| abortion and capital punishment: your opinions? |
| pro-life; anti death penalty |
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13% |
[ 13 ] |
| pro-life; pro death penalty |
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9% |
[ 9 ] |
| pro-choice; anti death penalty |
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47% |
[ 44 ] |
| pro-choice; pro death penalty |
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29% |
[ 27 ] |
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| Total Votes : 93 |
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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my problem with death penalty is that we are talking about the human mind, to be honest i find that death penalty could be used if it was shown their actions was a choice and that they were "sane" (i hate these terms they are too simplistic under the best of circumstance)
however i dont think we know nearly enough to make these claims or to say if such a thing even exists, maybe everyone doing these deeds have very specific deficiancies, unfortunately this could lead to the gattaca effect.
"I belonged to a new underclass, no longer determined by social status or the color of your skin. No, we now have discrimination down to a science. "
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
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blauSamstag
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2011
Posts: 1880
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Oodain wrote: | my problem with death penalty is that we are talking about the human mind, to be honest i find that death penalty could be used if it was shown their actions was a choice and that they were "sane" (i hate these terms they are too simplistic under the best of circumstance)
however i dont think we know nearly enough to make these claims or to say if such a thing even exists, maybe everyone doing these deeds have very specific deficiancies, unfortunately this could lead to the gattaca effect.
"I belonged to a new underclass, no longer determined by social status or the color of your skin. No, we now have discrimination down to a science. " |
Well, we know for sure that Anders Breivik won't die at the hands of his government - my money is on vigilante justice - so we can use him as a hypothetical.
Lets say that he's crazy. He probably is crazy. What level of crazy must he be at to where we (a) can't hold him culpable and thus shouldn't kill him, but (b) he is still enough of a danger to society that we shouldn't let him out on the street?
My feeling is that he is both crazy and culpable. And i won't shed a tear for him if someone decides to put him down. |
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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neither would i,
i wouldnt be happy about it either.
since they are prosecuting every single murder independently he can receive so high a sentence as to never be released (dont know if they have a limit)
in the end it is cheaper to lock him up than it is to implement a death penalty.
from where i stand with how little we know about the brain and the numerous arguments against it, DP really is all about vengeance.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
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Philologos
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 22, 2010
Posts: 6977
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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There is no such thing as a free lunch OR an easy choice if your eyes are open. For every pro there is an equal and opposite caon [pun intended].
Without omniscience [which I fo sho do not have] how do you calculate the balance betwee the wrongly convicted dead and the victims of the Elba effect. |
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DarthMetaKnight
Handyman
Joined: Feb 17, 2010
Posts: 1932
Location: Cosmic Horror Story
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Pro-choice; anti death penalty
I already said why I am anti death penalty in another thread. Not gonna repeat myself.
I am pro-choice at all stages of pregnancy but I wish other pro-choice people would stop calling the pro-life position inherently misogynistic. It makes us look like douchebags.
_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre |
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blauSamstag
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2011
Posts: 1880
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Oodain wrote: | neither would i,
i wouldnt be happy about it either.
since they are prosecuting every single murder independently he can receive so high a sentence as to never be released (dont know if they have a limit)
in the end it is cheaper to lock him up than it is to implement a death penalty.
from where i stand with how little we know about the brain and the numerous arguments against it, DP really is all about vengeance. |
Norway has a 21-year maximum sentence. If they can make those consecutive that's news to me.
Funny thing about the cost of execution, it's more expensive in this country but in china it is very cheap. They bill your family for the bullet, though.
I do agree that if we let all the nonviolent drug offenders out of jail there would be plenty of room for murderers and kiddie diddlers.
I don't see vengeance as a good excuse for a state to kill someone. Removing them from society permanently is a good enough reason, if they can never be a positive part of it, why not. |
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:05 am Post subject: |
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actually it seems there is a 30 year limit if charged with crimes against humanity and the possibility of extending his sentence by 5 year periods indefinately if deemed to be a danger to the public (almost a given.)
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
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I_am_Kira
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Aug 02, 2011
Age: 21
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Pro-life and Pro-death penalty. I believe that everyone has the right to be born, to live, being a gift from God, but if they infringe on someone else's right to be alive (ie murdering someone else, raping them), then the offender no longer has the right to be alive, because by their actions, they have proven that they are no better than an animal, having thrown their human dignity away. It saddens me that the highest % so far of this poll support the exact opposite view. I don't understand the logic behind people who are pro-choice and anti-death penalty. They say it's ok to kill innocent, unborn children, but it's NOT ok to kill monsters that deprive other people of life and joy. "Oh, a fetus isn't a human". Well guess what, you were a fetus once too! And so was I, and everyone else alive today. And yes, the murders and rapists too, but could we tell at birth? No. Once they have revealed their true, evil nature, then they must face their judgment. Fear is a helpful deterant to crime. Make the penalties harsher, and less people, out of that fear, will want to commit such henious acts of evil. As it stands now, recidvism rates are ridiculously high; 70% of inmates return to jail within 3 years of their release, and that's only the ones who are caught again. We, as the tax payers, pay for these evildoers to eat, be clothed, etc. Why should we pay for a murder and/or a rapist to live while there are so many better uses for our money, especially with the economy and all. Why does the rapist get the food that should instead go to a staving family of innocents? And enough with "The death penalty's inhumane!" Nonsense. Does living a pointless, dull existence inside a prison cell for all of your life sound humane? Death is a form of mercy, so executing bad people actually does them a favour by getting it over with faster. Someone's going to respond, "Well, the cost of the trails is more expansive, blah blah blah." How much does it cost to build a noose? As for abortion, why would ANY AS support it? When they do pre-natal testing and find out that the fetus is pre-disposed to AS, the rate of abortion sky-rockets. Why? Because, people hate what is different, like us. Supporting abortion as an Aspie is advocating for your own kind's anihilation. Not to mention, abortion further decays family norms, which are already pretty dismal in this day and age. It propagates the idea that couples no longer have to be responsible for their actions, which causes even worse societal issues that aren't particularly relavent to pro-life vs. pro-choice (feel free to ask me about them, though), and that innocent human lives are garbage. 93% of abortions occur simply because the child is unwanted, 6% for birth complications, and only 1% for rapes. By letting off rapists easily, they rape more girls, leading to more abortions. It's an endless cycle. I know I'm going to get many haters by my response, and you know what? Bite me. If you can't see the reason in this, then you're a lost cause. My only dismay is that, even among intelligent individuals like us Aspies, there are those who are willing to turn a blind eye to injustice. I thought we were better than that. As it turns out, many of you oppose these notions. I can only hope that at least some people saw the light of reason in what I'm saying. It's probably not very likely. Oh well. I tried. I'll sum this up: innocent people deserve to live, and bad people deserve to die. It's as simple as that. |
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blauSamstag
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2011
Posts: 1880
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| I_am_Kira wrote: | | Pro-life and Pro-death penalty. I believe that everyone has the right to be born, to live, being a gift from God, but if they infringe on someone else's right to be alive (ie murdering someone else, raping them), then the offender no longer has the right to be alive, because by their actions, they have proven that they are no better than an animal, having thrown their human dignity away. It saddens me that the highest % so far of this poll support the exact opposite view. I don't understand the logic behind people who are pro-choice and anti-death penalty. They say it's ok to kill innocent, unborn children, but it's NOT ok to kill monsters that deprive other people of life and joy. "Oh, a fetus isn't a human". Well guess what, you were a fetus once too! And so was I, and everyone else alive today. And yes, the murders and rapists too, but could we tell at birth? No. Once they have revealed their true, evil nature, then they must face their judgment. Fear is a helpful deterant to crime. Make the penalties harsher, and less people, out of that fear, will want to commit such henious acts of evil. As it stands now, recidvism rates are ridiculously high; 70% of inmates return to jail within 3 years of their release, and that's only the ones who are caught again. We, as the tax payers, pay for these evildoers to eat, be clothed, etc. Why should we pay for a murder and/or a rapist to live while there are so many better uses for our money, especially with the economy and all. Why does the rapist get the food that should instead go to a staving family of innocents? And enough with "The death penalty's inhumane!" Nonsense. Does living a pointless, dull existence inside a prison cell for all of your life sound humane? Death is a form of mercy, so executing bad people actually does them a favour by getting it over with faster. Someone's going to respond, "Well, the cost of the trails is more expansive, blah blah blah." How much does it cost to build a noose? As for abortion, why would ANY AS support it? When they do pre-natal testing and find out that the fetus is pre-disposed to AS, the rate of abortion sky-rockets. Why? Because, people hate what is different, like us. Supporting abortion as an Aspie is advocating for your own kind's anihilation. Not to mention, abortion further decays family norms, which are already pretty dismal in this day and age. It propagates the idea that couples no longer have to be responsible for their actions, which causes even worse societal issues that aren't particularly relavent to pro-life vs. pro-choice (feel free to ask me about them, though), and that innocent human lives are garbage. 93% of abortions occur simply because the child is unwanted, 6% for birth complications, and only 1% for rapes. By letting off rapists easily, they rape more girls, leading to more abortions. It's an endless cycle. I know I'm going to get many haters by my response, and you know what? Bite me. If you can't see the reason in this, then you're a lost cause. My only dismay is that, even among intelligent individuals like us Aspies, there are those who are willing to turn a blind eye to injustice. I thought we were better than that. As it turns out, many of you oppose these notions. I can only hope that at least some people saw the light of reason in what I'm saying. It's probably not very likely. Oh well. I tried. I'll sum this up: innocent people deserve to live, and bad people deserve to die. It's as simple as that. |
par·a·graph
/ˈpærəˌgræf, -ˌgrɑf/ [par-uh-graf, -grahf]
noun
1.
a distinct portion of written or printed matter dealing with a particular idea, usually beginning with an indentation on a new line.
2.
a paragraph mark.
3.
a note, item, or brief article, as in a newspaper. |
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ScientistOfSound
Hope I die before I get old
Joined: May 22, 2011
Age: 19
Posts: 1014
Location: In an evil testing facility
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Pro-Choice & Anti Death Penalty.
As much as I don't like the idea of senseless abortions, I think there should still be in place for women who are raped and do not want children.
I'm anti death penalty because in my opinion by taking somebodies life you're on the same level as them.
(Only replying to the thread, no debates please about how I'm a "scumbag liberal") |
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I_am_Kira
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Aug 02, 2011
Age: 21
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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[/quote]
par·a·graph
/ˈpærəˌgræf, -ˌgrɑf/ [par-uh-graf, -grahf]
noun
1.
a distinct portion of written or printed matter dealing with a particular idea, usually beginning with an indentation on a new line.
2.
a paragraph mark.
3.
a note, item, or brief article, as in a newspaper.[/quote]
Is that all you can say? Par-a-graph? Have you any feasible counter-arguement? No, you don't. That's why all you can do is criticize the length of my arguement. In case you haven't noticed, I'll point it out for you: this is a POLITICAL forum. Not a LITERARY forum. The reason why you cannot come up with any POLITICAL counter-arguement is that because you have nothing worth saying that is even remotely logical. Good day. |
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blauSamstag
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2011
Posts: 1880
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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par·a·graph
/ˈpærəˌgræf, -ˌgrɑf/ [par-uh-graf, -grahf]
noun
1.
a distinct portion of written or printed matter dealing with a particular idea, usually beginning with an indentation on a new line.
2.
a paragraph mark.
3.
a note, item, or brief article, as in a newspaper.[/quote]
Is that all you can say? Par-a-graph? Have you any feasible counter-arguement? No, you don't. That's why all you can do is criticize the length of my arguement. In case you haven't noticed, I'll point it out for you: this is a POLITICAL forum. Not a LITERARY forum. The reason why you cannot come up with any POLITICAL counter-arguement is that because you have nothing worth saying that is even remotely logical. Good day.[/quote]
I didn't criticize the length of your argument, i criticized the fact that it is hard to read, so hard that i suspect it is scarcely worth reading.
I think you oversimplify the statistic for 93% of abortions being because the baby is "unwanted".
I propose that a lot of people don't want a baby because they know they can't properly care for it. |
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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i had the exact same reaction to kira's post as he did.
it has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that it is very hard to actually read his post because of format(my perception anyway)
the world is larger than the us the rates he show would need some sources and context.
he also makes some very arogant assumptions "if you cannot.... lost cause...."
also nothing is ever that simple, nothing at all not even why you wash your hands after emptying your bladder.
if he still think so then please define innocent and bad in a way that is objectively verifiable for all humans, he is making the positive claim here after all.
so yes i could try to sort through that whole mess of a post and dig out what could be seen as valid arguments but in reality i shouldnt even have wasted this time on what is clearly more of an emotional rant than an actual argument.
**edit** serious case of misteken poster **edit2** or not, then again i think my points carry.
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
Last edited by Oodain on Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:53 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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mechanicalgirl39
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 07, 2009
Posts: 2338
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Anti death penalty because innocents can be convicted
Pro choice because women are f***ing human beings, not baby capsules.
_________________
'You're so cold, but you feel alive
Lay your hands on me, one last time' (Breaking Benjamin) |
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blauSamstag
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2011
Posts: 1880
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'll go ahead and restate my argument simply.
Pro-death-penalty - in extreme cases, because some people are no better than unruly dogs.
Pro-choice - because we can't stop people from having very good reasons to not want to have to raise a child. Necessary evil. I don't believe that any sane person has an easy time deciding to end a pregnancy. |
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