Post 3766845 - Re: Aspergers and above average IQ (Aspergers and above average IQ)

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Aspergers and above average IQ

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Only_an_egg
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: Oct 19, 2009
Posts: 28

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Aspergers and above average IQ

Tollorin wrote:

Highly intelligent peoples can have problems at socialising, but it don't make them asperger per see. It comes from different problems. (like overexcitabilities and intellectual interests) Also it's not true that asperger is the "geeky" syndrome. Not all aspies are interessed in informatic, mathematics, sciences and geeky stuffs. And not all aspergers are smarts either.

I was giving you a bit of history, describing observations I made in the past and how I tried to categorize and understand them Note the question marks.

What I, personally did with my observations was to come to conclusions that were logical for me, at the time, as a working hypothesis.

In fact the reason I discovered this site is because I needed to understand someone who is important to me who didn't fit my internal pigeonhole for Asperger's --as I understood it at the time. He doesn't relate well to his computer or to math or engineering. He teaches and writes. He studied philosophy, something my more "classic" Aspie friend thinks of as a waste of time. But he produces some inexplicable social behaviors.

We have known each other for 14 years. I've adapted to socializing on his terms, but I still come in for shocks every now and then. I got hurt enough recently to be motivated to go look up exactly what "passive aggressive" is supposed to mean. I found a discussion where women were telling horror-stories of their relationships with the men in their lives, and one woman commented on another's that "it sounds like he has Asperger's." That got me woken up just enough to begin searching anew, and I found WP.

This has been a revelation for me.

So you can tell me NOW that my perceptions were an internally-created over-simplified category, but NOW is after I've spent a lot of time reading some of the very enlightening conversations here, such as the one where NTs and Aspies ask and answer questions. I love anthropology, and the kind of sci fi that involves alien cultures. well, this is like that for me.

I truly want to understand the other people around me.

I would be interested in finding out what you meant by :

Tollorin wrote:

Highly intelligent peoples can have problems at socialising, but it don't make them asperger per see. It comes from different problems. (like overexcitabilities and intellectual interests) .

My guess would be things like when I get so fascinated with a subject that I get kind of obsessive about it and consequently run the risk of being boring about it to friends.

And that the KINDS of things that can interest people who's only problem is being overly bright can be impenetrable to "normals." ( I do recall feeling lonely when I had figured out the difference in information carrying capacity between PCM and SACD digital encoding systems, and couldn't find anyone else to care about it.)

CerebralDreamer
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 516

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject:

Actually, if you read about Raven's Progressive Matrices, standard IQ tests don't accurately measure the intelligence of autistic individuals. Raven's Progressive Matrices tends to give a more accurate figure. I could easily see an Aspie on a very bad day, stressed out, almost nonverbal scoring a 60 on an official IQ test. When our mind shuts down, it literally SHUTS DOWN.

HarryHaller
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: Jan 17, 2009
Age: 24
Posts: 45
Location: South Bend, IN

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject:

I don't believe in IQ's. My father is a physician and I can tell because of his son (me), he thinks that human capability is infinite. There are so many people that wear their IQ's around their neck (to speak figuratively). I have read about famous people: Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke and countless other people who found that joining MENSA was like hanging out with douche bags lol. If any of you have heard of Howard Gardner's work titled MI (Multiple Intelligence) he makes very good observations. First of all, he says that IQ tests only test logico-mathematic and linguistic areas of intelligence, and not musical and five other intelligences. His theory that there are 7 intelligences seems to be relevant to this forum because he tested the capabilities of idiot savants as well as people who don't have that logico-mathematic intelligence, but they may have an intelligence in music or spatial intelligence (ability to navigate). Before people begin to argue with me, I would like to say that a lot of people can pass tests but there are also intelligent people who don't test well or aren't test-takers. People have told me that I am intelligent, but this is usually something I don't really know yet because they probably see me at face value. My strengths are not in mathematics but linguistic and intrapersonal intelligence. I am probably not welcome here since I am probably the most illogical or irrational person on this forum, but my intelligence is in expression.

diesct20022000
Hummingbird

Joined: Dec 05, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 24

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:04 am Post subject:

I can't personaly verify this with the exception that my doctor has stated it to be factual (and my reasearch supports this claim) that we aspies are in the "normal" to hi range. this means that...we aren't "slow" as a pre requesite to having AS you supposedly can't have a below "normal" I.Q. Bare in mind that the AVERAGE is 100-118 but, the NORMAL range is 80-100. I.Q. is circumstantial at best imo anyway as i'm proof that it doesn't necessarily mean advancement. to really progress we need social complexities that we lack and i'm partial to this as well...it brings bouts of depression and self doubt and yet as a 9th grade drop out i tested at 158 which isn't genius (thank science!) but, "highly gifted". it's done nothing but, cause issue for me though as i have no real outlet to verify this other than my family stating it so or my doctors agreeing. I also cannot do simple algebra or at least retain the knowledge of it's workings. i can learn maths quickly but, anything abstract mathmateicaly i cannot retain and within days of non use i lose and have to start over again. I can lear things in general very rapidly but, again i lose this if i find another interest. I used to be a chemistry wiz and now couldn't tell you much other than getting iron sulfate in your eye can cause you to lose it. Anyway, research supports (DSMV-IV and i believe V) that in order to have AS you must have social deficits or as i like to call it "social dyslexia" have the inability to INSTINCTIVELY ( we can and DO learn them) read and respond apropriately to social cues (including understanding them at all) and that to rule out OTHER autism spectrum disorders, you MUST have a MINIMUM of "normal" intelligence quotient. normal doesn't mean average and average is what we tend to equate to normal so 80 to me is pretty low on the list but, is still considered normal and not being of inferior intellectual capabilities.

diesct20022000
Hummingbird

Joined: Dec 05, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 24

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:09 am Post subject:

CerebralDreamer wrote:

Actually, if you read about Raven's Progressive Matrices, standard IQ tests don't accurately measure the intelligence of autistic individuals. Raven's Progressive Matrices tends to give a more accurate figure. I could easily see an Aspie on a very bad day, stressed out, almost nonverbal scoring a 60 on an official IQ test.

When our mind shuts down, it literally SHUTS DOWN. Laughing

you're correct. I have actualy tested this on myself. at my good point of 158 it drops to about 145 in a crowd and a loud crwd that's rude i'm to the point of barely being able to repeat my name. sit me in a quiet room with electronics,instruments, or about anything else and i can have it assimilated within a few hours depending on what length it is i literally shut down the more frustrated i get so there are many times i barely function.

notcoyote
Butterfly

Joined: Mar 22, 2009
Posts: 11

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:45 am Post subject:

I got steven hawking beat on IQ mobility and looks hes written more books than me though lol!!

DevilInside
Blue Jay

Joined: Oct 19, 2010
Age: 27
Posts: 88
Location: Belgium

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:35 am Post subject:

diesct20022000 wrote:

CerebralDreamer wrote:

thank you. As i've posted in other treads (maybe you read those?) raven's progressive matrices are the least biased tests of general intelligence out there. it's just that for "neurotypicals", Raven's and standard IQ tests provide nearly exactly the same percentiles.

Kaybee
invisible fox
Phoenix

Joined: Oct 07, 2009
Posts: 3446
Location: A hidden forest

Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:20 am Post subject:

CerebralDreamer wrote:

This reminds me of being 5 years old. My school had a standardized test administered to all incoming kindergarteners, to determine whether to place them in the slower class or the faster class in reading and math. I took the test. The woman administering it was huge (or so it seemed to my 5-year-old self). I was terrified. The school determined me to be bordering on very slow and learning disabled and placed me in the slow kids classes. Some weeks later, my mother disagreed and I was given the test again. This time, the administrator was a normal-sized, non-intimidating woman. I ended up with exceptionally high scores and was switched into the faster classes.

How drastically functionality can vary as a result of such minor things.
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livingsunset
Hummingbird

Joined: Jun 16, 2011
Posts: 18

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:19 pm Post subject:

Highly Gifted Socially Isolated Independent of Age Mates Highly Focused Interest Advanced, Sophisticated Vocabulary Complex Cognition Advanced Understanding Asperger’s Syndrome Socially Inept Unskilled with Age Mates Highly Focused Interest Hyperlexia Simple Cognition Advanced Memorization A person with BOTH will be able to memorize and understand. They will be more flexible and not need to follow routine and they will also be EXTREMELY sensitive to the emotions of those around them. Also, you can be gifted and have learning disabilities that go undetected due to the ability to compensate. IQ tests are worthless, IMO.

SammichEater
Now 30% Cooler
Phoenix

Joined: Mar 07, 2011
Age: 19
Posts: 3823

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:31 pm Post subject:

livingsunset wrote:

Highly Gifted
Socially Isolated
Independent of Age Mates
Highly Focused Interest
Advanced, Sophisticated Vocabulary
Complex Cognition
Advanced Understanding

Asperger’s Syndrome
Socially Inept
Unskilled with Age Mates
Highly Focused Interest
Hyperlexia
Simple Cognition
Advanced Memorization

A person with BOTH will be able to memorize and understand. They will be more flexible and not need to follow routine and they will also be EXTREMELY sensitive to the emotions of those around them.

Also, you can be gifted and have learning disabilities that go undetected due to the ability to compensate. IQ tests are worthless, IMO.

I think I'm probably a little bit of both. It's like this; am I socially isolated because I'm socially inept, or am I socially inept because I'm socially isolated?

But, as I was going to say, my intelligence is like this:

If the test is timed, my scores are about average, or slightly above that, in the 50-60 percentile.

But if the test isn't timed, I'm always at exactly 98 percentile. Every time.

Neuotypical011
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

Joined: Jun 22, 2011
Posts: 2

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:17 am Post subject:

Hey, neurotypical here. Well, sort of - I have ADHD diagnosed by a neuropsychologist, an ADHD specialist, and a general psychiatrist. It's also suspected that I have Bipolar-II, based on a three day hypomanic episode and many long bouts of depression. I'm really fascinated by ASD - so much so that people online think the intensity of my obsession with ASD might be indicative of ASD. I do relate to having a "special interest" (which would be psychiatry) that I can bore people with very easily if I don't watch out, haha. Anyone who met me IRL would not for a moment think I was on the autism spectrum though. This is my first post here. I just wanted to chip in what I know. People with ASD tend to do very well on the Raven's Progressive Matricies test, and they tend to complete the test at nearly twice the speed of NT's. On the WAIS block design test people with aspergers perform significantly faster. Research has shown that people with engineers in their family are more likely to also have autism in their family. I don't think the question should be if people with ASD have higher IQ's, but rather if they have subsets of intelligence that is superior compared to the normal population. I think the answer to this would be yes. People with ASD can tend to excel in nonverbal reasoning, visualization, and sometimes verbal memory. There are other mental disorders that have other associated upsides as well (e.g., people with Bipolar or with relatives that have Bipolar tend to be more talented at English and Science...though probably not so much when the science gets math-heavy)

Nordlys
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: Apr 21, 2011
Posts: 298
Location: Italy, Lombardy region

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:53 am Post subject:

I did raven progressive matrix test and i had 108, 116 and 103. And since i took those test online, i guess i have to remove 20 points. _________________ Vaccines can cause cancer in cats. Think about that, before vaccine yours (I'm owner of a VAS survivor cat) - Sorry for bad english (and bad norwegian), I'm italian - 2012 - år av nordlys... og sørlys. - La diversità è l'elemento principe del mondo -

ruveyn
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29316
Location: New Jersey

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Aspergers and above average IQ

DentArthurDent wrote:

I often read on this forum about how those with Aspergers Syndrome have above average to high IQ's. This argument is often used by 'aspie elitists' to defend their position. someone in PPR has just asked the question wheres the proof. So I had a quick search around and came up empty. As General seems to be a bastion for this belief I was wondering if any of you can provide evidence for this belief? Until this morning I also accepted this as true.

I suspect that this is an exaggeration. I have seen no statistical evidence indicating Aspies have a higher intelligence than the average in the NT community. Before computers, no one bothered much is the Asperger type autistic.

ruveyn

AspieOtaku
Leader of the Otaku Legion
Phoenix

Joined: Feb 18, 2012
Age: 30
Posts: 5893
Location: Mountain View, California, United States

Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:38 am Post subject:

My IQ was 111 at the age of 5. I am very proficient in science however my math skills are lacking. I can study for days at math and still fail miserably on math tests it really sucks. I do not know what my IQ is now but strangely enough I can pick up languages most NTs find difficult like Mandarin in a matter of weeks and speak just enough to converse in. But I think it comes into the curiosity factor of things and interest. If I am not interested in a subject or do not like it, no matter how hard I try or force myself, things do not seem to click, and if they do things go rather sluggishly. Math is my kryptonite.

OJani
a brat
Phoenix

Joined: Feb 24, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 2320
Location: Budapest, Hungary, Europe

Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:48 am Post subject:

livingsunset wrote:

Hyperlexia and advanced memorization don't apply to me. I'm a slow reader and my memory is sluggish. My strengths are visuo-spatial, which were clearly shown by the two subtests of PRI (perceptual reasoning index, WAIS-IV), block design and matrix reasoning. It seems this was one of the reasons why the psychs denied an Asperger dx from me, but I wonder how many times they diagnose someone with one at other clinics when they have the same or similar subscale scatter, as I'd bet anything that most of the techie or geeky "Aspies" have the same.

Hyperlexia and andvanced memorization are associated with better verbal comprehension index (VCI), and some of the psychs (obviously not all) regard it as a hallmark of Asperger's.

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