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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26045
Location: Lancashire, UK
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 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| peebo wrote: | | yes that is a way of looking at it, but i think the point of view that the largest and most successful supermarket chain in the country is using sick and disabled people as unpaid slave labour is infinitely worse, no? |
Oh, absolutely. Both need a bloody good airing. |
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26045
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| smudge wrote: | | It got rid of Thatcher. That's a good thing. |
No, it didn't.
The widespread refusal to pay it and resultant public hostility, i.e. the non-violent civil disobedience I referred to, along with her increasingly anti-EEC views (which put her at odds with her own Cabinet and much of her own parliamentary party and the senior Tory leadership) were the main reasons for Margaret Thatcher being removed from office. Not unwashed urchins rioting. |
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aussiebloke
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Age: 37
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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We've had this for nearly 2 decades set up by our Howard "liberal" government, so called work for the dole.
Though only used in the non for profit sector, which I'm not against though used in the private sector, unbelievable, shocking in fact. 
_________________
Theirs a subset of America, adult males who are forgoing ambition ,sex , money ,love ,adventure to sit in a darkened rooms mastering video games - Suicide Bob |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14833
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| S***, I can see why the UK has fewer fans of capitalism. For anything like that to ever pass in the US it would need a binding roadmap to employment (via the employer) and even then I don't think they'd throw any random body in like throwing an engineer on a garbage truck. Even then, we'd never want to tamper with business to the point where we're forcing the government on them as an arbitrary temp agency. |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14833
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| peebo wrote: | | Tequila wrote: | | peebo wrote: | | the disabled and sick and those unable to work on the grounds of ill-health will now simply be used as slave labour for tesco. |
Another way of looking at it is that the UK taxpayer is now subsidising the largest and most successful supermarket chain in the country. |
yes that is a way of looking at it, but i think the point of view that the largest and most successful supermarket chain in the country is using sick and disabled people as unpaid slave labour is infinitely worse, no? |
Great example of what 'the government picking winners' can look like. Hopefully the US can empty out its pail of czars by early 2013. |
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26045
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | S***, I can see why the UK has fewer fans of capitalism. |
It's not free-market capitalism. This scheme is a crudely-designed operation that encourages exploitation of vulnerable people. You won't find many real capitalists cheering this on. |
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ruveyn
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Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29317
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: |
Great example of what 'the government picking winners' can look like. Hopefully the US can empty out its pail of czars by early 2013. |
The Czar business is very lucrative. Don't bet on emptying out the pail.
ruveyn |
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techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14833
Location: A beautiful vector among many
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Tequila wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | S***, I can see why the UK has fewer fans of capitalism. |
It's not free-market capitalism. This scheme is a crudely-designed operation that encourages exploitation of vulnerable people. You won't find many real capitalists cheering this on. |
It absolutely isn't but it lends the impression of 'this is how capitalism works' and in quite a nasty way. |
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ruveyn
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Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29317
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | Tequila wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | S***, I can see why the UK has fewer fans of capitalism. |
It's not free-market capitalism. This scheme is a crudely-designed operation that encourages exploitation of vulnerable people. You won't find many real capitalists cheering this on. |
It absolutely isn't but it lends the impression of 'this is how capitalism works' and in quite a nasty way. |
Unfortunately Crony Capitalism is confused with the real thing. Real capitalism is rather rare these days, the days of the Mixed Economy.
ruveyn |
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VMSmith
a figment of my own imagination
Joined: Apr 18, 2011
Age: 21
Posts: 2676
Location: the old country
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| psych wrote: | westminster tesco this morning
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i can't believe this happened a week ago and i'm just hearing about it now. there were protests at maccas too & they got it to close down! macdonalds never closes! plus the fact that it is macdonalds makes it sweeter. they have exploitation down to an art. shining temple of capitalism. hiring young workers so they can pay them crap even by youth wage standards and now not even bothering to do that. apparently there was another protest at maccas yesterday.
http://righttowork.org.uk/2012/02/emergency-demonstration-stop-workfare-slave-labour-grayling-must-go/
http://socialistworker.org.uk/art.php?id=27652
and apparently its been happening a lot:
http://socialistworker.org.uk/art.php?id=27649
http://socialistworker.org.uk/art.php?id=27636
i'd wondered why sainsburys would back down and apparently so has tescos and a bunch of other places.
and there is a campaign website with a list of planned action and news articles and stuff:
http://righttowork.org.uk/
this is what happens when you're out of the loop for a whole week. and yeah a riot would be good. interesting to see how they seem to proceed social change of some sort.
aussiebloke wrote:
| Quote: | | We've had this for nearly 2 decades set up by our Howard "liberal" government, so called work for the dole. |
 actually my comrades were talking about this yesterday. trust howard to come up with this. that guy was really expert at screwing people over. s'funny how work for the dole was found to be ineffective at helping people land jobs. apparently it was made so that the jobs you got did not displace existing jobs so you didnt learn skills you could use in the private sector plus it reduced the time you had to look for actual work. and sometimes the employer specifies that they will only take workers with paid work experience. also if there are no jobs available where are you supposed get a job? big companies are currently cutting workers from the ranks and eliminating their positions from the job market, not because they cant afford to pay them or because theyre going broke but just because they want to make an extra buck. qantas is a good example. alan joyce's only comforting words were that no jobs would be going offshore. 500 redundant workers breathed a sigh of relief when he said that im sure. or uni of sydney which made a massive profit last year but are still cutting 300 jobs(164 are already gone) and are deciding who to cut based on retrospective criteria(that the bosses dont fit by the way.) so are kmart, coles and woolies. self service check out machines. disgusting. somebody should be paid to do that work. |
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peebo
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
Posts: 1627
Location: scotland
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:14 am Post subject: |
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good to see that tesco have apparently backed down.
see here for a guardian article noting that jobseekers are being forced to clean private houses in return for their benefits. this article also mentions poundland having pulled out of the compulsory aspect of the scheme, and also notes a scandal with a4e forcing jobseekers to work for free in their own offices.
i'm currently very interested in the implications for esa claimants. somehow, ironically, the arrangements seem far more demanding of esa claimants than those on jsa.
the saga continues...
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“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”
Adam Smith |
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aussiebloke
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 15, 2009
Age: 37
Posts: 3878
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Little Britain back in the 70 or 80's where in the change room with Fritz and Jean Paul and where that they where so well endowed , they shriveled and tiny  thought what are we going to do about it?
They went to Mexico and bought lots of Viagra on cheap credit , suddenly in the 90's they where feeling rather large and inflated so large in fact they had become cool Britannia * , Britannia now jetseting around Europe , drinking heaps, poping lots of party drugs, flirting with the locals ,end up falling in love with them in fact and ended up buying a holiday home their ) great for working on the great barrier reef tan.
The times where great thinking it would never end , so great in fact little emperor Blaire got on his podium and told the world they where more (now late 90's) more endowed than France which is ironic if I where to believe the Conservatives France is meant to be a communist hell hole who's people are oppressed by high taxes and soul destroying red tape)
So what happened ?? the Viagra started to run out as did the cheap credit any credit in fact not helped with the devaluation of the Atlantic peso. Suddenly little Britain had become deflated and shrivelled and they came to the realisation they where not so large to start. off with .
Having said all this it's a bit rich of Fritz to say they don't want to want to save "g" the runt of the litter when Fritz profited so handsomely from "g's" spendthrift ways. I wonder what the world economy would look like if everyone tried to run surplus's/revenue neutral it wouldn't be a pretty picture ether would it (I imagine???)
*Who coined that line some marketing men who where paid 100.000's of pounds by a government bureaucracy I imagine, I guess it helped Jamie Oliver and his ilk , right place, right person right time .
_________________
Theirs a subset of America, adult males who are forgoing ambition ,sex , money ,love ,adventure to sit in a darkened rooms mastering video games - Suicide Bob
Last edited by aussiebloke on Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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aussiebloke
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 15, 2009
Age: 37
Posts: 3878
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| VMSmith wrote: | | psych wrote: | westminster tesco this morning
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i can't believe this happened a week ago and i'm just hearing about it now. there were protests at maccas too & they got it to close down! macdonalds never closes! plus the fact that it is macdonalds makes it sweeter. they have exploitation down to an art. shining temple of capitalism. hiring young workers so they can pay them crap even by youth wage standards and now not even bothering to do that. apparently there was another protest at maccas yesterday.
http://righttowork.org.uk/2012/02/emergency-demonstration-stop-workfare-slave-labour-grayling-must-go/
http://socialistworker.org.uk/art.php?id=27652
and apparently its been happening a lot:
http://socialistworker.org.uk/art.php?id=27649
http://socialistworker.org.uk/art.php?id=27636
i'd wondered why sainsburys would back down and apparently so has tescos and a bunch of other places.
and there is a campaign website with a list of planned action and news articles and stuff:
http://righttowork.org.uk/
this is what happens when you're out of the loop for a whole week. and yeah a riot would be good. interesting to see how they seem to proceed social change of some sort.
aussiebloke wrote:
| Quote: | | We've had this for nearly 2 decades set up by our Howard "liberal" government, so called work for the dole. |
actually my comrades were talking about this yesterday. trust howard to come up with this. that guy was really expert at screwing people over. s'funny how work for the dole was found to be ineffective at helping people land jobs. apparently it was made so that the jobs you got did not displace existing jobs so you didnt learn skills you could use in the private sector plus it reduced the time you had to look for actual work. and sometimes the employer specifies that they will only take workers with paid work experience. also if there are no jobs available where are you supposed get a job? big companies are currently cutting workers from the ranks and eliminating their positions from the job market, not because they cant afford to pay them or because theyre going broke but just because they want to make an extra buck. qantas is a good example. alan joyce's only comforting words were that no jobs would be going offshore. 500 redundant workers breathed a sigh of relief when he said that im sure. or uni of sydney which made a massive profit last year but are still cutting 300 jobs(164 are already gone) and are deciding who to cut based on retrospective criteria(that the bosses dont fit by the way.) so are kmart, coles and woolies. self service check out machines. disgusting. somebody should be paid to do that work. |
Well he knew how screw the "useless eaters" of this world, thats for sure and the low end of town to .
He was very spendthrift with the bogan bucks  which made me furious, fast train affordable education etc etc Nah lets just double the homeowners grant (millionaires are free to apply).
Did you know Amanda Vanstone and a couple of her comrades (can't recall which ones) probably most of them said the green lepricon should get an Australian of the year award and it wasn't even said ironically. Screwing over workers, inconveniencing people , and costing the economy millions is meant to be a good thing?
Howard and his Merry men where particular scary in the Patrick days, I felt sickened in those days , Keating as always had a great metaphor on how he felt when Coward was ousted that night  something along the lines of being those workers who get the toxic crap housed down from them at the end of the work day etc.
"dessicated coconut " 
_________________
Theirs a subset of America, adult males who are forgoing ambition ,sex , money ,love ,adventure to sit in a darkened rooms mastering video games - Suicide Bob |
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26045
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| peebo wrote: | good to see that tesco have apparently backed down.
see here for a guardian article noting that jobseekers are being forced to clean private houses in return for their benefits. this article also mentions poundland having pulled out of the compulsory aspect of the scheme, and also notes a scandal with a4e forcing jobseekers to work for free in their own offices. |
To be honest, the entire edifice is very smelly and I think there's a lot of corruption going on. |
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Adam-Anti-Um
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 10, 2008
Age: 29
Posts: 707
Location: West Sussex, UK
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