iceveela
Velociraptor
Joined: Aug 17, 2011
Posts: 438
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 Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:35 am Post subject: Tying shoelaces |
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Is this something that kids with autism "just can't get" or is it the fault of bad parenting and a child who does not care how?
My little brother has high functioning autism, and 'as a result' is not able to tie his shoelaces. my parents have not tried to tech him how in years, and he has not tied them himself yet.
I honestly do not believe this is a result of his autism, but a result of not teaching well.
My brother tried to teach me how to ride a bike once, I fell off a few times and said "I can't do this!" and ran back in the house. He never again tried to teach me how to ride a bike. As a result, I do not know how to ride a bike.
The same analogy goes with my little brother and his shoelaces.
is it "he does not understand it", or is it "I am not going to try harder so that he can learn?"
I just despise it when my parents go "His autism is causing it, there is nothing we can do about it, it's just who he is as a person." They just refuse to push my little brother to try things because they can just blame it on his autism.
what do you all think?
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Mummy_of_Peanut
Countess de Noir
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
Age: 40
Posts: 3477
Location: Bonnie Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:50 am Post subject: |
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It's hard to say without knowing the individual. I taught myself to tie my own shoelaces at 3yrs, before my parents even thought it was time to start teaching me. I was determined to do it, I just stuck with it and remember my parents' faces when I showed them what I could do.
But, my daughter's a totally different person. She has never had any determination to learn this. These days, very few kids' shoes have laces, so there isn't the pressing need either. She seldom takes advice, she has to do it by herself and learn from her own mistakes, which makes it very difficult for us to teach her skills like this. So, she tries it on her own, finds she can't do it first time, won't listen to our advice and then gives up, usually in a terrible mood. Her Daddy and I have the desire for her to learn and all the patience in the world to teach her, but she is a strong willed independent little girl. Some day it will happen (I hope).
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noname_ever
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Posts: 500
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| I had a terrible time with the bow and didn't learn to fully tie my shoes until age 7. |
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OliveOilMom
Queen of cans and jars
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: |
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I had trouble learning. I remember not being able to physically move my fingers in the way that I wanted them to go, and not remembering how to do it, and when I did remember how I couldn't remember which direction to go in. I finally learned though. One of my kids had a lot of trouble with it but he eventually learned (he's NT)
You do bring up a good point about some parents not pushing and putting things off on the AS/ASD. I was overprotected enough as a child because of bad allergies and general sickliness so if they had known about my AS back then, I probably wouldn't be able to do anything today because I wouldn't have been taught, expected to, or allowed to even try. My teenage rebellion was about learning to do all the things my mother was afraid for me to do, said I couldn't do, etc just to prove that I could do them, I was like everybody else, and I was a normal kid. I was pushed about some things and made to do or not do some things, and for that I am grateful. Being made to do or not do things helped me learn some amount of self control, which I wouldn't have if they had said "Oh, that's her autism, she can't help it". I'm not saying that every kid can learn the way I did, but many can and do.
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MusicIsLife2Me
Deinonychus
Joined: Jan 19, 2012
Posts: 380
Location: In a musical wonderland ♬ ♭ ♫ ♩
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
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I don't remember my parents ever teaching me this.
However, I did learn in school at the age of 8. I had trouble moving my fingers in the correct way. I also found it extremely confusing when my teacher would say things like " put the ears through the bunny hole. " I was like "but this isn't a bunny, they are shoe laces!."
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Marcia
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 15, 2008
Posts: 1479
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:33 am Post subject: |
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My son can't tie laces at the age of 10. It's not the big deal it used to be when children all wore lace-up shoes. It was only when he got football boots which do lace up that I realised that he couldn't do it. I have showed him, but he lacks the co-ordination, dexterity and muscle tone in his hands to do it.
He can't put socks on properly either, which is more of an issue, I suppose. |
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169Kitty
Sea Gull
Joined: Dec 25, 2011
Posts: 214
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: |
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I also didn't get the whole bunny ear thing when trying to learn how to tie my shoelaces. I don't remember thinking anything like "but these aren't bunny ears" but I remember being confused and just not getting it. I remember the movements feeling awkward and finding my own way of tying my shoes that included lots of knots and twisting. I loved velcro shoes! Now I find tying my shoes or other things with ties annoying and only do so if needed for practical reasons. I usually tie my shoes in a way that I can sleep my feet in and out. My current pair of general purpose shoes don't have ties, they have a cord with a cord lock.
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safffron
Snowy Owl
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 166
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:41 am Post subject: |
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I was the last kid in kindergarten who learned to tie her own sneakers. I remember watching intently to understand the process and then one day it seemed like I mysteriously got it. The teacher seemed surprised. One possible problem is that I was always watching an adult tie my sneakers as he or she was facing me. So I was always seeing it happen upside down.
My eye-hand coordination seemed challenged at that point. I also remember having problems working with scissors.
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OliveOilMom
Queen of cans and jars
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Posts: 6783
Location: Living in Faulkner's nightmare
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: |
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In ROTC in college we had to learn knots. Lots of people caught right on, and some had been in Scouts and already knew most of them. I had a lot of trouble with them. Remembering how to tie them, confusing parts of the process with other knots. remembering which way, then when I did remember which way actually getting my hands to move that way.
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Frances
What if Jessie's girl was Stacy's mom and her number was 867-5309? |
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naturalplastic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2010
Posts: 4632
Location: mid atlantic coast usa
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Wow.
You touched on a sore spot in my growing up!
The anwer is bad parenting.
You, or your parents should teach him.
If necessary - have him tie his shoes - then immeadiately untie his shoe- and have him do it again several times in a military style drill so he gets it down like breathing.
If your parents refuse to do that they should be publicly flogged!
Actually- i couldnt really say. It depends on the autistic child.
Have aspergers but the learning-to-tie-your-shoe part of my life was decades before even shrinks in America even heard of asperger's.
When I was like 8 years old my parents took two seconds out of their lives to teach me to tie my shoes - then gave up- and taught me some bullshit abreviated way of shoe tieing. A way that comes undone after five minutes.
That day caused me decades of misery.
Misery compounded by THEM blaming me for thier incompetence in teaching me shoe tying. They screwed me and then got angry at me because they screwed me.
I dunno
Im just venting.
What Im saying might be relevent to you or not.
But - it takes two seconds to teach an nt kid to tie their shoes- it might take four or six seconds to teach a kid on the spectrum- so be prepared to take those extra few seconds before you give up.
Thats my point. |
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ValentineWiggin
Yup.
Joined: May 16, 2011
Posts: 4879
Location: Beneath my cat's paw
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I didn't learn til I was ten.
Eventually, I just got too embarrassed by not knowing how, and figured it out.
And now I rarely wear shoes with laces, so it's a useless skill. 
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ToughDiamond
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Age: 60
Posts: 4751
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:09 am Post subject: |
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I had some trouble learning to tie my shoelaces. I think caustic Mum failed to teach me, but then Dad took the job over.....he was very kind and patient, and I think that tipped the balance for me. The method was:
Tie an ordinary knot.
Make a "bunny rabbit's ear" from each of the 2 ends
Tie the "ears" in a knot.
Pull the ears hard to tighten.
Actually Dad just said "tie a knot, bunny rabbit's ear, bunny rabbit's ear, cross them, under, over, and pull." But he was demonstrating it at the same time, so his words didn't need to be a complete description. I think he then got me to have a go, and repeated the descriptions of the steps as I worked. Then if I'd failed, he'd demonstrate again, and get me to try again. He showed no trace of impatience or exasperation.
I was surprised to see a kid at school tying his laces in a different way. Some years later I switched to that way (must have learned how just by watching the method once or twice), and (rather strangely) I went back to the old way a couple of years ago - I have no idea why I did that.......bored with doing a thing the same old way, I guess. Very un-Aspie though. 
Summary:
The "demonstrate / describe / copy / repeat till mastered" method worked for me, but the emotional attitude of the facilitator was probably crucial. |
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izzeme
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 05, 2011
Age: 26
Posts: 1086
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:10 am Post subject: |
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autism is a factor in tying shoelaces, since people with autism usually dont have very good fine motor skills.
that being said, it is still possible to learn how to do this (and many other fine motor skills) to a sufficient level, i know i did.
i still cant draw, write or tie my shoes perfectly, i usually have to redo my shoes 2 or 3 times a day, but it is good enough to use on a daily basis |
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antimuda
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Dec 27, 2011
Age: 27
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
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I am 26 and I am constantly being reminded by the world that was shoes are untied. This is not to say that the knot has failed but rather that the bow is no longer a bow. I have yet to actually trip over my shoe laces nor have I ever been able to understand how this was physically possible as it would require walking with both feet on the ground. If a shoe steps on its own lace, nothing happens besides the lace eventually wearing out.
The truth of the matter that is after years of trying and failing, watching countless youtube videos on the topic, I can reproduce the knot but it doesn't remain a bow after ~ 2 hours.
One of the common characteristics of the spectrum disorders is difficulty with fine motor skills. This would be a trivial yet common manifestation |
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sapphireblue
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Feb 09, 2012
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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I am more interested in.. if it is an issue what is a good method for teaching how to tie shoes? The only thing I can figure is just practicing over and over but the frustration is too much. Lots of tears and tantrums.
I have not really pressed the issue with my children. I try to buy slip-ons or velcro closures. As they get older it is hard to find shoes without laces. It's so funny because my 10 year old wanted to get Vans. I thought "cool, surfer/skater shoes". Sorry, memories of growing up in the 80s in San Diego. I thought it would be great because of the slip-on styles that were, and now again, so popular but he picked lace up style. When they came home from the store I had to ask why they didn't get slip-on style as he is yet unable to tie his shoes. What can you do?
We have tried the bunny ears thing which I do not understand at all. So I should say my husband and teachers, not me. I try to just show them. Telling them to make two loops and tie them in a knot.
They all have issues with it though. Their handwriting is horrible. Stiff and in some cases outright illegible.
I do like the Y-Ties, which the PE teacher is currently using as a fundraiser. They're only $2 a pair and lots of fun. Although you can buy elsewhere. I think we are going to have to buy a few pair now that we have that new pair of shoes. |
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