iamnotaparakeet
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 Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject: When Atheists Are Angry at God |
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When Atheists Are Angry at God
JOE CARTER
Link: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0376.htm
| Quote: | I’ve been mad at just about anything you can imagine. Except unicorns. I’ve never been angry at unicorns.
I've shaken my fist in anger at stalled cars, storm clouds, and incompetent meterologists. I've even, on one terrible day that included a dead alternator, a blaring blaring tornado-warning siren, and a horrifically wrong weather forecast, cursed all three at once. I've fumed at furniture, cussed at crossing guards, and held a grudge against Gun Barrel City, Texas. I've been mad at just about anything you can imagine. Except unicorns. I've never been angry at unicorns.
It's unlikely you've ever been angry at unicorns either. We can become incensed by objects and creatures both animate and inanimate. We can even, in a limited sense, be bothered by the fanciful characters in books and dreams. But creatures like unicorns that don't exist – that we truly believe not to exist – tend not to raise our ire. We certainly don't blame the one-horned creatures for our problems.
The one social group that takes exception to this rule is atheists. They claim to believe that God does not exist and yet, according to empirical studies, tend to be the people most angry at him.
A new set of studies in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology finds that atheists and agnostics report anger toward God either in the past or anger focused on a hypothetical image of what they imagine God must be like. Julie Exline, a psychologist at Case Western Reserve University and the lead author of this recent study, has examined other data on this subject with identical results. Exline explains that her interest was first piqued when an early study of anger toward God revealed a counterintuitive finding: Those who reported no belief in God reported more grudges toward him than believers.
At first glance, this finding seemed to reflect an error. How could people be angry with God if they did not believe in God? Reanalyses of a second dataset revealed similar patterns: Those who endorsed their religious beliefs as "atheist/agnostic" or "none/unsure" reported more anger toward God than those who reported a religious affiliation.
Exline notes that the findings raised questions of whether anger might actually affect belief in God's existence, an idea consistent with social science's previous clinical findings on "emotional atheism."
Studies in traumatic events suggest a possible link between suffering, anger toward God, and doubts about God's existence. According to Cook and Wimberly (1983), 33% of parents who suffered the death of a child reported doubts about God in the first year of bereavement. In another study, 90% of mothers who had given birth to a profoundly retarded child voiced doubts about the existence of God (Childs, 1985). Our survey research with undergraduates has focused directly on the association between anger at God and self-reported drops in belief (Exline et al., 2004). In the wake of a negative life event, anger toward God predicted decreased belief in God's existence.
The most striking finding was that when Exline looked only at subjects who reported a drop in religious belief, their faith was least likely to recover if anger toward God was the cause of their loss of belief. In other words, anger toward God may not only lead people to atheism but give them a reason to cling to their disbelief.
I've argued elsewhere that, according to the Christian tradition, atheism is a form of self-imposed intellectual dysfunction, a lack of epistemic virtue, or – to borrow a term from my Catholic friends – a case of vincible ignorance.
Vincible ignorance is intentional suppression of knowledge that is within an individual's control and for which he is responsible before God. In Romans, St. Paul is clear that atheism is a case of vincible ignorance: "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Acknowledging the existence of God is just the beginning – we must also recognize several of his divine attributes. Atheists who deny this reality are, as St. Paul said, without excuse. They are vincibly ignorant.
Recognizing this fact, however, does not mean that the cause of this self-imposed dysfunction has been understood. While I firmly believe all forms of atheism are instances of both vincible ignorance and an obstinacy of will, I've sometimes mistakenly assumed it to be a purely intellectual failing – a matter of the head, not the heart. Only recently have I begun to appreciate how much the emotional response to pain and suffering can push a person to an atheistic worldview.
Most pastors and priests would find my epiphany to be both obvious and overdue. But I suspect I'm not the only amateur apologist who has been blinded to this truth. As a general rule, those of us engaged in Christian apologists tend to prefer the philosophical to the pastoral, the crisp structure of logical argument to the messiness of human emotion. We often favor the quick-witted response that dismisses the problem of evil rather than patient empathy, which consoles atheists that we too are perplexed by suffering.
Many atheists do, of course, proceed to their denial of God based solely on rational justifications. That is why evidentialist and philosophical approaches to apologetics will always be necessary. But I'm beginning to suspect that emotional atheism is far more common than many realize. We need a new apologetic approach that takes into account that the ordinary pain and sufferings of life leads more people away from God than a library full of anti-theist books. Focusing solely on the irate sputterings of the imperfectly intellectual New Atheists may blind us to the anger and suffering that is adding new nonbelievers to their ranks. |
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pandabear
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Are "believers" ever angry at God? |
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Declension
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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This idea seems plausible to me. (Although not the Christian bits.)
It seems clear that most people naturally believe in God. So if one of these people decides to become an atheist, they will constantly have to be "reminding" themselves that they don't believe in God, even though their mind wants them to. They want to defend the intellectual position of atheism, but their intuition (rightly or wrongly) tells them that God exists, so they end up in a confused state where they are battling their own intuitions, which can look like "anger at God".
It reminds me of the debate about free will. Many people have convincing intellectual reasons to not believe in free will. But does anyone actually not believe that they have free will? I don't mean when they are reading philosophy. I mean, does anyone really believe that they don't have free will while buying milk at the dairy? I don't think so.
| Quote: | | In the wake of a negative life event, anger toward God predicted decreased belief in God's existence. |
This is a separate issue. I think that this has a more obvious explanation. This "anger toward God" is simply a re-evaluation of the likelihood of a God who will prevent bad things happening to you in the wake of a negative life event. If this is the only sort of God you have ever heard of, then a negative life event will make you less likely to believe in him. |
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Yupa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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How is this possible?
If you didn't believe in something, you wouldn't be angry at it. I've seen this talking point entirely too many times and it makes absolutely zero sense.
I find one major problem with Christian sources (like the website in the OP) is that their discussion of atheism is based on the assumption that everyone starts out believing in God and that atheists are people who consciously rebel against God. I have never seen these kinds of sources address the fact that many atheists have never believed in God in the first place. In fact, I would venture to say that atheists could just as easily be neutral or dispassionate towards the idea of "God." |
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Declension wrote: | This idea seems plausible to me. (Although not the Christian bits.)
It seems clear that most people naturally believe in God. So if one of these people decides to become an atheist, they will constantly have to be "reminding" themselves that they don't believe in God, even though their mind wants them to. They want to defend the intellectual position of atheism, but their intuition (rightly or wrongly) tells them that God exists, so they end up in a confused state where they are battling their own intuitions, which can look like "anger at God".
It reminds me of the debate about free will. Many people have convincing intellectual reasons to not believe in free will. But does anyone actually not believe that they have free will? I don't mean when they are reading philosophy. I mean, does anyone really believe that they don't have free will while buying milk at the dairy? I don't think so.
| Quote: | | In the wake of a negative life event, anger toward God predicted decreased belief in God's existence. |
This is a separate issue. I think that this has a more obvious explanation. This "anger toward God" is simply a re-evaluation of the likelihood of a God who will prevent bad things happening to you in the wake of a negative life event. If this is the only sort of God you have ever heard of, then a negative life event will make you less likely to believe in him. |
i for one never did believe in a god and i see no reason to want to,
i actively denied the tradition of confirmation at age 13 for one.
i think Yupa hit the nail on the head when he said the major problem with christian sources is the assumption that humans are "wired" to believe in god.
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the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
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Declension
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Oodain wrote: | | the major problem with christian sources is the assumption that humans are "wired" to believe in god. |
But, I mean... aren't we? Surely we are! How else can you account for the appeal of religions?
Certainly not all people are wired to believe in God. And in fact, people on the autism spectrum often seem to be "missing" that aspect. Something about not seeing purpose.
I think that the major problem with Christian sources is the assumption that humans are wired to believe in their God. Actually, any God will do. Adherents of all of the world religions all seem to have plugged the God-shaped hole just as well as each other. |
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Vigilans
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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I can't be angry at something that doesn't exist. Instead I can take issue with people who promote it, or by the concept itself
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Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do |
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aspi-rant
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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utter nonsensical crap.
mind boggling brainwashed religious propaganda.
nothing new. move on. 
now i am dysfunctional because i never believed in any of the thousands upon thousands man made gods???  |
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Fnord
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| You can not be angry at something that you believe does not exist, but you can be angry because something that you wish does exist does not. |
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Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
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Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Declension wrote: | | Oodain wrote: | | the major problem with christian sources is the assumption that humans are "wired" to believe in god. |
But, I mean... aren't we? Surely we are! How else can you account for the appeal of religions?
Certainly not all people are wired to believe in God. And in fact, people on the autism spectrum often seem to be "missing" that aspect. Something about not seeing purpose.
I think that the major problem with Christian sources is the assumption that humans are wired to believe in their God. Actually, any God will do. Adherents of all of the world religions all seem to have plugged the God-shaped hole just as well as each other. |
what rational argument do you have that we do?
i think most "faith" comes from a desire to have a neat all encompassing explanation for the why and how we are here question.
that and upbringing, nothing tells me that children inherently need to believe gods, the only children i have met that even soeak of god are the ones with highly religious parents.
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//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
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Mummy_of_Peanut
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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This is illogical, Captain. How can you be angry with something that you don't even believe exists? Even if were all hard-wired to follow some sort of religious system, that doesn't necessarily mean we have any built-in need to believe in a God or Gods anyway. It makes sense that Atheists might be angry with other people or the concept of religion, not the actual deity.
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Thom_Fuleri
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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The clue is in the link to the article - this is another blast of Christian apologetics, with the tired old argument that atheists believe in God because they are angry with him. It's a strawman argument.
Atheists are not angry with God. Atheists are angry with religion, one of the oldest scams still in existence. Even if God did exist, he would be appalled and disgusted at some of the stuff religion does in his name. |
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Vigilans
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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People are not "wired" to believe in God/s any more than they are "wired" to not believe in it/them
I love how this idiotic author considers atheism "vincible ignorance" and a "dysfunction". What a f***ing as*hole
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do |
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ruveyn
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Thom_Fuleri wrote: | The clue is in the link to the article - this is another blast of Christian apologetics, with the tired old argument that atheists believe in God because they are angry with him. It's a strawman argument.
Atheists are not angry with God. Atheists are angry with religion, one of the oldest scams still in existence. Even if God did exist, he would be appalled and disgusted at some of the stuff religion does in his name. |
It is every difficult to be irritated by an entity whose existence is either disbelieved or denied. The whole notion makes no sense.
ruveyn |
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artrat
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Many atheists seem angry at the idea of God. They once believed in God but have horrible memories of religion.
It is possible to not believe in something but still be angry with it.
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“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" ~George Orwell
"I belive in God, only I spell it Nature."
~ Frank Llyod Wright
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