Phonic
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!!!??
Joined: Apr 04, 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 1331
Location: The graveyard of discarded toy soldiers.
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 Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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We don't need a society of people like us, we need a diverse society of accepting people not necessarily like us, any open communal commune is a haven, any urban black hole is a nightmare, be it an aspie or NT one.
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'not only has he hacked his intellect away from his feelings, but he has smashed his feelings and his capacity for judgment into smithereens'. |
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Magneto
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
Age: 18
Posts: 897
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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I have recently, within the past hour, been browsing Wikipedia articles about the founding of the modern State of Israel - which naturally led me on to the article about Kibbutz's and their importance in building the state. After finding my way back to this thread by googling "Aspie supremacy", I came across this post of mine:
| Quote: | | Maybe we could get funding to make somekind of Aspie Academy? Thing of it as an education system developed especially for people with autism, as I've been discussing on another thread. Maybe mix in a bit of the Camphill movement ideas. Once we have that, we can progressively enlarge it, until it becomes somekind of university/village hybrid - there's a case to be made for including farming space and forest gardens from the very beginning, given that we may get some people who want to do farming, and the therapeutic nature of forest gardens. |
This, or at any rate the thoughts I had when writing, to my mind sounds like a Kibbutz for Aspies (I'm using Aspie as a shorthand for all autistics who are high enough functioning to join such a project; it's a much more used term than Autie). I was thinking, at the age of 8-14 - really, whatever point they're ready; I was thinking 12 as a general rule - children would go to board at the academy (obviously their parents would be within easy reach, being no more than a couple of miles away in the grounds of the Kibbutz). There, they'd be educated in whatever subject is their interest, probably teaching themselves much it. There would be a farm, as I've said, and cottages in the grounds - personally, I'd have it so married couples go to live in the cottages, with those who are unmarried living in the main buildings, although variations can be expected to suit the particular settlers. The source of profit would be the immense pool of talent one can expect to find - the Kibbutz would act as a negotiator, as it were. Say, for example, someone's special interest is washing machines, and as a result they can fix any washing machine you put before them. If people need theirs fixing, then, they can just come and pay up; the person doing the fixing gets a percentage, the Kibbutz takes the rest. Perhaps that was a bad example; maybe a more likely scenario is that of an Aspie who's interest is in fashion, who makes clothes to sell. But the source of revenue is clear.
I, of course, will not be involved in the day-to-day running of the Kibbutz's - I would rather take the role that the Rothschild's played in the formation of Israel, acting as a source of funding and advice. Now I just need to make my family rich... 
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"The only universal message in science fiction: There exist minds that think as well as you do, but differently." - Larry Niven
http://needsmoremarshmallows.blogspot.co.uk/ |
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Phonic
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!!!??
Joined: Apr 04, 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 1331
Location: The graveyard of discarded toy soldiers.
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Magneto, the kibbutz worked so well because they were founded by socialists and worked as stateless societies by common minded people, it's just not the same but I see the analogy, starting small, and the school truly is the starting point.
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'not only has he hacked his intellect away from his feelings, but he has smashed his feelings and his capacity for judgment into smithereens'. |
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SammichEater
Now 30% Cooler
Joined: Mar 07, 2011
Age: 19
Posts: 3823
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure I'm on board with the idea, but I'm not at all opposed to it either. It would be nice to be surrounded by people of my own kind, but I'm not sure it would work. |
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nikoa
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 21, 2011
Posts: 150
Location: Macedonia
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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I was depressed, all people are like crazy around me, i say one, they make own move,and say nine, actually, they listen what like listen them big ego. And i always realize that after conversation with nt person he or she has feeling that i took something from them, actually that is again them big ego, to find me downer than self, evean some if they have chance to see on camera that i nothing take, they continue to have that feeling, some of them tell me, some of them i see in them behavior.
Your idea have made me happy, i imagine that beautiful world. |
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Warsie
Lolicon Black Nationalist
Joined: Apr 04, 2008
Age: 22
Posts: 2895
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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There are already schools and colleges for autistic people. High schools and whatnot. There is this expensive-ass college in Vermont that is for "disabled" or something as well so there is a precedent.
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I am a Star Wars Fan, Warsie here.
Masterdebating on chi-city's south side.......!
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Magneto
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
Age: 18
Posts: 897
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Really? How similar is it to my "vision"? I'm asking because I want to know what's already been tried, what works etc, hence my interest in Israel.
It seems we have, at the very least, two kinds of "separatists" - the supremacists, who believe that Aspies (or Homo Aspergius, as they often say) is a superior kind of human to Enties (Homo Sapiens); and those who wish to be left alone by the rest of the world and have a place where they are safe to be themselves. Unfortunately, the former appear to outnumber the latter...
So, who else is interested in a nationbuilding plan?
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"The only universal message in science fiction: There exist minds that think as well as you do, but differently." - Larry Niven
http://needsmoremarshmallows.blogspot.co.uk/ |
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Phonic
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!!!??
Joined: Apr 04, 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 1331
Location: The graveyard of discarded toy soldiers.
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Unfortunately, the former appear to outnumber the latter... |
I find that supremely unlikely
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'not only has he hacked his intellect away from his feelings, but he has smashed his feelings and his capacity for judgment into smithereens'. |
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Magneto
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
Age: 18
Posts: 897
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:23 am Post subject: |
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So do I. It's probably because the supremacists are more vocal about their viewpoints, whereas separatists often just vaguely mumble about how they wish there was such a place... and most of them don't actually want a separate, Aspie, state. I don;t know where AgentPalpatine is on that particular spectrum... it would be nice to have a list of names, and their particular views on the matter.
Perhaps, in a few years, Ethnogensis may have happened to make it a much more viable proposition. I wouldn't be all that surprised to see people identifying as Aspie in that way. If that happens, we are in a stronger position.
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"The only universal message in science fiction: There exist minds that think as well as you do, but differently." - Larry Niven
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AgentPalpatine
Proponent of AspieBURG
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Posts: 1289
Location: Near the Delaware River
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Magneto wrote: |
I don;t know where AgentPalpatine is on that particular spectrum... it would be nice to have a list of names, and their particular views on the matter.
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Magneto, I'm honestly quite pleased to be remembered 8 months later. As I have stated previously, I think discussions of a "nation" are counter-productive at this point in time, for reasons I will explain below. I also believe that discussions of an "Aspie Community" should be encouraged.
Magneto draws examples from the creation of the State of Israel on May 15, 1948. The Zionist movement took more than 50 years to get to that point, and came within days of defeat in those 50 years more times than I can count.
A "nation", as in a sovereign government, generally has a reasonably defined territory and a monopoly on force in that territory. I am not aware of anywhere in the world where the aspie community currently has anywhere near the level of organization that would lead to that level of political influence, and it is probably counter-productive to suggest at this point.
Zionism grew out of almost 1900 years of living in Exile after the last major revolts in (what is now) Israel against the Romans, while Aspies currently have less than 15 years of online discussions. I think discussions of an "Aspie Community" would be much more productive. |
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Magneto
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
Age: 18
Posts: 897
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously. I'm not suggesting we upsticks right now and declare an independent nation, and I'd much prefer to trial my Kibbutzim idea before attempting to put it in to practice. However, one must realise that times move quicker in the modern age, and also that settlers were arriving in Israel several decades prior to it's founding.
Also, the term nation is distinct from the term state, though they are often used interchangeably. I do recognise that the formation of a sovereign *state* is unrealistic at the current time; however, the creation of a *nation* - a collection of communities - within another state is not (shame; I was looking forward to forming the Aspie Defence Force  ).
Before that, of course, must come the establishment of a single, prototype, aspie community. Here, the first question must be location. Certain countries are out, I fear, due to the meddling one can expect from their government - I do not trust them to not send in the child protection services on the pretext that autistic parents are incapable of being good parents. However, it must be somewhere politically stable, with cheap land and access to "civilisation". I'm thinking perhaps a European country?
Then we need to select a model. I, personally, am partial to my modified Kibbutz notion, however it would seem to be best if we design it to be modifiable if whichever attempt being trialled doesn't work.
Of course, for all this we need funding - and organisation. If somekind of small group was formed, perhaps they could raise the issue at Autreat (disclaimer: I've never been to Autreat), or somesuch?
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"The only universal message in science fiction: There exist minds that think as well as you do, but differently." - Larry Niven
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AgentPalpatine
Proponent of AspieBURG
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Posts: 1289
Location: Near the Delaware River
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Magneto, I think this topic should be spun into it's own thread, this one is far too long and has too many off-topic posts. |
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AspianCitizen
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Aug 02, 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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For few year now I readed such discution there and there. I'm very favorable to the emergence of an Aspie nation, since all those palabre never ended in any action I taked the initiative to go further and act. I founded Aspia, «a different nation».
| Magneto wrote: | | Also, the term nation is distinct from the term state, though they are often used interchangeably. |
You are right on that, the term nation is distinct from the term state and have different meaning. Here in canada we have many nations inside the state. The Native are the firts nations and the federal governament recently officialy recognised the obvious fact that Quebekers are a nation inside of Canada.
| Magneto wrote: | | I do recognise that the formation of a sovereign *state* is unrealistic at the current time; however, the creation of a *nation* - a collection of communities - within another state is not (shame; I was looking forward to forming the Aspie Defence Force ). |
Agree 100%
| Magneto wrote: | | Before that, of course, must come the establishment of a single, prototype, aspie community. |
| Magneto wrote: | | Then we need to select a model. |
We need to select many model in fact and take for their experience what fit us the best. For now Aspia developement is based on a component oriented and networked approche.
| Magneto wrote: | | Perhaps, in a few years, Ethnogensis may have happened to make it a much more viable proposition. I wouldn't be all that surprised to see people identifying as Aspie in that way. If that happens, we are in a stronger position. |
I hope! |
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AspianCitizen
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Aug 02, 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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I just readed about kibboutzim, moshavim and moshavim shitufiim on wikipedia. It's an interresting exemple, even if I beleave that kibboutzim are a too «bold social experiment» for my taste. The moshavim shitufiim are for me a more sane and suitable exemple to borrow from.
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EliRush
Emu Egg
Joined: Jul 30, 2011
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:42 am Post subject: |
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I'm on board, and I posted my proposal in the General Forum called "AspieTown" if anyone is interested. I can't do a link because I am new here.
I have tried building on raw land without gobs of money and it is damn hard. |
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