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mar00
Phoenix
Joined: May 13, 2011
Age: 24
Posts: 603
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Else Worry About Psychopathy? |
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| abacacus wrote: |
It really hit home today when I realised I was wondering why we don't perform medical experiments (ala Josef Mengele) on convicted murderers, rapists, child molesters and such. We could learn so much, like he did, and yet we refuse to.... and for the life of me I cannot understand why. |
First off Mengele didn't understand a thing and it wasn't criminals that he tortured. Wrong example.
Anyhow generally I don't understand this 'humane treatment' of criminals either. I'd impose death sentence and perhaps even torture in no time.
However that just contradicts Psychopathy idea because it seems that I care about such things. While it seems I could kill because of rage and hatred I would take no pleasure in any suffering of a good person and even would try my best to prevent it. Probably this seemingly cold dividing between good and evil might be mistaken for psychopathy. But apparently most people don't feel that way.
People value life too much. Why are these criminals taken care of while there are millions starving children?
Why is my need for cruel revenge is less just than your's idea of equality or something? I don't think we are equals not in any area of life - it's more like a way for a government to control the masses ant make them more passive. |
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CrazyCatLord
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Joined: Oct 25, 2011
Posts: 2177
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| abacacus wrote: | | VIDEODROME wrote: | | I could see maybe dissecting the cadavers but not experimenting on the living prisoners. |
Theirs crimes have stripped them of humanity and any rights they may have been entitled too in my mind... why do we feed them, keep them alive? They have destroyed other peoples lives (especially the child molesters) and yet we treat them relatively well out of some misguided idea of ethics and morality... |
There are many innocent people in prison (and in the USA, some innocent people end up on the electric chair).
Let's take child abuse, for example. It is hard to believe that people might be innocently accused of such a crime, but it happens occasionally. I've recently read about the case of an Austrian man who spent 8 years in jail for the alleged repeated sexual abuse of his stepdaughter over the course of several years. His stepdaughter has now, at age 25, finally decided to tell the truth. Her accusations were completely made up, she just wanted to get rid of him. (The German news article can be found here).
There have also been false accusations of rape (the Duke lacrosse case, for example), and countless people have been wrongly convicted of murder. It is bad enough when innocent people spend years in jail before they are proven innocent. Society can never make this up to them, but at least they are still alive and physically unharmed when the truth comes out.
That's the main reason why killing or torturing of or experimenting on prison inmates is highly unethical and can't possibly be justified. Also, someone would have to perform this torture / medical experiments, and people who would do something like this are just as unfit to live in our society as a convicted criminal. |
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hanyo
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Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 3422
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Plus the vast majority of people in prison are going to get out someday and it would be better to try to reform them rather than do things to them that will make them even worse when they get out. Being in prison doesn't always make you a bad person even if you are guilty. Sometimes people do stupid things and learn from their mistakes. When I was 18 I got arrested for a non violent felony and if I had tried to fight it and been convicted I could have gotten 1-3 years during which I probably would have been beaten up and raped and maybe killed.. Considering how horrible prison already is I don't think any extra punishment is required or maybe I've been watching too much Oz (one of my favorite tv shows ever).
I don't really have a problem with experimenting on prisoners as long as it's voluntary and the chance of fatal or really horrible side effects are small or nonexistent. They had a story line like that on Oz and one or two of the prisoners died. |
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Mindslave
Jackass of all trades
Joined: Nov 15, 2010
Age: 24
Posts: 1818
Location: Where the wild things wish they were
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| NathanealWest wrote: | | Uhh, serial killers do it for the power. Where's the power in experimenting on a condemned prisoner? |
Gee, I dunno. Where is the power in experimenting on a guy who isn't even considered to be human anyway? Every society has its 'undesirables" that we can mistreat. Now we use psychology to justify these things. At what point is a "scientific study" going to come out that clearly states that all humans are human? |
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cathylynn
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Joined: Aug 25, 2011
Posts: 2005
Location: northeastern US
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| criminals are criminals because they inherited bad genes and bad circumstances. there but for the grace of god, go i. who's to say if you or faced what they faced, we would not do the same. overwhelming scientific evedence is that we would do the same. how can you mistreat someone whose major crime is being as human as you are? lock them up to prevent further crimes, yes. mistreat them as vengeance, never. |
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bumble
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Joined: Mar 27, 2011
Posts: 1389
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: |
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This thread is somewhat disturbing.
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NathanealWest
Toucan
Joined: Jan 05, 2011
Age: 26
Posts: 258
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Mindslave wrote: | | NathanealWest wrote: | | Uhh, serial killers do it for the power. Where's the power in experimenting on a condemned prisoner? |
Gee, I dunno. Where is the power in experimenting on a guy who isn't even considered to be human anyway? Every society has its 'undesirables" that we can mistreat. Now we use psychology to justify these things. At what point is a "scientific study" going to come out that clearly states that all humans are human? |
I was suggesting this his argument that this could put serial killers onto a path where they're not destroying people is bogus. Serial killers like to trick and trap their prey. Look at Ted Bundy, he essentially killed his victims with the trust they put into him. |
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marginalized
Butterfly
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
Age: 32
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| In the US, there is a clause in the constitution about "cruel and unusual" punishments. That is why we can't experiment on prisoners. So, you are asking the wrong question. You should be asking "Why does the constitution prevent us from experimenting on prisoners?". |
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Cornflake
Rattles when shaken
Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 30260
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:44 am Post subject: |
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[Moved from General Autism Discussion to Politics, Philosophy, and Religion]
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puddingmouse
cheesecake demolisher
Joined: Apr 25, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 7028
Location: Mega City 3
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:01 am Post subject: |
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I don't worry that I've got APD or psychopathy, but I do think there is something wrong with my emotional reaction to certain things.
I can't actually think of anything wrong with abortion. I seriously have no emotions on the topic. I feel the same way about eugenic abortions of babies with birth defects - i.e. I don't feel anything. Nada. Zilch. I'm not like 'Wooo yay! Go abortion!' just 
Even if they actually developed a prenatal test for autism and decided to wipe it off the face of the planet through eugenic abortion, I'd be like . Whereas others are like, 'Noooooooo, I would never have been born!'
EDIT: and as for your example, I think it's worse than just having the death penalty, which I don't support. I still feel empathy for criminals even though they have none for me. Life imprisonment isn't ideal but it at least removes them from society. If society starts to give psychopathic criminals a taste of their own medicine, then society itself becomes psychopathic.
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Bun
Bunnymen
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
Posts: 3250
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Else Worry About Psychopathy? |
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| mar00 wrote: | | First off Mengele didn't understand a thing and it wasn't criminals that he tortured. Wrong example. |
What do you mean 'didn't understand a thing?' |
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ruveyn
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Age: 76
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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I worry a great deal about psychopathy, particularly when I am being pursued by a deranged homicidal lunatic.
ruveyn |
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abacacus
Rock 'N Roll Outlaw
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 3315
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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I know Mengele didn't experiment on criminals, I used his name more in the way of suggesting that kind of experiment.
Sure some innocent people land in prison, but they are the minority. I'm not saying experiment on EVERY criminal, but those whose crimes destroy lives. I don't understand how we can value their life after they have shown that they don't value anyone else's lives. Why keep someone who has killed 15 people alive? Why do they deserve to live more than their victims?
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donnie_darko
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Joined: Nov 27, 2009
Age: 23
Posts: 1794
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Does Anyone Else Worry About Psychopathy? |
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| abacacus wrote: | It's something I've been accused of several times, and in many ways I suppose I fit.
It really hit home today when I realised I was wondering why we don't perform medical experiments (ala Josef Mengele) on convicted murderers, rapists, child molesters and such.
We could learn so much, like he did, and yet we refuse to.... and for the life of me I cannot understand why. |
Because we're not (complete) barbarians? Criminals have rights too. |
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donnie_darko
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Age: 23
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Callista wrote: | We don't experiment on them because of how important it is to our modern society that the value we put on human life be truly universal.
That is: We have a need to be absolutely firm about stating that every single human being is equally valuable. If we don't affirm this idea, our society starts to lose its cohesiveness as gaps grow between people considered more or less valuable than others. In practice, we don't everyone equally, but when we are made aware of it, we are usually ashamed of it.
The danger of putting any human being below any other in intrinsic value--even a murderer--is that it implies to people in general that their own position as a valuable human being is not assured. They start to spend more energy on protecting themselves and their subgroup, and less on contributing to society.
In order to live in a cooperative world, we have to view each other as equals. If we don't, society we get what we've had for most of human history--a world where most people are inferior to a small group of superior people, and only the superior people get to make lasting contributions. |
This is why authoritarian societies tend to execute people and more horizontal ones do not ---- capital punishment, and torture are part of a system where all humans are NOT equal. |
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