kestrel
Phoenix
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Joined: Jan 14, 2012
Posts: 574
Location: Ohio
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 Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| XFilesGeek wrote: |
I disagree, at least in regards to English.
When it comes to English, a "grammar rule" is only true until it isn't. Some languages are better at keeping things consistent.
My knowledge of "proper English" was gleaned via lots of reading that eventually translated into an intuitive understanding. Nevertheless, I have sympathy for bad writers who can't grasp the mercurial moods of English. |
You're right; many people have misused basic grammar for so long that it's become systemic in the language. Words drift in meaning through connotative usage, and there is always more than one solution to the structure of a given sentence. I have to order things logically, and grammar makes far more sense to me when approached from a math-centric perspective. It helps me figure out how to clarify meaning by ordering words in sentences by logical relationship, which is a lot like algebra when it comes down to the technical nitty-gritty. That's the only reason I say it's equivalent to math. It isn't necessarily so, but it can be so if that's how you approach it.
It took years to get to the point where I can look at it that way, though, and, like you, it's mostly from reading intensively and extensively. I sympathize when people struggle with it, I'm just not good at how I express it, I guess. |
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XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
Posts: 1833
Location: The Oort Cloud
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| kestrel wrote: | | XFilesGeek wrote: |
I disagree, at least in regards to English.
When it comes to English, a "grammar rule" is only true until it isn't. Some languages are better at keeping things consistent.
My knowledge of "proper English" was gleaned via lots of reading that eventually translated into an intuitive understanding. Nevertheless, I have sympathy for bad writers who can't grasp the mercurial moods of English. |
You're right; many people have misused basic grammar for so long that it's become systemic in the language. Words drift in meaning through connotative usage, and there is always more than one solution to the structure of a given sentence. I have to order things logically, and grammar makes far more sense to me when approached from a math-centric perspective. It helps me figure out how to clarify meaning by ordering words in sentences by logical relationship, which is a lot like algebra when it comes down to the technical nitty-gritty. That's the only reason I say it's equivalent to math. It isn't necessarily so, but it can be so if that's how you approach it.
It took years to get to the point where I can look at it that way, though, and, like you, it's mostly from reading intensively and extensively. I sympathize when people struggle with it, I'm just not good at how I express it, I guess. |
Wow.
You've got a pretty cool take on it.
I just basically imitate what I read. 
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outofphase
Hummingbird
Joined: Apr 15, 2011
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been told that I have an accessible writing style, I am able to explain complex facts in a way that readers from a wide range of backgrounds can understand. Since my AS diagnosis I have realised that I don't write like that to help the reader. I do it so that I am confident that readers will understand it as I do and partly also to demonstrate to the reader that I understand, and believe, what I have written. |
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Moog
Pussycat
Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Age: 34
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Nope.
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kestrel
Phoenix
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Joined: Jan 14, 2012
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Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| XFilesGeek wrote: |
Wow.
You've got a pretty cool take on it.
I just basically imitate what I read. |
A lot of learning happens through imitation, and then abstraction and synthesis.  I couldn't write anything if I didn't keep reading at the same time. But like I said, I never get any kind of input on what I do write, so I may actually be much worse at it than I feel I am, and I may actually have no idea what I'm talking about. I don't assume I know what I'm doing, I just play in the sand and build sandcastles that nobody ever sees but me.
Last edited by kestrel on Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
Posts: 1833
Location: The Oort Cloud
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Not to be disagreeable, but, from what I've observed, you're a pretty decent writer (especially from what I've observed in my daily personal experience).
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XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
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Location: The Oort Cloud
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| kestrel wrote: | | XFilesGeek wrote: |
Wow.
You've got a pretty cool take on it.
I just basically imitate what I read. |
A lot of learning happens through imitation, and then abstraction and synthesis. I couldn't write anything if I didn't keep reading at the same time. But like I said, I never get any kind of input on what I do write, so I may actually be much worse at it than I feel I am, and I may actually have no idea what I'm talking about. I don't assume I know what I'm doing, I just play in the sand and build sandcastles that nobody ever sees but me. |
Well, it seems to be working pretty well for you (from what I've observed here at WP).
Hopefully, maybe one day I can put as much thought into my writing as you do in yours. Half the time, I feel my writing is only "good" because most of the folks I write for wouldn't know "good" writing" fro "bad" writing if their life depended on it.
Thanks for giving me more to ponder.
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kestrel
Phoenix
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Joined: Jan 14, 2012
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Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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You know, if I posted that last reply on any other forum I've ever visited, it would have immediately killed the thread.  I hope I didn't sound like a pedantic jerk. I have a tendency to babble on and on with this subject because I never get to talk about it. Lots of stuff coiled up in my clearly addled mind.  Thank you for the kind words, XFilesGeek. I get worried I'm not making sense to anyone but myself half the time, so it's nice to hear.
| outofphase wrote: | | I have been told that I have an accessible writing style, I am able to explain complex facts in a way that readers from a wide range of backgrounds can understand. Since my AS diagnosis I have realised that I don't write like that to help the reader. I do it so that I am confident that readers will understand it as I do and partly also to demonstrate to the reader that I understand, and believe, what I have written. |
That's a great talent to have. It's also a hard one to learn since you have to engage your writing with the reader's perspective in mind - a thing most confusing without a good intuition for it. Language is a clunky and unwieldy thing. Writing is wonderful because you can polish it, edit it, and change it until you're confident it won't be as easy to misunderstand. I have a lot of issues with this, myself, but I can hope I'm getting better with practice. I'm clueless when it comes to speaking, so writing is my lifeline to understanding. |
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Fnord
Enigmatic Threadkilling Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 18402
Location: Stendec
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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I write well enough to be my company's "Go-To Guy" for writing manuals and reports.
As a fiction writer, however, I just can't quite seem to get the hang of a good character-driven story without relying on tropes and cliches. |
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Moog
Pussycat
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Age: 34
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Location: Untied Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| XFilesGeek wrote: |
Not to be disagreeable, but, from what I've observed, you're a pretty decent writer (especially from what I've observed in my daily personal experience). |
Oh thank you, that's very kind. 
I feel my writing tends to be a bit incoherent and idiosyncratic, which might damage what I'm trying to communicate.
When I write my blog posts or longer forum posts I seem to need to edit them over and over...
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Thom_Fuleri
Phoenix
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Posts: 814
Location: Leicestershire, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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I think pretty much everyone in this thread is an excellent writer. Proof of this would be evident if you visited any other non-technical forums, where the quality of writing is abysmal (and where half the posters wouldn't know what "abysmal" means).
I'll just mention my time working in the typing pool of a police force. My job was to type up handwritten statements for court (handwritten by the officers, not the witnesses; they just signed them), and to make it difficult we had to be exact. Errors in spelling and grammar and everything. Simultaneously, my partner was teaching secondary school pupils. There is very little difference in spelling, punctuation, grammar or handwriting between most police officers and most 13-year old students. |
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Sibyl
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 11, 2009
Age: 69
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Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| kestrel wrote: | | I don't assume I know what I'm doing, I just play in the sand and build sandcastles that nobody ever sees but me. |
Who says Aspies don't do original metaphors!
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pensieve
President of Gallifrey
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Age: 27
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Have good days and bad days, both with writing and being a conversationalist.
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Dox47
Consigliere
Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 5344
Location: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| Moog wrote: | I feel my writing tends to be a bit incoherent and idiosyncratic, which might damage what I'm trying to communicate.
When I write my blog posts or longer forum posts I seem to need to edit them over and over... |
I do that too, I just use the preview function repeatedly before I post anything, and might rewrite even a simple post multiple times before finalizing the post. I find that my own coherence waxes and wanes quite dramatically day to day, sometimes the words just flow from my fingertips while other times this nonsensical stream of conscience comes out that I have to massage into readable form. Used to drive me crazy in school when they made me turn in multiple drafts, half the time they bore no relationship to each other from revision to revision, and my teachers didn't tend to like that.
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LadySera
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 02, 2011
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| I'm a fairly decent writer. I write often. Don't judge me by my posts on here as I'm often upset and/or drunk. That leads to many run on sentences. |
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