|
hanyo
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 3456
|
 Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:53 am Post subject: |
 |
|
I've had friends tell me to lie in job interviews before and I don't think I could bring myself to do it.
Some questions confuse me. In the one job interview I ever had in my life I was asked if I was afraid of being cut. It was for a job in a fast food place. If I had answered yes it might make me seem too timid to do the job. If I had said no it might make me seem like some reckless psycho with no regard for my personal safety. I can't remember what I said but I wasn't hired.
Questions like "where do you see yourself in 5 years" would be impossible for me to answer honestly because I can't even look that far ahead. I either see things as being exactly the same as they are now or my being dead.
If I were asked about my lack of work history I can't even imagine what to say other than the truth and not make up some bs about home businesses or caring for sick relatives like people tell me to do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
trappedinhell
Phoenix
Joined: May 15, 2011
Age: 44
Posts: 570
Location: Scotland
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fnord wrote: | | he should conform to the norm and stop whining about it. Well put. |
If the norm is sociopathy, then you are telling him to be a sociopath.
The system is sociopathic. We pay taxes that kill thousands (or millions) of foreigners in defense of "our interests". Taxes themselves guarantee unemployment and corruption, causing plenty of misery at home (I agree with Adam Smith: taxing work is hugely inefficient, we should charge rent on land instead). Our system relies on limiting economic migration, which is the modern equibvalent of sending slaves back to their masters, ensuring that millions die of starvation while billions live in misery. Do people with jobs fight this? They cannot: their jobs depend on conforming. They do what they can to maximize profits, pay a few percent of that money or a few hours per week on "good causes" to ease their conscience, then go home to watch TV, chat on Facebook, go on holidays, and spend money on their homes. While millions die thanks to the system they support.
I agree with the OP. The system is sociopathic and I do not want to conform to it.
Last edited by trappedinhell on Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
hanyo
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 3456
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fnord wrote: | | he should conform to the norm and stop whining about it. Well put. |
I've never been able to figure out how to conform or act normal. I can only be myself. |
|
| Back to top |
|
LongLostSelf
Raven
Joined: Jan 31, 2012
Age: 38
Posts: 107
Location: Newcastle UK
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was terrible at interviews for years and years but eventually I learned how to act and sell myself a little and I have managed to land myself plenty jobs.
However that's when the real problems start because I can't keep jobs because I can't keep the act up socialize with my co-workers. I try but deep down I have no interest in other people.
I can have a conversation about work and exchange useful information all day but when it comes to relating and chit chat I just can't do it.
People often see me as thick or slow or I pretend I'm a bit deaf because they have to tell me instructions 2 and 3 times
I Start noticing people's attitudes change towards me I enjoy work and I'm good at most jobs I have tried but I just never fit in.
Often being good at your job just isn't good enough you have to build up somekind working relationship with the people around you which i struggle with and I'm often politely let go by my employer, ignored , pushed out or I end up walking out or one day just never going back.
So For me the interview is just the tip of the iceberg |
|
| Back to top |
|
Joe90
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 8258
Location: Great Britain
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Where I live, people despise sociopaths. They prefer honesty.
When I was volunteering at the charity shop, I found 6 pounds and fifty pence in one of the donation bags, and I went to keep it, but somebody else there saw and said, ''ohh, look - there's some money. Leave it on the table and I will put it in the donation box when I go downstairs.''
Also at the charity shop when volunteers found something they liked, they always made sure they paid for it, when really, they could easily just take it home without anybody knowing, if it's just a little book or something. Even if something's going to be thrown away, they still used to keep it aside and ask the manager how much money they wanted for it, even if it was a few pence change. I once took a couple of books and some pens from there before without telling anyone (not in the shop, just upstairs when we were sorting the donations).
Who's the honest one? Me (an Aspie) or the other volunteers (the NTs)?
_________________
Real gender: Female
From: East UK
Age: 23 |
|
| Back to top |
|
Fnord
Enigmatic Threadkilling Metasyntactic Variable
Joined: May 07, 2008
Posts: 17899
Location: Stendec
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Why do NTs favor sociopathy over honesty?!? |
|
|
| Chronos wrote: | | I've always been asked how long I intend to be there. |
How odd ... I've always been able to deduce that from a candidate's work history, even for recent graduates. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Jtuk
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 22, 2012
Posts: 732
Location: Wales, UK
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hanyo wrote: | I've had friends tell me to lie in job interviews before and I don't think I could bring myself to do it.
Some questions confuse me. In the one job interview I ever had in my life I was asked if I was afraid of being cut. It was for a job in a fast food place. |
You shouldn't outright lie in a job interview, if you get caught that'll get you fired, regardless of your job performance.
I do interview a lot of people, as part of my job. I tend to make sure we include straightforward technical questions and some form of practical test. We will weed people out based on the tech and practical, then use interview performance as the tie breaker. For the interview questions we tend to focus on competencied. Our interviews are over within an hour and a half. We always also phone all candidates and let them know our decision on the same day. We also rarely interview more than 6 candidates and never go for second interviews.
We do use a scoring system, that is linked to the essentials in the job spec and description. So that should give anyone a big clue for the interview, the interview is asking the questions :
can you do the work?
Will you work hard?
Will you fit in?
Will you stay?
Are you reliable?
You might not have customer services experience, but you can still talk about your qualities that are relevant: efficiency, listening, patience and good manners are 80% of good customer services.
Jason |
|
| Back to top |
|
NicoleG
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Age: 36
Posts: 661
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Why do NTs favor sociopathy over honesty?!? |
|
|
| so_subtly_strange wrote: | I was just thinking wouldn't it be satisfying to turn it on their heads, run NTs through interviews by autists? Only their actual words would count, and the functional relevance of their responses. The ability to BS and 'be engaging' would count for nothing.
Not meaning to be bitter, it would just be interesting, and it is frustrating that interviews rarely have anything to do with ability to do the job you are being interviewed for. I think it would make far more sense to put more weight on some sort of actual test to prove you could do a certain kind of work. NOT a personality test. Obviously your not going to know everything before training but its something that would evolve. Initially the results of a test would be interpreted intuitively, but as a business has been around for a while, it could overlay, how did people who ended up being good employees preform on the original test? and the test could be constantly revised to be more useful for indicating what they are looking for |
Regarding ability to do the job - That information usually comes from the resume where you list previous work history and skills.
Regarding testing for ability - I have been given tests prior to a couple of interviews, one even included an alphabetical filing test, a typing (with a typewriter!) test, and a test to re-create documents using certain (Windows Office) programs. Another place I applied for had a written test for weeding out people that are likely to lie, cheat, or steal.
"Initially the results of a test would be interpreted intuitively" - What do you mean by this? What would be the point of testing if the results are being interpreted intuitively instead of objectively? |
|
| Back to top |
|
XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
Posts: 1793
Location: The Oort Cloud
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
I get more annoyed by employers who want 25+ "personal references."
As if people won't lie their butts off for their friends. 
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced." |
|
| Back to top |
|
hanyo
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 01, 2011
Posts: 3456
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| XFilesGeek wrote: | I get more annoyed by employers who want 25+ "personal references."
As if people won't lie their butts off for their friends. |
25+? I couldn't come up with that many people even if relatives count for that.
I also have no education besides a ged, no work history, or anything else to put on a job application. |
|
| Back to top |
|
fraac
Tufted Titmouse
![]()
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
Posts: 1865
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Crazy people prefer to live in what I call the game world. They prefer a comforting lie to the truth. It's because they have weak characters. Sociopathy is the act of living fulltime in the game world because actual sociopaths are biologically unable to join the real world. NTs can't easily tell the difference between the real and game worlds to begin with, they need to be led. |
|
| Back to top |
|
XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
Posts: 1793
Location: The Oort Cloud
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've stopped caring about "fudging" the truth.
Employers lie all the friggen' time. No reason I should trouble myself with the truth, especially when the person sitting across the desk from me has the IQ of a carrot.
"We're sorry, but you're just not fitting in here. We're going to have to let you go."
Translation: "You're an ugly woman with a buzz cut and we'd rather hire someone we don't suspect of being homosexual."
Soooo..........I'm all about pleasing the customers and teamwork. Teamwork rocks!!! 
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced." |
|
| Back to top |
|
DarthMaul
Pileated woodpecker
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 193
|
| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sociopath: a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behaviour and a lack of conscience
Then how to the people do their jobs, if they're sociopaths? 'Cause I'm supposed to be looking for a job, and... I gotta step my game up if I want to get it, lol. And @fraac, I was just thinking the same thing a bit earlier.... Except I was thinking, "People need to just face the facts, and stop hiding in their dream world." And to be honest, leading them isn't going to help. It's like the Matrix. There's people we want to bring out, but you just can't because they're too deep in. |
|
| Back to top |
|
GumbyLives
Phoenix
Joined: May 31, 2010
Age: 52
Posts: 768
Location: LV-426
|
| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sometimes I was just fine in interviews, and that's usually when I could appear not to give a crap if they hired me or not. Not like "screw you", but like a friendly "oh well, if you don't hire me someone else will". I got one job because the interviewer liked my signature on my application (he thought it showed that I had brains), and I got another job because the interviewer asked me how I would handle a certain task and I was apparently the only one who said, "I don't know. Someone would have to teach me that" (and it turned out no one could know how to do that, and the interviewer was looking to weed out bullshiaters).
So much of interviewing is total b.s. - employers making judgments about you based on their own biases while pretending to be unbiased, and lying or just not knowing about their own company atmosphere and workings to really tell you what you're walking into anyway. One job I found out later I got hired for because the interviewer thought I could do the job, but also thought I was gay and she was trying to be mindful of diversity and fairness in the workplace - but the work group she hired me into was very homophobic. No surprise about the outcome there. After being bullied out of my last good (meaning high paying) job four years ago, I've been unable to get back into anything high-end that I can stay in, due to my lack of social sophistication. Right now I'm working one step up from total grunt-worker, and that's only because I knew someone who knew the interviewer and she recommended me based on past work with her. They think I'm great here, but I would never have gotten hired based on my interview alone, as I came across as an idiot.
In my experience, job interviewing is a crap shoot that you just have to show up and look your best for, knowing that if they actually hire you it could be a great thing - or it could be a nightmare, too, depending on all the stuff you'll only find out about the company and people who work there after they hire you.
_________________
I would rather have my liver pecked out by a giant crow than spend a day at the mall. But I'd pay money to see a giant crow eat a mall.
Your Aspie score: 155 of 200 * Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 49 of 200 * You are very likely an Aspie |
|
| Back to top |
|
MrPickles
Raven
Joined: Apr 16, 2012
Posts: 104
Location: The Frozen North
|
| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fnord wrote: | | RushKing wrote: | | You need sociopathic traits to get a job these days. An internship would be a test drive, a job interview is a pointless social game. Job interviews are only good at determining if someone is good at lying and acting. They should only be used to hire salesman. |
Wrong on all counts.
You need technical and social skills to get a job.
An internship may be a longer test drive than an interview, but there is no alternative for an interview, as it demonstrate how good a candidate is at being sociable and how well they can think and speak extemporaneously. Honesty is always the best policy, but you don't have to tell them everything - especially your beliefs concerning hiring and the interview process. Besides, if I remember your previous posts on this topic correctly, you're not really looking for an internship (which pays nothing), but an apprenticeship (which provides training) in an engineering field - and that is just not going to happen.
Yes, candidates must be salespeople who are capable of selling themselves.
There is no way that anyone is going to hire you without an interview, so I strongly suggest that you work on your interview skills, and stop complaining about how the hiring process is not being done your way. |
Wrong on - Wrong on all counts ---
I have had several jobs that I got after a 5 minute phone interview or less (some without interview). They were often the better jobs I have had. Some firms (still very few at this time) are moving to using interactive test to aid in hiring.
Some of those jobs were for people who are now my best references.
I have witnessed firms that use primarily the interview to find new employees hire the wrong person time after time. Often when interviewed for a job I find that it is by a person who has no experience in the filed. They have idea of skill sets or how to discover if the person they are interviewing has enough of the skill set to be useful.
The interview is great at weeding out the odd balls - and misfits. Yet among these very people are some of the most valuable future employees available - this is where you will find many hard working, very competent and dedicated people. I know this because I have been on both sides of the hiring process. I can say that some of my best hires were done without interviewing. When I was in the boat business I hired some of the best local mechanics two of which I did not interview at all and another I am sure that this person would not have made it past a standard interviewer.
Add to this the fact that Colleges teach courses in interviewing (from both sides) the chances are good that if a firm depends on the interview to hire they get someone that was really great at the interview and who knows if they have the talent or skill to get the job done.
All this being said - you need to practice interviewing a lot!!!! - There are a lot of companies out there that believed the rhetoric hook line and sinker and because they are NT run (unwilling to break with the crowd) will not change any time soon.
_________________
Found in an old and dusty book --- Roger's Axiom: If it is worth doing it is worth over doing!
Found on http://jacobbarnett.org/ -- If you are suffering from Autism - you're doing it wrong! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
