donnie_darko
Phoenix
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Age: 23
Posts: 1794
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 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Anarchy could never work. |
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| artrat wrote: | I am against a very strong centralized government but I do believe that some government is absolutely necessary.
If anarchy would come into existance only the strong males could survive.
People that are more weak and vulnerable would be killed by the angry male mod that violently runs through the streets.
Imagine a pregnant woman in an anarchist society. She would appear weak and become a target.
In an anarchist society an aspie would not have a chance of survival. The socially strong would kill them.
Some government is necessary to control violence and human corruption.
People that consider themselves anarchist believe that all human beings are good.
I hate to tell you that you are delusional.
In an anarchist society we would see the evil of humanity within a matter of weeks.
Unless you are a physically and emotionally strong male then anarchy would be hell for you. |
I disagree. To many men, hitting a woman is worse than murder, which imo is ridiculous, I actually think in some cases hitting a woman could be understandable, like if she is stronger physically than a man and attacking him, but I think that belief would prevent the misogynistic scenario you envision without police involved. |
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artrat
Occupy Wrong Planet!
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Age: 28
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Location: The Butthole of the American Empire
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| abacacus wrote: | | The North American Indians were doing pretty good as an anarchist society. |
The north American Indians had a leader that would be similar to weak government.
As far as I know anarchists have no government or laws. Does that mean murder is okay?
The Indians were closer to a socialist society.
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donnie_darko
Phoenix
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Age: 23
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| Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| artrat wrote: | | abacacus wrote: | | The North American Indians were doing pretty good as an anarchist society. |
The north American Indians had a leader that would be similar to weak government.
As far as I know anarchists have no government or laws. Does that mean murder is okay?
The Indians were closer to a socialist society. |
By the way I do agree with you that complete anarchy wouldn't work. I actually like the idea of having tribal based government with alliances like the First Nations had. I think complete anarchy and the kind of government we have now are both equally bad in different ways. |
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peebo
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Joined: Mar 07, 2006
Posts: 1627
Location: scotland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:09 am Post subject: |
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i think that the original poster is fundamentally lacking any understanding of the differences between individualist and collectivist variants of anarchism. unfortunately this is a common problem, with most people's understanding of the term being based upon the "demonised anarchist" that is a result of biased media reporting etc. often relating to animal rights extremists and people who initiate violent confrontation at political protests and demonstrations.
anarchism does not in any way specifically imply a complete lack of organisation and co-operation. it is generally based upon egalitarian principles and values human freedom and the upholding of rights. there is a wealth of philosophical and theoretical literature focused on this area, here is a quick and easy introduction, not all of which i necessarily agree with but that at least points out some general concepts and outlines common misconceptions.
http://www.spunk.org/texts/intro/sp001634.html
it is disappointing that even in your betrayal of a complete lack of even a basic understanding of anarchism whatsoever that you would consider yourself able to decry it as being completely unworkable in practice. you obviously believe you are of better and more sound judgement than centuries of great thinkers who came before you, even in your profound lack of understanding.
| donnie_darko wrote: | | artrat wrote: | | abacacus wrote: | | The North American Indians were doing pretty good as an anarchist society. |
The north American Indians had a leader that would be similar to weak government.
As far as I know anarchists have no government or laws. Does that mean murder is okay?
The Indians were closer to a socialist society. |
By the way I do agree with you that complete anarchy wouldn't work. I actually like the idea of having tribal based government with alliances like the First Nations had. I think complete anarchy and the kind of government we have now are both equally bad in different ways. |
lack of an authoritarian state does not in any way specifically imply lack of co-operation or social organisation.
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“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”
Adam Smith
Last edited by peebo on Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Asp-Z
Clockwork Planet
Joined: Dec 07, 2009
Posts: 11016
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| OP is right. Without laws enforced by the state, us humans would default to our natural state of killing anyone who gets in our way and using our basic survival instincts to just fend for ourselves. We're very primitive creatures really. |
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Asp-Z wrote: | | OP is right. Without laws enforced by the state, us humans would default to our natural state of killing anyone who gets in our way and using our basic survival instincts to just fend for ourselves. We're very primitive creatures really. |
when did we move past them??
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the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
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snapcap
Phoenix
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Age: 31
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Anarchy would be a great way to shed our current governemnt, but SHHHH, don't let them know about the plan!
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some atheist to stick: "You're like me!" |
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peebo
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Location: scotland
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Is everyone oblivious to the notion that humanity has become increasingly ruthless and cruel since the dawning of nation states?
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“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”
Adam Smith |
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thedaywalker
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Age: 20
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| everyone is |
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donnie_darko
Phoenix
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Age: 23
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| peebo wrote: |
lack of an authoritarian state does not in any way specifically imply lack of co-operation or social organisation. |
yes, exactly. saying there are two choices: chaos or a fed-type state is a false dictonomy. |
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peebo
Phoenix
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Location: scotland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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given we appear to agree on this point, why would you then be so quick to rule out any form of anarchism as unworkable?
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“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”
Adam Smith |
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ruveyn
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Age: 76
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| peebo wrote: | | Is everyone oblivious to the notion that humanity has become increasingly ruthless and cruel since the dawning of nation states? |
According to Stephen Pinker (who supports his position with statistical data) on the whole we are less ruthless and cruel now than we were during the Dark Ages and the Middle Ages. There is still cruelty by the statistical probability of being murdered has gone down in most civilized nations.
ruveyn |
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tabby676
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Jan 04, 2012
Age: 35
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| peebo wrote: |
lack of an authoritarian state does not in any way specifically imply lack of co-operation or social organisation. |
indeed.
I'll add that actually, anarchy works every day.
For example: every time someone chooses to wait in line for something rather than cut ahead even though they would not be arrested for doing so, that is in fact effective functional anarchy. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Asp-Z wrote: | | OP is right. Without laws enforced by the state, us humans would default to our natural state of killing anyone who gets in our way and using our basic survival instincts to just fend for ourselves. We're very primitive creatures really. |
So you're telling me if the government fell apart right now........I would turn into a psychopath who kills anyone who get's in my way? I don't think so.
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Asp-Z
Clockwork Planet
Joined: Dec 07, 2009
Posts: 11016
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: | | Asp-Z wrote: | | OP is right. Without laws enforced by the state, us humans would default to our natural state of killing anyone who gets in our way and using our basic survival instincts to just fend for ourselves. We're very primitive creatures really. |
So you're telling me if the government fell apart right now........I would turn into a psychopath who kills anyone who get's in my way? I don't think so. |
No no, you'd be killed by the psychopaths who kill everyone who get in their way. |
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