may vary, you've previously mentioned that you don't enjoy to associate with individuals with autism, so you personally may not feel alienated.
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I have definitely felt some alienation, and I still do in some ways, but I would say that I just feel more content now then I did in the past. To elaborate on my previous post: I'm not fond of friendships with other autistics to be precise, my mother does work with high & low functioning autistic adults, and I've had plenty of friendly interactions with several people with aspergers over the years. But the reason why I have a hard time developing a close friendship with any of them is because I just feel that the majority (but by no means all) of them do nothing whatsoever to try and push themselves beyond their current state of limitations. Yes, I am socially inept, and I struggle greatly with several areas of my human relationships, but I can't stand the thought of doing nothing to try to improve myself. To address this I constantly challenge myself, and I am always trying to learn manually what nature didn't teach me.
Because of this attitude, I'm kind of an elitist in how I view people that do nothing to try and transcend whatever hole they find themselves hurled into by life, so that is kind of why I have a hard time when I'm with the company of most autistics. I learned at young age that the world doesn't care about me as person in the slightest. It doesn't matter that I have some extreme developmental differences from the majority of the human race, I (and everyone else here on WP for that matter) am held to the same bland standard as the rest of humanity, people just don't care, and neither do any of the social institutions for that matter. I have no doubts that there are others out there like myself who take a similar approach, and indeed, I've noticed quite a few on here, but somehow I kind of get the impression that I may be in a minority.
Ah well, as my one of my professors told me: "There is nothing wrong with being an elitist ass, it's actually quite surprising how easy it makes life at times!" |
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AgentPalpatine
Proponent of AspieBURG
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Posts: 1272
Location: Near the Delaware River
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Rjgarn,
As a student of sociology, what are your thoughts on individuals who have, regretfully, been taught failure? The above example of a 35-year old who has been shut out of the work force, a young adult who has never been shown the value of connections in an unstable job market, those suffering from social exclusion? |
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DenRF
Emu Egg
Joined: May 07, 2011
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Lets make a short summary:
What do people with aspie have in common?
WE are very, very good in the job we love. We are perfect workers, we never late at work, we never break rules we do everything in the best way it should be.”WE” right? . So why we should live together with people who hate us? With parents who beats us because we don’t want to go out in the evening and yells at us that we don’t have friends? Who have this wonderful rule that everyone should live in active society way and who doesn’t live these way is a freak and idiot and must be cured by heavy drugs ? Who say that it doesn’t matter what is insight of the man|girl but its more important how does he|she look like.? The “list” can be continued of course.
WE really don’t want to live in the world where all ppl all the time smiles at us. WE want to live alone and freedom. WE have Reason.
Where find money to build our own country?
All multinational companies like Sony or Siemens will support us because (I will start list,we really like lists ok?)
─ aspie usually great in the job they like. Imagine how much Sony will have from its techlab located in our country which has only aspies personal. Personal which can not live (in real) without there job.
─ aspies (who have money which they gain from there beloved jobs) will all spend it for bying best tech stuff for there home| hobby is possible. They will buy best and MOST EXPENSIVE and large TVs,computers,sofas, BIG(with extra armour)) cars and etc.
All nations and countries will help us because.
─ WE will help them to get rid from the aspies. It simple: a lot of aspies doesn’t have jobs and live miserable life. A lot of aspies are drug addicted and alcoholic. A lot off aspies because of that start doing criminal. The Reason is─ that all nations and countries forced them to live in socium in there childhood.
Yes, it will work. Jews created there country for several years so why not?
Imagine the Country which will have aspie oriented education and medical system and it will GIVE THE WORLD best engineers, best doctors, best economists, best snipers
What about citizenship?
Only people with aspie and autism can have it. Down syndrome people should have there own wonderland. Autism neuro condition must be proved by our medical doctors at the border. Children of the aspie people who have not aspie or autism can not have citizenship and must be parented by ordinary neuro people in the age of 4. Just imagine what it would be for neuro ordinary kid in the Aspie Country? Its sad but we must think about his future too.
What abot political system?
Well it seems to me that we should look at everything best in mononationality countries like Israel, Japan, Belorus (not kidding) and etc. BUT it must be Open Democrasity. WE really don’t want to be isolated country with some kind off monarchy or this stuff. UN loves democrasity. It will help us.
What about religion?
Prohibited. Simple thing here. You belive in God in muslim or christian way? No problem but you must prey and do everything about it at your home. There must be no churches ot mosques ent etc. Yon also can not were any religion related clothes in open public(amulets and whatever)
What about national differences ,culture and ets?
Well it’s the most important question. Our destiny is to create a new nation of new people. The final goal of human evolution ─ Homo Sapiens “Aspergers Edition”
Showing in open national traditions will be prohibited. No china towns and etc. WE must create our own culture ─ best from everything.
BTW what about China ?
Yes there are more aspie people who have China and India nationality because these countries are most human populated. We must think about limits for nations in the first years of growing of the country so it will no be new asia country.
What about Eugenics?
If we are creating new nation we must think about making it healthy and better. Positive Eugenics will help us rise faster. we will not kill human newborns , no we promise:─)
What about laws?
It will be very strict laws for criminal against human, like murder, robbery etc. Maniacs, rapests, drug dealers and all this scum will seat on electrical chair. Our national security system and police must be best in the world. And it will be, and WE know why.
Dude, what about weed ,gambling and hookers?
Alcohol, nicotine, heroine are in one list and prohibited. Drug addicted people will be cured by force. Drug dealers executed. You will go to prison for 15 days for being drunk no matter at home or not.(only 1 human cell in prisons of course)
MJ and Shrooms will be legal BUT WE will create system which will help to control it using by aspies.
Same thing goes for prostitutes. We need them))
We will create gambling zone with our own Vegas .
Tourist money will help US in first several years so we will not suffer.
Ok, what now?
WE should start to unite. WE must start to find aspies who live not above from us and create an aspie safeplaces. WE must help each other. Internet will be our main instrument in that.
Maybe we have aspie president someplace who will help us to create country of Anonymous :─) |
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androbot2084
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 3097
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I mean how long are we going to put up with the blatant discrimination? Discrimination at school were geniuses like Einstein are given mediocre C grades and cannot get into the good colleges. Discrimination at work where even if Autistics are hired they are given lowly positions that are far below their capabilities if not outright fired from the workplace. How long are we going to be at the mercy of neurotypicals who only judge us by our weaknesses and if we demand that our strengths be taken in to consideration we are immediately denounced as supremacists who do not believe that all men are created equal ? And neurotypicals claim that Autistics have no social skills that allows them get along with other people? Then how come neurotypical people ruthlessly persecute Autistics and make life for them a living hell? Is persecuting weaker people showing good social skills? It is only because it is socially acceptable to treat autistic people like garbage that neurotypicals can get away with it. |
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DenRF
Emu Egg
Joined: May 07, 2011
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| androbot2084 maybe because neurotypical somehow deep in there minds understand that WE are the future not them? There are afraid of us. |
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androbot2084
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 3097
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| That is exactly right. I had a coworker who was competing with me for a permanent postion constantly telling me that I was mentally ill, had no common sense, had a bad memory etc. At one moment he let his guard down and asked the question "how can I possibly compete with him ?" |
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DenRF
Emu Egg
Joined: May 07, 2011
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Lets look on the evolution of the mankind : monkeys=>man
Don t you think that it was something in the middle? I mean i don't think that it was like apes just started to produce human child's . It doesn't make any sense to me. My idea is it was like that some monkey newborns started to have more differences from another ordinary monkeys. There were more interested in creating things than in jumping on the trees , have less hair and etc. Another ordinary monkeys hated and tortured them so those different who were most healthy and strong to survive(natural eugenics thing)escaped and created there own groups where they could live in peace. These new monkeys created instruments which help them to break coconuts or whatever. Finally they gained more food for them than ordinary monkeys and so on. It was just an example but doesn't it remind you anything? Doesn't it look like there WE are these new step in human evolution?
Just thing about it: What is the main thing in mans live? His death. Why? After you death all people who were happy to know you come to you funeral and start to remember what you v done in all your life. So what do you think people in this neuro typical world would say about your life ?
Well ,if there will be any people on yours funeral, they will start to say that you was poor (alcoholic |drug addicted etc) person who didn't have friends,or kids,or wife. They would say you had miserable life and It would be absolutely no matter for them how much money your had on your bank account or how much science etc you gave to the world. All your past school college "mates" will "remember" you to. I can even imagine that dialogue:
-Hi Bill! Do you remember these nerd we tortured in high school? Who was also alcoholic?
-Nope.
-Cmon dude! We beat the sh** out of him when he refused to help you in history project!
-Ohhh! That moth....er is dead?? Ahahhaha. What? He committed suicide or died because of drug overdose?
So is that all you want to leave after your life? We dont. |
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aspi-rant
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 04, 2008
Posts: 1449
Location: denmark
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 5:22 am Post subject: |
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i have stated this before and would like to state right away that this post is not meant to be anti-anything - just simple presenting some facts:
there are momentarily 6,775,235,700 people living on this planet.
http://www.google.com/search?&q=world+population
the estimated prevalence of aspies alone stands somewhere around 0.3%.
but the prevalence of ASD spectrum as a whole is currently estimated at 1%... meaning there are 67,752,357 aliens like us living on this planet... meaning more people than live in the entire UK... or in france...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population
there are 13,155,000 jews living on this planet... meaning a prevalence of only 0.2% of the entire world population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews
in 1948 the jews declared independence and formed the state of israel, backed by the UN.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isreal
since then, billions upon billions upon billions upon billions of dollars are used to either protect or to eliminate the jewish state of israel, depending on which side you are on.
being a jew is NOT a genetic condition... it is first of all a choice. it is a belief. it is this belief that makes the jews an ethnicity. a culture. not a race, nor a diversity. (the genetic differences seen today are the result of millennia of marriages based on the religion! effectively narrowing down the genes within in the population)
being on the autistic spectrum is not a choice. it is mainly (if not totally) genetic. it is a significant diversity... and some even suggest it could be a development/evolutionary thing that makes people on the spectrum different from the rest of the human race on this planet.
having up to 5 times more people than the jews involved, this should warrant at least the same if not more economic support and at least an option to gather in a country for those who would be together with their own people.
backed by the UN...
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DenRF
Emu Egg
Joined: May 07, 2011
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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My mistake was that i wrote whole article like a strict document that cannot be changed. It must be tweaked or changed caz i am not politician or scientist . My idea is that our our final goal is to create our own independent nation ,SO will live with our neuro typical brothers like good neighbors.
"Well it seems to me that we should look at everything best in mononationality countries like Israel, Japan, Belorus (not kidding) and etc. BUT it must be Open Democrasity. WE really don’t want to be isolated country with some kind off monarchy or this stuff." - the main idea |
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Magneto
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
Age: 18
Posts: 896
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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DenRF, you're a crazy, authoritarian nutter, who fortunately will not get any of your dreams realized.
Some evidence for my position:
| Quote: | What about religion?
Prohibited. Simple thing here. You belive in God in muslim or christian way? No problem but you must prey and do everything about it at your home. There must be no churches ot mosques ent etc. Yon also can not were any religion related clothes in open public(amulets and whatever) |
No freedom of religion.
| Quote: | | Only people with aspie and autism can have it. Down syndrome people should have there own wonderland. Autism neuro condition must be proved by our medical doctors at the border. Children of the aspie people who have not aspie or autism can not have citizenship and must be parented by ordinary neuro people in the age of 4. Just imagine what it would be for neuro ordinary kid in the Aspie Country? Its sad but we must think about his future too. |
Taking children away from their parents on grounds of them being "defective".
| Quote: | Well it’s the most important question. Our destiny is to create a new nation of new people. The final goal of human evolution ─ Homo Sapiens “Aspergers Edition”
Showing in open national traditions will be prohibited. No china towns and etc. WE must create our own culture ─ best from everything. |
Government-enforced cultural practices.
| Quote: | | Alcohol, nicotine, heroine are in one list and prohibited. Drug addicted people will be cured by force. Drug dealers executed. You will go to prison for 15 days for being drunk no matter at home or not.(only 1 human cell in prisons of course) |
Presumably, you'll have your door kicked in if they suspect you're drinking alcohol, and if you're an addict, the government will seize you by force and cure you.
This is what we in the political business call a "police state".
| Quote: | WE should start to unite. WE must start to find aspies who live not above from us and create an aspie safeplaces. WE must help each other. Internet will be our main instrument in that.
Maybe we have aspie president someplace who will help us to create country of Anonymous :─) |
*sigh* People like you are the reason we aren't able to unite - there's too much disagreement about the who's and how's of implementing such a plan, with some wanting to breed a "super race" of Aspies, which naturally draws the comparison with Hitler.
If you want Aspies to unite and push for such a proposal, ala World Zionist Organisation, drop the racial superiority complex and the plans for a police state. Maybe then I will support an Aspie Congress.
_________________
"The only universal message in science fiction: There exist minds that think as well as you do, but differently." - Larry Niven
http://needsmoremarshmallows.blogspot.co.uk/ |
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