Joined: Sep 22, 2008 Age: 76 Posts: 29338 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:09 am Post subject:
Tequila wrote:
Because we don't want to.
Next!
Why? Republics have several advantages of monarchy. There is no question of heredity. The people control the leadership by vote (at least in theory). The government is accountable to the people.
Britain, right now, is a partial republic. Parliament makes the laws and the executive is chose by Parliament.
Why not go all the way and do away with the royals who have had most of their intelligence bred out of them.
Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 26056 Location: Lancashire, UK
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:13 am Post subject:
ruveyn wrote:
Why? Republics have several advantages of monarchy. There is no question of heredity. The people control the leadership by vote (at least in theory). The government is accountable to the people.
Yes, the EU is showing us just how accountable republics really are.
I think, at the moment, it's a sense of national identification for many Eurosceptics. As the EU increasingly sets about demolishing all vestiges of national sovereignty, it's good to know that we still have symbols that remind me of who we are, that we're a real country. Don't knock that.
Quote:
Britain, right now, is a partial republic. Parliament makes the laws and the executive is chose by Parliament.
No, the EU makes the laws and Parliament signs them through.
Quote:
Why not go all the way and do away with the royals who have had most of their intelligence bred out of them.
I would agree with you on a lot of the minor royals. They are as thick as mince.
I like it because it's what we've always done and it's worked and we don't feel a need to change it. It works for us.
Joined: Dec 03, 2011 Age: 29 Posts: 35 Location: Japan
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:51 am Post subject:
I'm a British ex-pat, I quite enjoyed this question. From a technical point of view, the royals have no real power. It is not as though the fate of the country lies solely on the Queen's good favour, she can't just march into parliament one day, massacre everyone and declare the beginning of a new reign of terror. This is not really a good reason to keep it though.
I think we are, deep down, very sentimental about certain things. The monarchy is one of them. It's a non-threatening link to our past, that rosy (mostly false) image we all hold of "Ye Olde England" - wars with France, old traditions and customs, colonialism, just about anything that used to be considered "British". It is a past we have been indoctrinated to hate along with ourselves. Love and support of the monarchy is one of the last places we can express patriotism and pride in that sterile mournful multi-cultural society that exists now.
"For King and country!" _________________ One cannot be wise without understanding reality. If you do not understand human nature, everything in your philosophy is flawed.
Joined: Sep 22, 2008 Age: 76 Posts: 29338 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:56 am Post subject:
RikersBeard wrote:
I think we are, deep down, very sentimental about certain things. The monarchy is one of them. It's a non-threatening link to our past, that rosy (mostly false) image we all hold of "Ye Olde England" - wars with France, old traditions and customs, colonialism, just about anything that used to be considered "British". It is a past we have been indoctrinated to hate along with ourselves. Love and support of the monarchy is one of the last places we can express patriotism and pride in that sterile mournful multi-cultural society that exists now.
"For King and country!"
I can see you at Tilbury listening to Queen Bess rally the troops as they prepare to meet the Spaniards.
My Loving People!
We have been persuaded by some that are careful of our safety, to take heed how we commit our selves to armed multitudes, for fear of treachery; but I assure you I do not desire to live to distrust my faithful and loving people. Let tyrants fear. I have always so behaved myself that, under God, I have placed my chiefest strength and safeguard in the loyal hearts and good-will of my subjects; and therefore I am come amongst you, as you see, at this time, not for my recreation and disport, but being resolved, in the midst and heat of the battle, to live and die amongst you all; to lay down for my God, and for my kingdom, and my people, my honour and my blood even, in the dust.
I know I have the body but of a weak and feeble woman; but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a king of England too, and think foul scorn that Parma or Spain, or any prince of Europe, should dare to invade the borders of my realm; to which rather than any dishonour shall grow by me, I myself will take up arms, I myself will be your general, judge, and rewarder of every one of your virtues in the field.
I know already, for your forwardness you have deserved rewards and crowns; and We do assure you in the word of a prince, they shall be duly paid you. In the mean time, my lieutenant general shall be in my stead, than whom never prince commanded a more noble or worthy subject; not doubting but by your obedience to my general, by your concord in the camp, and your valour in the field, we shall shortly have a famous victory over those enemies of my God, of my kingdom, and of my people.
Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 26056 Location: Lancashire, UK
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject:
RikersBeard wrote:
I think we are, deep down, very sentimental about certain things. The monarchy is one of them. It's a non-threatening link to our past, that rosy (mostly false) image we all hold of "Ye Olde England" - wars with France, old traditions and customs, colonialism, just about anything that used to be considered "British". It is a past we have been indoctrinated to hate along with ourselves. Love and support of the monarchy is one of the last places we can express patriotism and pride in that sterile mournful multi-cultural society that exists now.
Joined: Dec 03, 2011 Age: 29 Posts: 35 Location: Japan
Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject:
*Tear wells up in eye* _________________ One cannot be wise without understanding reality. If you do not understand human nature, everything in your philosophy is flawed.
Because lots of silly English people want to keep the outdated tradition we have. The whole pantomine of it is what people love. The best we can hope for is a shortening of the civil list. I would prefer a republic though.
well the historian David Starkey says its because we were 'inoculated' by cromwell'.
during the Stuart reign Cromwell executed King Charles I and made a military rule (martial law) for 11 years this was after a very bloody and decimating civil war which tore the country apart and split families. After cromwell died they reinstated Charles II, and people were quite happy as Cromwell had banned xmas, dancing and pubs so life had been crap. The govt also made it law that military men could not stand in govt and that catholics cant be king.
a century later the US had their revolution which in turn led to the french revolution (as the silly king louis who hated the english, sent his troups to join the US and fight the british but of course they all became converts to a republic and went on to kill him doh!) and Starkey says the british would have had a revolution then also but it still had the strong 'folk' memory of cromwell and civil war and how it had been unhappy as a republic.
I think after this time then the 'feeling past' and all peoples became much less revolutionary, the bristish govt sensibly brought it more favourable conditions for the poor during the french and russian revolutions so that people here would not be unhappy enough to revolt.
The experts Ive heard speak on the present monarchy say that if charles became king it would probably become a republic but if it goes to william it will probably last another 100 years. i dont think the monarchy is powerful enough now to induce revolt, I think people would be more likely to target big business and politicians.
From a technical point of view, the royals have no real power. It is not as though the fate of the country lies solely on the Queen's good favour, she can't just march into parliament one day, massacre everyone and declare the beginning of a new reign of terror. This is not really a good reason to keep it though.
