Post 3988737 - (Are Aspies more likely to have GID?)

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Are Aspies more likely to have GID?

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Shiyin
Butterfly

Joined: Sep 09, 2009
Posts: 16

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject:

Fnord wrote:

purchase wrote:

Yeah cause gender is a social construct.

No, gender is determined by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome.

Gender roles are social constructs.

The confusion is between common & academic uses of the words "gender" and "sex". They're commonly used to refer to the same thing. In academic use, psychological sciences, sociology, etc., "sex" refers to one's biology, and "gender" to social constructs.

CockneyRebel
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:04 am Post subject:

I've felt more male than female my entire life. I kept wondering if I lost my penis when I was little and I had a penis in my dreams. Every role model that I've ever had has been male to this day. I wanted to grow up to be like my dad. I wanted to be big and strong instead of growing up to be small and weak. I also wanted to look like a man when I grew up. I grew more dissatisfied with my gender with each passing year and I thought that my life was over when I started my period at the age of 10. I was given little warning except for the talk. A book would have been nice. I listened to all male bands and convinced that I was a John Lennon/Beatles Fan, I prayed to God that I would grow up to look like my favourite member of my favourite band. This was the Beatles Fan who sat in a chair when The Beatles were on the radio, yet I sat right on top of the radio when The Kinks were playing. I ended up looking like Mick Avory, which I feel blessed. _________________ The darling, unworldly Mick Avory with hands like shovels, who wouldn't dare choose to hurt a soul: I'm the cuddly, adorable Kink. Sweet Peas: http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j37/Cocknee/Kinks/Sweet%20Pea%20Smileys/ Other: http://www.mybrowsercash.com/

XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
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Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject:

mb1984 wrote:

XFilesGeek wrote:

My biological sex is female.

My gender is "none."

I am who I am. I dress how I want. I pursue my interests without regard as to whether they're "masculine" or "feminine." I present myself to others the way I feel most comfortable at any given moment, not caring at all if my gender ambiguity makes people uncomfortable. I couldn't care less what pronouns anyone uses to refer to me.

I've been told by various people throughout my life that I don't strike them as male or female.....I simply exist. Anyone attempting to put my in a box is going to be severely disappointed. There are particular biological realities that go along with physical sex, and there are some general trends, but, beyond that, the concepts of "masculine" and "feminine" don't exist outside of the socio-cultural imagination of a certain time period.

In the meantime, keep yer stinkin' "gender" OFF of me. Thank you.

You've described very closely how I feel as well. I don't fully feel "male" or "female". I don't know what that means, to feel that way. I am me, I only know what that feels like. I have strong feelings at this point that I'm needing to move forward in my physical transition though, as I'm becoming more and more dysphoric with my body. It's gotten to the point where I would almost consider it disabling.

Sounds familiar. Very Happy

Welcome to "Club Crazy."
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thousands
Emu Egg
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject:

Thank you for that. Not the easiest thing in the world to explain, tis true. Closest I ever got was comparing the two genders to a pair of sine waves, each with exactly the same shape and amplitude, except they're 180 degrees out of phase with each other. Put 'em together and they cancel each other out, giving you a flat line.

kittylover
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: May 24, 2008
Posts: 178
Location: Orange County, California

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject:

My parents blame my AS for my transsexual identification. They say that it makes me jump to the most extreme conclusion possible, that I'm fully transsexual rather than "merely" a crossdresser or gay. I've strongly felt like a girl inside for 15 years - that hardly seems like "jumping to conclusions". (I'm 29 now, and trying to transition lest I kill myself.) Anecdotally, I've noticed that a lot of my trans friends have symptoms of ASDs, far more than I've seen in people in general. Although empirical studies would be necessary to prove this, I have a feeling that AS and GID have similar causes and occur together with much higher probability than would otherwise be expected. I wish my parents would understand this and accept me for who I really am. =(

mb1984
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Joined: Feb 05, 2011
Posts: 432

Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject:

I'm hoping to transition in the (near) future as well. I found this link about autistic traits in female-male transsexuals (which is what I am) http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/224443.php _________________ AQ Score: 44/50 Aspie Quiz: 175/200-Aspie 31/200-NT Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams. Ralph Waldo Emerson

visagrunt
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject:

Fnord wrote:

No, gender is determined by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome.

Gender roles are social constructs.

As I am wont to say in my more didactic moments, "Nouns have gender. People have sex." Strictly speaking, gender has nothing whatsoever to do with human beings--it is a grammatical term that has been borrowed. And to the extant that the borrowing has become normalized, gender refers to sexual identity rather than sexual physiology.

The typical distinction used in clinical settings is that "sex" is used to refer to physiological characteristics and "gender" to psychological characteristics.

There are--at a minimum--five different aspect of sex in humans:

1) Sexual karyotype. There are a multiplicity of these, but by far the most common are the XX and XY genotypes, which correspond to female and male, respectively. However, there are many people who are born with other genotypes, such as XXY (Klinefelter's), X- (Turner). Conservatively, 1 birth in 1000 involves an atypcial karyotype--that means that as many as 300,000 people in the United States are intersexed based on their genes, where the mere presence or absence of a Y chromosome is not determinative of their genetic sex.

2) Physiological sex. A person's body may not match their karyotype. For example, a person with XY karyotype and Swyer's syndrome will be genetically male, but physiologically that person will have no male genitalia. True hermaphrodites will obviously have physiological divergence from their sexual karyotype, as will many people with conditions such as hypoganism and gonadal dysgenesis.

3) Sexual orientation.

4) Sexual identity. Here is the first place where the word, "gender," is properly used in a clinical context. Gender identity disorder and gender dysphoria are generally accepted diagnostic labels.

5) Social sex role. Here, again, the psychological, rather than the physiological nature of the disorder has allowed for wider use of the word, "gender," rather than, "sex."

So it's not merely about whether or not you have a Y chromosome.
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Infinity183
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Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:06 am Post subject:

I've found the gender identity situation to be really weird for me. I am a straight male, but I've had strong feelings that I'd be happier in a girl's body since I was 12, around the time I started to really undergo puberty. What I find strange is that whenever I'm aroused by a girl, my mind always seems to desire being a girl far more than simply wanting to be in a relationship with one or something. I've felt increasingly certain about my identity as a girl for several years, but I've started to think twice a little in recent months. This might have to do with the fact that I've gotten a lot more socially active than I was before, and therefore I feel more constrained by general norms of gender and sexuality. I don't talk with a lisp and I have mostly male interests. Granted, I do have a fair share of feminine traits as well, such as a love for anything cute or pink, as well as kind of a deeply-empathetic, nurturing sort of personality, but I feel like it's just not enough for me to break from this new feeling of conformity I've developed. I worry that going down the transgender path will hold me back from a lot of my life goals, and so I guess I've just shied away from the whole thing. Whatever the situation is, I just think I'm a weird, exceptional case of the whole thing.

visagrunt
Polymath
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Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:38 am Post subject:

Well, of course you're exceptional--you are a unique individual, after all. Identity is not a static thing--as you mature, so does your understanding of yourself. You may always have this disconnect that understands a part of yourself to be female--maybe you are mostly male, maybe you are pretty evenly split. But weird you are not. Atypical, perhaps. But not weird. _________________ --James

kittylover
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: May 24, 2008
Posts: 178
Location: Orange County, California

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject:

Infinity183, I think I'm similar to you. My sexual fantasies/desires were always backward like that, with me wanting to be the woman instead of being with the woman. The autogynephilia I had was confusing - I thought that I simply had a weird fetish, and a lot of guys do. Eventually, though, the feelings began getting stronger, particularly after learning what transsexualism is. The autogynephilia turned into full-blown gender dysphoria. Years later, I now am desperate enough to be female that I have a lot of suicidal thoughts. Hugs <3 I know what you're going through, sweetie.

mb1984
Velociraptor

Joined: Feb 05, 2011
Posts: 432

Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject:

kittylover wrote:

Eventually, though, the feelings began getting stronger, particularly after learning what transsexualism is.

That's how it was for me, once I learned that it was actually "something" and I wasn't just crazy. Particularly after realizing how relatively easy it will be for me to start hormone therapy. I am like you, desperate to the point of almost suicide...but I am so SCARED at the same time.
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TheHouseholdCat
Phoenix
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject:

purchase wrote:

Fnord wrote:

purchase wrote:

Yeah cause gender is a social construct.

No, gender is determined by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome.

Gender roles are social constructs.

Gender is a construct. Biological sex is a fact. That's how I use those terms anyway.

Otherwise there wouldn't be two different terms.

Gender can be used synonymously with "gender role" I think.

Ambivalence wrote:

Both of you (appear to - apologies purchase if I'm wrong and you were avoiding getting in to the complexity) assume physical sex (which Fnord incorrectly calls gender) is binary (XX or XY and no other possibility) which is incorrect. There are all sorts of wacky (and some fairly frequent) chromosome combinations - XXX or XYY are examples - and it's even possible for one person to have more than one set of chromosomes (eg. XY and XXY.)

The weird thing about this binary is that many people want to make it a biological fact, even though it has never been biologically proven.

XFilesGeek wrote:

I think anyone should be allowed to simply exist. Which is why I kicked gender out of my life about... a year ago. I don't need it and I don't even want it. The only problem is other people who do not feel the same way.

I guess most people perceive me as female because I do buy clothes designed for women and I have long hair. And I do act like a girl in certain situations. But there are certain things that strike me as odd or "alien". Like high heels and make up.
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TheHouseholdCat
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject:

CockneyRebel wrote:

I've felt more male than female my entire life. I kept wondering if I lost my penis when I was little and I had a penis in my dreams. Every role model that I've ever had has been male to this day. I wanted to grow up to be like my dad. I wanted to be big and strong instead of growing up to be small and weak. I also wanted to look like a man when I grew up. I grew more dissatisfied with my gender with each passing year and I thought that my life was over when I started my period at the age of 10. I was given little warning except for the talk. A book would have been nice. I listened to all male bands and convinced that I was a John Lennon/Beatles Fan, I prayed to God that I would grow up to look like my favourite member of my favourite band. This was the Beatles Fan who sat in a chair when The Beatles were on the radio, yet I sat right on top of the radio when The Kinks were playing. I ended up looking like Mick Avory, which I feel blessed.

I wonder whether having male role models as a girl means that there simply are not enough female role models or whether it's just... the way you feel about it.

I can't think of many female role models myself and most people that I admire are male. My goals in life have been mostly achieved by men.

This also applies to fashion. Those few people in life whose fashion choices I admire are men, too.

I wouldn't say that I have felt "male" all my life, but that I definitely never felt "female". I don't think anyone feels male or female. I just don't believe anyone does. I think we just try to fit ourselves into ridiculous labels and boxes.

You know how anyone who identifies as "heterosexual" cringes at anything that does not fit that label? ^^ I don't think it's because they are "heterosexual" but because they have decided that they will be just that all their life.
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rosewood
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Joined: Apr 10, 2012
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Location: UK

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject:

Amusing to see the usual hilarious misunderstandings relating to sex and gender here ... but enough of such irony ... It seems to me quite reasonable to think that ASD and GID would have a higher-than random degree of coincidence. If both disorders involve atypical brain wiring, then it seems to me quite plausible that any gestational circumstances that favour the one might also, to some degree, favour the other. Research in this are is still, it seems, in its infancy. One can only encourage more of it. Does ASD worsen GID? One might argue that social difficulties arising through ASD would make it harder for an affected person to feel that he/she functioned well in the gender role corresponding to physical sex. But I find it quite hard to believe that it would be a cause of GID in people with ASD. As a TS aspie (MtF) I'm heartily glad to be rid of male genitalia and I just don't buy the notion that difficulty in fitting into a male social gender role could ever cause me to feel, as I did before GRS, utter disgust for my dangly bits.