Fnord
Enigmatic Threadkilling Metasyntactic Variable
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 Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Nexus wrote: | Science has a bad tendency to say, "lol no, you're totally wrong" when it comes to someone's personal beliefs?  |
Only when those beliefs have no factual basis in reality.
Maybe that's it ... maybe people don't like science because it's too easy to have one's fallacious beliefs exposed as delusional by someone with a scientific background. Maybe also it is easier to believe a thousand lies than one indisputable fact. |
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Fnord
Enigmatic Threadkilling Metasyntactic Variable
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Jetfox wrote: | | is this a 'why do christians hate science topic' because i am not of that group. |
Nope, sorry ... this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity because it's all about Science.
Religious discussions are in the PP&R forum. This is the CMS&T forum. |
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Nexus
Seems legit...
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| Fnord wrote: | | Nexus wrote: | | Science has a bad tendency to say, "lol no, you're totally wrong" when it comes to someone's personal beliefs? |
Only when those beliefs have no factual basis in reality. |
True, but that's kind of what I meant by that. It's also an issue of power, if science challenges the notions of religious beliefs for example, the hierarchies that lead these religious groups gradually lose that absolute control they had. So it's a more a threat to an establishment than to individuals.
Knowledge is power basically.
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Fnord
Enigmatic Threadkilling Metasyntactic Variable
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| Nexus wrote: | | Fnord wrote: | | Nexus wrote: | | Science has a bad tendency to say, "lol no, you're totally wrong" when it comes to someone's personal beliefs? |
Only when those beliefs have no factual basis in reality. |
True, but that's kind of what I meant by that. It's also an issue of power, if science challenges the notions of religious beliefs for example, the hierarchies that lead these religious groups gradually lose that absolute control they had. So it's a more a threat to an establishment than to individuals. Knowledge is power basically. |
I'll buy into that. In makes some sense to say that religious institutions thrive on maintaining scientific ignorance among their members, so as to better control them through fear of damnation, bad karma, or whatever. Further, when people learn to think for themselves, they might tend to question religious authority and point out the errors and contradictions in religious doctrine. Thus, whenever a scientific theory is proposed that contradicts religious doctrine, the religious leaders strike back by "demonizing" science in general, so as to thwart any influence that science may have on drawing away their followers.
Opinion: Science than gets demonized because religious leaders fear losing the ignorant followers that form their wealth and power base.
Feed their minds and their hearts will follow. |
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Jetfox
Android sympathizer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| Fnord wrote: | | Jetfox wrote: | | is this a 'why do christians hate science topic' because i am not of that group. |
Nope, sorry ... this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity because it's all about Science.
Religious discussions are in the PP&R forum. This is the CMS&T forum. |
ok, just checking. but yeah science does get a bad rap at times. but i think as far as the usa is concerned i think all issues arising are because of the national debt, when people wind up in a tough position they start lashing out in many ways.
i have no problem with any industries, but the motivations behind certain things. almost everything is getting abused at the moment down here.
the reason i asked is because i hear it all over the news.
i hope good days are close for us.
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ruveyn
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Why is science demonized in people's minds? |
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| Fnord wrote: |
So why is science given such a bum rap? |
Where? How? And by whom?
ruveyn |
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Why is science demonized in people's minds? |
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| ruveyn wrote: | | Fnord wrote: |
So why is science given such a bum rap? |
Where? How? And by whom?
ruveyn |
everyhwhere, by the blissfully ignorant, all the time.
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ruveyn
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Why is science demonized in people's minds? |
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| Oodain wrote: | | ruveyn wrote: | | Fnord wrote: |
So why is science given such a bum rap? |
Where? How? And by whom?
ruveyn |
everyhwhere, by the blissfully ignorant, all the time. |
You have not answered the questions. They were specific questions which ask for specific answers.
ruveyn |
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DC
Phoenix
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Largely because society has moved away from rationalism towards an approach that seems to be 'everybody can have an opinion and all opinions must be respected equally'.
Secondly science gets abused something rotten in the press constantly, if the articles on science subjects written by journalists were held to the same academic standards as scientists are when they publish a paper, things would be very different. |
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over9000
Sea Gull
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Anti-intellectualism. People take pride in being ignorant. Nuff said.
And yes, religion and science can easily coexist. Anyone, religionists or scientists, are deluding themselves when they think the two are mutually exclusive. |
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Jetfox
Android sympathizer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DC wrote: | Largely because society has moved away from rationalism towards an approach that seems to be 'everybody can have an opinion and all opinions must be respected equally'.
Secondly science gets abused something rotten in the press constantly, if the articles on science subjects written by journalists were held to the same academic standards as scientists are when they publish a paper, things would be very different. |
i don't know about you but i like to have my opinion respected, honestly i feel that move was one of the only good ones lately. i get dissrepected enough online and that's with freedom of speech, if my opinion was suddenly not tolerated i'd have more then enough reason to go on a killing spree.
my creative mind and my ideas are the only thing i got left, that are completely under my control and i have the freedom to use at my discretion.
if my opinion was taken away i couldn't like the games i like, use the computer os i want to use, i would have to like what other people liked. no thank you.
an opinion isn't just an idea to be thrown out there, it's every decision you make, every word you say. because when it comes down to it a person individual word is their opinion, because every person can choose how to live their life. so i'll keep my freedom if you don't mind.
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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freedom of opinion means anyone has the freedom to hold a bad opinion about your opinion.
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the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
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Jetfox
Android sympathizer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Oodain wrote: | | freedom of opinion means anyone has the freedom to hold a bad opinion about your opinion. |
and that's bad? it only means all people are equal, which i believe 100%. it is only man that put themselves over others. and i should simply silence everyone else to make sure my ego doesn't get bruised.
that's a bit selfish even for me. as an example your reply is null and void according to your logic, because according to you you don't have the right to speak out against my opinion.
with a law like that how would mankind even survive. that prevents nearly all kinds of freedom.
do you live in the usa? doesn't seem that way. and the op asked why certain things are demonized. well with statements that strip freedom like that, i'm not surprised. i hate anything that intrudes on the freedom i have to live my life how i please. me living a certain way is not going to hurt anyone besides me.
i'm still all for freedom of expression.
i can't believe in this day and age i would find such a comment. of course since all of that isn't law you still have the right to your opinion, and i have every right to disagree.
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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no not at all,
all its meant to say is that something such as tolerance is determined by opinion and some things are not tolerated, that is the very basis of law.
now that you have the opinion to express any sentiment is a myth, you cannot incite to murder, there are many things you actually cant say without being punished in many places,
a threat is in principle only a word but the very concept of it is quite another.
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//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
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Fnord
Enigmatic Threadkilling Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| over9000 wrote: | | Anti-intellectualism. People take pride in being ignorant. Nuff said. |
That seems to fit my experiences too.
| over9000 wrote: | | And yes, religion and science can easily coexist. Anyone, religionists or scientists, are deluding themselves when they think the two are mutually exclusive. |
Religion is based on faith, which is the belief in improvable claims - you either believe them or you don't, whether or not they are valid.
Science is based on empirical demonstrations of evidence - if you can not repeatedly demonstrate your claim, then the claim is not likely to be valid.
Sure, religion and science can coexist - and in fact they already do - but that does not mean that they have anything to do with each other. Thus, while religion and science may not be mutually exclusive, they are conceptually exclusive - religion requires unconditional belief, while science requires irrefutable proof.
Finally, just because everybody has the right to express their own opinions, that right does not automatically make their opinions valid.
Last edited by Fnord on Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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