Apple_in_my_Eye
I don't remember
Joined: May 08, 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 3941
Location: in my brain
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 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| As to why people transition -- the overall reality is that different people can have different reasons. For some it's a completely physical problem, but for others it actually is more of a social role type thing. I.e. Some hate their original genitals, but others don't. It can get complicated because sometimes a person who feels one way will say that those who feel differently aren't "true" transsexuals. |
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EXPECIALLY
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 21, 2011
Age: 29
Posts: 700
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Apple_in_my_Eye wrote: | | As to why people transition -- the overall reality is that different people can have different reasons. For some it's a completely physical problem, but for others it actually is more of a social role type thing. I.e. Some hate their original genitals, but others don't. It can get complicated because sometimes a person who feels one way will say that those who feel differently aren't "true" transsexuals. |
Interesting.
I don't know too many trans folk.
Do you mean the people who say that others aren't "true transsexuas" aren't trans because they experience gender dysphoria, but don't hate their bodies and don't mind living as their bio sex?
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Apple_in_my_Eye
I don't remember
Joined: May 08, 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 3941
Location: in my brain
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| EXPECIALLY wrote: | | Apple_in_my_Eye wrote: | | As to why people transition -- the overall reality is that different people can have different reasons. For some it's a completely physical problem, but for others it actually is more of a social role type thing. I.e. Some hate their original genitals, but others don't. It can get complicated because sometimes a person who feels one way will say that those who feel differently aren't "true" transsexuals. |
Interesting.
I don't know too many trans folk.
Do you mean the people who say that others aren't "true transsexuas" aren't trans because they experience gender dysphoria, but don't hate their bodies and don't mind living as their bio sex? |
Well, all those factors are separate. The only one I'd say rules anyone out for sure is having no ill feelings at all about living as their born sex. So, a person can have GID, but not have a problem with their "junk," and yet transition and have surgery. Why the surgery, then? You can't get your sex on your ID changed in some states without it -- and the point of getting your ID changed is that there are neverending examples of people getting beaten by cops because their ID didn't match how they looked. Another motivation is that if you're raped, you're less likely to be murdered afterwards if they think you're female rather than "a tranny." So, a person can want surgery, but not necessarily because of discomfort with their body. Also, some look at in the sense of, "if I want to live as a woman it's going to be MUCH harder with a penis," meaning everything from other people's expectations to how clothing fits.
Now, there are plenty of transsexuals who would argue with me on classfications. Some see body dysphoria and surgery as the ultimate proof of true transness. Some resent people who aren't full-time taking the same label as them (and I kind of agree -- cross-dressing on weekends is not as hard as coming out at work, to your family and so on). |
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CrazyCatLord
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Joined: Oct 25, 2011
Posts: 2177
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Apple_in_my_Eye wrote: | | As to why people transition -- the overall reality is that different people can have different reasons. For some it's a completely physical problem, but for others it actually is more of a social role type thing. I.e. Some hate their original genitals, but others don't. It can get complicated because sometimes a person who feels one way will say that those who feel differently aren't "true" transsexuals. |
I agree that this is a very complex issue, and terminology problems make it even more complicated. Many transsexual people have come to call themselves transgender, and the media also equates transgenderism with transsexualism. But many transgenders, such as genderqueers and bigender people, don't strongly identify as one gender or the other.
In addition, some trans women who see no need for surgery and feel marginalized by labels like pre-OP and post-OP have proudly adopted porn industry labels like shemale and tranny, which are deemed offensive by other transsexuals who call them fetishists and accuse them of giving trans women a bad name.
Add to that transgender people who call themselves transvestites (such as Eddie Izzard) and throw crossdressers into the mix, some of which refer to themselves as femboys nowadays, and the general public doesn't have the slightest clue anymore which is what and who is "trans" and which terms are politically correct. |
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sukilollipop
Emu Egg
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:53 am Post subject: transgender |
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Isn't the ability to empathise at the heart of AS?
I wonder if transgenderedness is related to the way we perceive ourselves in others: you look at someone do you see an example of yourself in someone of the same physical gender? If not perhaps you feel more familiar with someone of the opposite physical gender. I'm definitely neurotypical, I have no problems communicating with anyone and get just about any social situation often before everyone else but have always felt that communicating with men (my physical gender) has been rather cumbersome.. I've wondered if all men are AS at times
Anyway here I am thinking out loud. I'm sure there's a link of some kind and thought I'd try this site to see if anyone had interesting ideas on the matter |
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Phoenix
Joined: Oct 21, 2011
Age: 29
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: Re: transgender |
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| sukilollipop wrote: | Isn't the ability to empathise at the heart of AS?
I wonder if transgenderedness is related to the way we perceive ourselves in others: you look at someone do you see an example of yourself in someone of the same physical gender? If not perhaps you feel more familiar with someone of the opposite physical gender. I'm definitely neurotypical, I have no problems communicating with anyone and get just about any social situation often before everyone else but have always felt that communicating with men (my physical gender) has been rather cumbersome.. I've wondered if all men are AS at times
Anyway here I am thinking out loud. I'm sure there's a link of some kind and thought I'd try this site to see if anyone had interesting ideas on the matter |
IKWYM.
The empathy thing with AS is complicated, I personally, feel like I see pieces of myself in SO many people and pieces of them in me, so in that aspect I have an overactive sense of empathy.
I think some trans people do feel that way and others don't, they just feel like they sex they weren't assigned to and can't relate with their own gender. I relate to both men and women on a deeper level, but I guess I would have to say that I still relate to men more often on a practical level, and that it still feels like pretending with women (I'm gay but not trans).
In either case, there's a huge Aspie overlap so I do think you have something with that theory, I've though about it before.
Some people with AS or with AS traits don't have this kind of empathy though, it's extremely complex. They may have a different kind of empathy. I feel like I have a really deep sense of empathy that isn't needed for every day life but NOT the practical kind of empathy that you can apply to everyday situations, maybe just because I'm usually in my own world.
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Last edited by EXPECIALLY on Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Magdalena
Sea Gull
Joined: Feb 07, 2012
Posts: 205
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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theaspiemusician, does it bother you that transgender is classified as a disorder?
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You are very likely an Aspie
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heavenlyabyss
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 530
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm not transgender so I'm not sure if I should be posting here, but isn't defining transgender as a disability harmful to the transgender person? What if a person embraces their own transgender-ness? Would you consider that a bad thing?
Personally, I don't give a damn, and I don't mean that in a bad way. People can do their own thing as long as they are not harming me or anyone else.
I just don't get it. Some things are defined as disorders that shouldn't be, and psychology is notorious for this. |
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visagrunt
Polymath
Joined: Oct 17, 2009
Age: 45
Posts: 5754
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is very important to understand how "clinical significance" comes into many diagnoses--particular diagnoses related to mental health conditions.
The fact of gender dysphoria is not enough, in and of itself, to disagnose a disorder. A patient must also present clinically significant symptoms. It might be entirely possible that a person's physiological sex and gender identity might be different without giving rise to disruptions to daily living.
But if gender dysphoria does present disruptions to daily living, it is properly described as a disorder--because this is the basis on which physicians are then empowered to act to help a patient. From a medical perspective, "disorder" is not perjorative, rather it is descriptive--it doesn't mean that something is "wrong," but rather it means that there is a condition that can be treated.
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Aaam
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Personally I'm convinced# that autism, intersex, transgender, etc are the result of unusual development: Some uncommon, unusual event occurred so that our bodies developed the way they did.
Intersex doesn't need explained, it obvious. It's confusing, it can cause transgender feelings, it's painful when it makes you infertile. etc.
Autism changes the way we process information, express ourselves, etc. ... it's being different. It's being weird. It's not understanding the "easy" things while you do understanding the "difficult". It's being alone, not because you wanted to be alone but because you just can't deal with people right now.
Trans* is definitely not about sex or sexual attraction. It is about identity: physical, personal, relational, social, cultural. It's the conflict between what your mind/soul expects your body to be and how your body is. It's growing up learning that you are never allowed to be yourself. It's always being told that your natural conscience, your preferences, urges, desires, and needs are wrong and bad. It's always feeling guilty because of your natural feelings. It's because you know you can never live up to the expectations of others. It's always feeling guilty for having learned to live a lie, having learned to pretend too well. It's the loneliness that comes with having to hide your true self. It's being forced to ignore or violate your own conscience every day of your life. It's the slight discomfort that you feel every time you assigned gender is referenced. It's when you are filling out a form that asks for family relations you use the term "parent" and "child", not the suggested: "mother", "father", "son", "daughter". It are the many little pinpricks you get all the day, every day, your whole life long.
When the stress and pain caused by all the above become too great that if disrupts you life then it becomes a development disorder, at which point you need to ask for professional help.
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TheHouseholdCat
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 01, 2012
Posts: 667
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say it is a mental disorder. It's a natural...
I can understand why someone would identify as transgender. Although there is a difference between being transgendered and transsexual. You know... that you want to adapt a certain role does not necessarily mean that you want to be the other sex.
I can totally understand why a man would like to identify as a woman and vice versa. Because society forces us into this binary and some people just cannot do that. Some people feel more comfortable in the other gender/sex.
I think "disorder" is a really difficult and dangerous term. Because it means "not normal" and I don't think something like "normal" exists. There's just tendencies, but they are no absolute rules.
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mntn13
Phoenix
Joined: Jun 07, 2011
Posts: 1006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Personally I'm convinced# that autism, intersex, transgender, etc are the result of unusual development: Some uncommon, unusual event occurred so that our bodies developed the way they did.
^ elucidate? |
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sukilollipop
Emu Egg
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: transgender |
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| EXPECIALLY wrote: | | sukilollipop wrote: | Isn't the ability to empathise at the heart of AS?
I wonder if transgenderedness is related to the way we perceive ourselves in others: you look at someone do you see an example of yourself in someone of the same physical gender? If not perhaps you feel more familiar with someone of the opposite physical gender. I'm definitely neurotypical, I have no problems communicating with anyone and get just about any social situation often before everyone else but have always felt that communicating with men (my physical gender) has been rather cumbersome.. I've wondered if all men are AS at times
Anyway here I am thinking out loud. I'm sure there's a link of some kind and thought I'd try this site to see if anyone had interesting ideas on the matter |
IKWYM.
The empathy thing with AS is complicated, I personally, feel like I see pieces of myself in SO many people and pieces of them in me, so in that aspect I have an overactive sense of empathy.
I think some trans people do feel that way and others don't, they just feel like they sex they weren't assigned to and can't relate with their own gender. I relate to both men and women on a deeper level, but I guess I would have to say that I still relate to men more often on a practical level, and that it still feels like pretending with women (I'm gay but not trans).
In either case, there's a huge Aspie overlap so I do think you have something with that theory, I've though about it before.
Some people with AS or with AS traits don't have this kind of empathy though, it's extremely complex. They may have a different kind of empathy. I feel like I have a really deep sense of empathy that isn't needed for every day life but NOT the practical kind of empathy that you can apply to everyday situations, maybe just because I'm usually in my own world. |
That's interesting. i identify with women for example I am always aware of fashion as it develops and i think this is much the same way fashon works: people being tuned into what's being worn at any time. I do not relate to men's fashion, it passes me by. I wonder if these aspects of seeing oneself in others can be gender specific. ie it's possible to be a little AS vis a vis one gender but completely empathetic with another gender |
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ScientistOfSound
Hope I die before I get old
Joined: May 22, 2011
Age: 18
Posts: 1014
Location: In an evil testing facility
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:53 am Post subject: |
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??
I don't feel the need to conform gender roles and I feel like I'm both male and female however I am comfortable with my body and don't intend to change it. It's never caused me any distress or problem, so why is it considered a "disorder?" |
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Pileo
Deinonychus
Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 305
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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If you mean transsexualism...
Well, the source of the problem is inside the brain, it interferes with people lives (particularly in youth) and it's something that generally requires treatment. Therefore, I believe it's a mental disorder. I'm a transman, FYI.
It kind of offends me people have such a negative attitude towards mental disorders. Having a mental disorder doesn't make you insane, it doesn't make it any less of a problem, it's perfectly natural (many mental disorders are genetic and you don't get more natural than that) and it doesn't make it "just inside your head". There's nothing wrong with having a mental disorder. Every time someone says transsexualism isn't a mental disorder, I want to slap them because it demonstrates a clear misunderstanding of terms and of mental disorders.
Plus, how is not calling transsexualism a disorder supposed to help convince insurance companies to cover treatment? |
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