| What poses a bigger threat to us? |
| Our own global elite |
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88% |
[ 22 ] |
| Radical Islam |
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12% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 25 |
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phil777
Phoenix
Joined: May 21, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 4825
Location: Montreal, Québec
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 Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| Inu is guilty of what we call in anthropology "essentialism". Religious texts do not a person make. Nor are they representative of the whole variety of religious movements affiliated within it. |
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Inuyasha
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 9745
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| phil777 wrote: | | Inu is guilty of what we call in anthropology "essentialism". Religious texts do not a person make. Nor are they representative of the whole variety of religious movements affiliated within it. |
*sigh
phil777, you are guilty of taking me out of context, deliberately I might add.
I was pointing out the difference in religious texts, Judaism is largely centered on the area that present day Israel is located, they weren't given a license to try to conquer the world.
Then we have the fact that much of the violence we saw with Christianity was quite frankly because people could not read the Bible for themselves and thus believed everything that authority figures stated, chalk that up to illiteracy.
If you look at Muslim scripture, the situation is entirely different, I'm not saying all Muslims are evil or anything of that nature. I'm merely pointing out that their religious text calls for taking over the world where everyone must become Muslim, or submit to become servants and slaves, or die. |
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phil777
Phoenix
Joined: May 21, 2008
Age: 26
Posts: 4825
Location: Montreal, Québec
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Seeing as I've never read those texts for myself, I'll refrain from formulating an opinion. Although from the snippets that I've been fed, it obviously doesn't look very rosy. |
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Abgal64
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 17, 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 408
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| Tequila wrote: | | Abgal64 wrote: | | Note that just because someone dislikes Western civilization does not make them some sort of idiotic Totalitarian. |
It does if you want to bring it down by force or wish to change our way of life, yes, or if you demand special privileges for your bile.
My advice to you would be the same as to our South Asian-born Islamists: find a country that is more to your liking. If you don't like the West, don't live here. |
No, disliking a particular civilization is unrelated to one's ideology with regards to statecraft. What you just said makes as much sense as saying that someone who dislikes Ethiopia is an anti-monarchist because, until the abolition of the monarchy in 1974, Ethiopia was the oldest continuous monarchistic political system on Earth; furthermore, you did not even give justifications for your position.
And, I will remind you that, since you talk of wanting to bring peoples down by force or change their ways of life, your beloved Britain did just that to the Desi with the British Raj by controlling the courts of most of the Desi Subcontinent, destroying the economy of the Subcontinent and forcing changing the Desi's way of life. So, if you wish to talk about bringing civilizations down by force, just like the British did with the Mughal Empire, the Mysore Kingdom and the Sikh Empire, forcing a change in people's ways of life, as clearly must have happened on the Desi Subcontinent with the effective collapse of it's economy, then look to Britain for among the best examples in human history.
I am, by the way, strictly against special privileges for anyone's beliefs, be they religious or otherwise, and so do not assume that I want them for what you so eloquently term my "bile."
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Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
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Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5378
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Abgal64 wrote: | Note that just because someone dislikes Western civilization does not make them some sort of idiotic Totalitarian. Can someone not dislike Middle Eastern Civilizations, from the Persians and the Moors to the Ancient Egyptians and the Turks, Mesoamerican civilization, or its modern descendants, or, what appears to be quite common on this board from my experiences at least, ALL Subsaharan African Civilizations, from the Yoruba and the Shona to the Amhara and the Swahili, and have intelligent reasons why? Does preferring Malayali culture to English culture, as I do, make me a lover of Kim Il-Sung?
Perhaps instead of the DPRK you would prefer Botswana, Turkey or Singapore, Vexcalibur? |
It is bullshit all along. I just stated that the biggest threat to western civilization is its own people. That does not imply any dislike of me against western civilization. It is, however, true.
Historically, The biggest threats to all civilizations were from the inside. Our current lovely civilization has topped every other in technology, but in the process we have raised a bunch of idiots. I'd like anyone to try to argue with this fact instead of saying OMG move to NK (Although I appreciate Tequila and Inuyasha for helping my point by showing exactly what sort of people the western civilization has created)
The Romans ended Rome. Civilizations like ours are doomed to implosion.
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26039
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Abgal64 wrote: | | No, disliking a particular civilization is unrelated to one's ideology with regards to statecraft. What you just said makes as much sense as saying that someone who dislikes Ethiopia is an anti-monarchist because, until the abolition of the monarchy in 1974, Ethiopia was the oldest continuous monarchistic political system on Earth. |
In the case of radical Islam (and Irish republicanism for that matter) the two often go hand-in-hand and are closely related. Not many people would know your point about Ethiopia being a monarchy - I certainly didn't! - and I would submit that almost everyone confronted with that fact would consider it a bizarre point to bring up (more likely their beef with Ethiopia would be to do with mass immigration from there but I digress).
A dislike of a certain political position often leads to an overall dislike of the person or entity pushing it. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29309
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Walt Kelly said it: We have met The Enemy and he is us.
ruveyn |
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petitesouris
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 14, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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This question is difficult to answer because you are not specific about which elites you refer to. If you are referring to those in charge of the UN and the EU (who are more about control then any concern for human rights) or Barack Hussein Obama, then I will have to choose the first answer. Right wing "elites" like Cheney may prove to be equally harmful if islam influences capitalism and they sacrifice the West for profit. Otherwise why is it that globalist "elites" such as our last president wanted Turkey to join the EU?
Islam and the fringe left and other "elites" are competitors for domination. Even if they appear to oppose each other at times, they do not care about freedom if theirs is not impinged. The leftists will force us to tolerate the intolerable while dismantling law and order, which will make islam flourish. Social, economic, and ecological destruction will perpetuate each other.
Last edited by petitesouris on Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:09 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Awesomelyglorious
Destroyer of worlds, reaver of souls
Joined: Dec 18, 2005
Posts: 14174
Location: Omnipresent
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Probably something more like a collapse in resources. Radical islam and our elites aren't that threatening.
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26039
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| petitesouris wrote: | | Otherwise why is it that globalist "elites" such as our last president wanted Turkey to join the EU? |
Put it this way: outside the political elite in Britain that idea is seen as about as desirable as a cup of cold sick. Even more so on the continent where national politicians stand on a platform of opposing Turkish entry into the EU. Countries like Austria are especially vociferously against the idea. |
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NorwichAspie
Blue Jay
Joined: Jun 19, 2011
Age: 36
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Lefties are the biggest threat to the western world. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14832
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| NorwichAspie wrote: | | Lefties are the biggest threat to the western world. |
Well, I'd say at least in the US Lefties and Neoliberals/Neoconservatives. They're book-ends really. |
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ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29309
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:38 am Post subject: |
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The State is the enemy. The bigger and more powerful it is, the greater is the harm it does to its subjects.
ruveynb |
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pete1061
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 13, 2011
Age: 43
Posts: 958
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | The State is the enemy. The bigger and more powerful it is, the greater is the harm it does to its subjects.
ruveynb |
The state is the weapon the elite uses against the populous.
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blauSamstag
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2011
Posts: 1880
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| ruveyn wrote: | The State is the enemy. The bigger and more powerful it is, the greater is the harm it does to its subjects.
ruveynb |
I agree completely, I think we just disagree on what the appropriate scope of minimal governance is.
The way i see it, one of the few legitimate purposes of a national government is to pool the resources of the many to provide universal access to services that we are otherwise too greedy or shortsighted to provide.
Interstate highways with no tolls are one example of appropriate socialism. I just happen to think that universal health care is too. |
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