| Should AS be an excuse for bad behavior? |
| Yes |
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18% |
[ 14 ] |
| no |
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81% |
[ 60 ] |
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| Total Votes : 74 |
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Zabriski
Blue Jay
Joined: Dec 05, 2011
Posts: 93
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 Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: Is Aspergers an excuse for bad behavior? |
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| Should kids in class be excused from insulting someone or throwing a fit because of AS syndrome? |
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The_Perfect_Storm
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 06, 2011
Age: 21
Posts: 1220
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:01 am Post subject: |
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If accidental. Though steps need to be taken to make it less likely to occur again.
Depends on many things factors though. |
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Sparx
Thingamajig
Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Age: 21
Posts: 2185
Location: N. Sanity Island
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| No, not if they're being intentionally bratty. Using AS or anything as an excuse to be a jerk is really low. |
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ValentineWiggin
Yup.
Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 4879
Location: Beneath my cat's paw
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:47 am Post subject: |
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No, it's not an excuse for bad behavior.
It's a reason for non-typical behavior.
Those who talk about Aspergers as an "excuse" are in my experience those of an ilk who don't believe in high-functioning Autism at all,
or doubt a specific person has it because they'd prefer to blame them personally for Aspergers-related things they might find annoying.
Forcing punishment on a child who "throws a fit", for instance, is irrational and cruel if one doesn't determine why he/she acted in that way.
I to this day cover my ears and rock back and forth and hum whenever there's a loud, dry raspy sound.
The fact that my auditory sensitivities are not shared by the majority hardly means I don't find them excruciating, for instance, and react as all people do in such situations.
While people and children with AS can most certainly be deliberately badly-behaved,
it's frankly absurd to expect of them many if not most NT-behaviors, and then judge them for not being able to act in that way,
because they are not NT.
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OJani
a brat
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 2320
Location: Budapest, Hungary, Europe
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| ValentineWiggin wrote: | No, it's not an excuse for bad behavior.
It's a reason for non-typical behavior.
(...)
Forcing punishment on a child who "throws a fit", for instance, is irrational and cruel if one doesn't determine why he/she acted in that way. |
This, very much. |
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SylviaLynn
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 10, 2008
Age: 56
Posts: 534
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:45 am Post subject: |
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If by "excused" we mean allowed to keep doing the behavior without any attempt to channel that behavior into more appropriate behavior then no. It's not just AS kids who are allowed to do anything their little hearts desire because mommy and daddy think their little angel should have their every whim indulged, you know. I don't think parents or teachers are doing kids (AS or NT) any good by not teaching appropriate behavior. That doesn't mean yelling at the kid, or demeaning them, and it doesn't mean ignoring their sensory needs.
My daughter whines long past the time when most kids would have stopped. It is incredibly annoying. Sure, it may be because of her AS, but she still needs to learn not to do that. She needs to learn the rules of ordinary polite behavior even if she doesn't automatically see the need for politeness.
This is the other part of this question. If a kid has a meltdown in school, should the kid be punished? No. Should the kid be helped to find other ways before a meltdown is inevitable? Yes. This definitely requires that there is another option, which doesn't always happen.
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AQ 41
Not diagnosed, but the shoe fits
10 yo dd on the spectrum |
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DiabloDave363
Phoenix
Joined: May 17, 2008
Age: 19
Posts: 647
Location: New England
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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NO! ik many ppl who r teachers or who work in public services. if they try to discipline a kid or keep them from acting up, they get in trouble if the kid is on the autism spectreme.
my friend works at a library and tried to get this girl to stop disturbing the reading that someone was doing and she said "i have autism so you cant tell me what to do!'
my friend's mom is a teacher and tried writing up this kid in school for swearing even when he was told to stop. he was excused because he has asperger's syndrome.
i get that we can be unaware of what we are doing, but when it is made clear that it is wrong, then there is no excuse. the first thing my parents said to me after they revealed that i have asperger's syndrome was to NEVER use it as an excuse! Using it as an excuse sets a bad example for these kids and shows a lack of responsibility.
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nick007
old-skewl fan-boy
Joined: May 05, 2010
Age: 30
Posts: 9741
Location: was Louisiana but moved in with my girlfreind in Vermont
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Is Aspergers an excuse for bad behavior? |
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| Zabriski wrote: | | Should kids in class be excused from insulting someone or throwing a fit because of AS syndrome? |
It's only an excuse if the kid/person is doing the behavior simply because they want to & know that they can get away with it because of their AS. Lots of times kids with AS don't comprehend that what they said was insulting before they said it or they said it without really thinking it through; like talking to themselves or tourettes so AS is the reason & NOT an excuse & it's the same if he's throwing a fit because he's having a meltdown because of stress or snsory issues or other thing
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SyphonFilter
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 08, 2011
Posts: 2072
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| No. AS is an explanation for the way you do things, but never an excuse. |
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SylviaLynn
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 10, 2008
Age: 56
Posts: 534
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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I used to work with adults with developmental disabilities, some of whom were known to physically attack their staff. I have scars from one very large woman, but she was in meltdown. That wasn't her fault. She didn't have the cognitive ability to control her actions. It's up to her staff to prevent dangerous meltdowns. (And yes, she can be very dangerous.)
Others with more cognitive ability would attack staff just because they didn't get their way. There were generally no consequences because of their disability. That, in my opinion is wrong. The individuals in question are able to know right from wrong. They knew what they were doing. They knew that hitting someone would have no consequences. I told them that if they ever hit me I would press charges, even if that meant I quit my job right then and there. Not one of them ever tried taking me on. For my part, I always treated them with respect and like the adults they were capable of being and expected the same in return. I don't think that's too much to ask. If I did something to deliberately push buttons, cause overload, or ignore warning signs then whatever happened would be my fault. If someone was in meltdown for any reason and unable to control their actions, then that's not their fault either.
So, if someone is in meltdown and unable to control their behavior, then that's one thing. I do think, though, that whenever possible there is a responsibility to try to prevent utter meltdown. Otherwise, using AS or other disability as an excuse for doing whatever the heck you please just because it will work is not ok.
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Aspie 176/200 NT 34/200 Very likely an Aspie
AQ 41
Not diagnosed, but the shoe fits
10 yo dd on the spectrum |
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League_Girl
Proud mamma
Joined: Feb 05, 2010
Posts: 13498
Location: My house
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| NO. |
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FunnyFaceKing
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Nov 20, 2010
Posts: 48
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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If I am in the middle of a fit/meltdown and cannot control myself, then irksome and vexatious behavior is going to occur. Insults, even. I have been accused of "harassment" and real crimes when this has occurred in the past, but over time I have realized over time, and through studying actual law books, that harassment must be done "with purpose to harass."
Scienter (aka/ Malicious Intent) must be determined before anyone can be convicted of any crime. If there is no malicious intent, there is no crime, no matter what the behavior. 100 percent of the time I have gone into meltdowns as described above, they were instigated by some sort of bullying or harassment by another party. Getting upset when bullied is a natural reaction. Unfortunately, When Aspies get upset, we tend to get more upset than neurotypical people, who are in the majority.
If Aspies behave the way we do because that's the way we behave, then no, we should not be punished. It is regrettable. It should be corrected; but punitive measures are not only unnecessary, they are cruel, as someone above has said before. It takes time and experience to know how to help calm an Aspie in mid-meltdown. Punitive measures for behavior that is not criminal is only going to provoke even more disorderly behavior.
Again, irksome and vexatious behavior is not harassment. Insulting someone is not necessarily harassment either.
To say "Is Asperger's an excuse for bad behavior?" without defining what is meant by "bad behavior" is just demagoguery. To say the answer "No!!!" applies in all situations may be a good thing ideologically, but when you're in the middle of a meltdown, who gives a sh** about somebody else's ideology? I certainly don't.
Anyway, this is something I have been studying for a while. I am not a lawyer. I don't even know if anybody here will think I made sense. I hope somebody does and will be able to elaborate their own thoughts about it. I will try to come back and clarify if it's not clear enough.
Good question, though. Thanks for asking it.
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Ganondox
Visceral Diety
Joined: Oct 08, 2011
Age: 16
Posts: 3599
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Define "excuse" and "bad behavior".
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anneurysm
Who needs birds when you have Lena Dunham.
Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Age: 25
Posts: 1885
Location: Barrie & Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Here's why this "AS as an excuse" thing is such an issue:
The reason that other people could see AS as an excuse is because that's the only way some people on the spectrum can explain a behaviour. But just saying "I have AS" and not saying *how* AS ties into why they do the things they do, and it does not serve as an explanation as to why they are not behaving badly on purpose.
When the behaviour is based in genuinely not knowing what the right behaviour is, a person should talk about the *aspects* of their AS that makes them come across that way so that other people have some context. And if they don't know, they should attempt to figure it out or make an intelligent guess.
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btbnnyr
Rabbit In Cat's Clothing
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 3113
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| What are the right behaviors anyway? I don't know which of my behaviors are bad behaviors. Some people may consider them bad, but others may not. |
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