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webcam
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 09, 2012
Posts: 427
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 Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: Neurodiversity is not a 'nice word for autism supremacy' |
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| dalurker wrote: | | Quote: |
spoken like hitler. you express your opinions too well militant pro-cure.
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Don't make a spectacle of yourself with such a nonsense remark. But being militant pro-cure is a positive thing. |
I disagree dalurker, your opinions are too extreme... I think you're angry at ignorance. Perhaps they've made you feel bad with the expectations they've formed in society. I've been there, I know, it's tough, but your life doesn't stop being a war story until you say "who would I be without the negative self image that's been cast upon me," and start trying to live it. |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Neurodiversity is not a 'nice word for autism supremacy' |
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| webcam wrote: | | As I see it, all we struggle through today is what we must fix for our children. We don't need to fix our children. Though giving them gifts of talent will certainly be beneficial to them. Have you ever considered that talents like our can be taught? I assure you they can be learned, so they can indeed be taught which leads me think that perhaps culture will yield more talent than gene therapy. |
Learning requires a neurological system capable of learning the information and concepts that make up skills. The ability and speed with which one's brain can do that varies tremendously. It's just a fact, sadly. Some have to try much harder and longer than others. Knowledge/skills aren't really intangible.
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Can you name some things you feel are inconsiderate? |
I meant they were inconsiderate of the difficulties of others. Inconsiderate that others don't have their talents and functioning. |
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aspie48
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Posts: 1286
Location: up s**t creek with a fan as a paddle
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
Also how do you imagine they will cure autism, by rearranging autistic peoples brains trying to get it right? because that is literally what it would consist of u'd either have to try and weed out Autism via eugenics......or screw around with brains of autistic people trying to make them work like a neurotypical brain. Who wants the cure? |
I think it would involve some kind of "rearrangement". But as far as I know, it may involve remedies that increase connectivity within the brain where it could be lacking. Such as reversing the difficulties in interactions between neurons, and the difficulties in long distance communication between distant areas of the brain. It may include forms of gene therapy, which are getting very sophisticated. This would have to be intricately planned and understood before it's attempted, of course. And the goal isn't really to make a brain work like a "neurotypical" one. It's just to increase functioning needed for basic skills and forms of learning. |
this is all fairly vague. I'll have to see it when the time comes. and when the time comes i hope to be dead not to see it.
_________________
I've been through windows, doors, tv's, and chairs
But I never let go, And I pulled out most of their hair
I've mellowed a lot since then
So it takes two seconds
For me to knock the hell right out of you-Hank Williams |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| aspie48 wrote: | | this is all fairly vague. I'll have to see it when the time comes. and when the time comes i hope to be dead not to see it. |
Yeah, there's a lot to be refined and learned of it. It may require a long time. I could die with some happiness if I knew that it will eventually succeed after I'm gone. |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| webcam wrote: |
Still, I wouldn't want anyone fixing my kids with gene therapy. Let them (kids) decide what they want when they are able to think for themselves and think outside of the information that is handed to them. Obviously giving them only info from Autism Speaks and other genocidal organizations won't help. The really do need to be able to think for themselves and be kept from developing the standard media driven opinions or opinions simply of rebellion to the media driven opinions. Either would be just as bad. |
Who would choose to remain impaired? Seriously. Tell me. Anyway, even children would choose not to be impaired. Even a child has the sense to do basic things that are beneficial for them. Just an experience of their existence in nature would be all the info. they would need. What does Autism Speaks have to do with genocide? Ironic, that you say that you want children to decide, but you say that you don't want yours to be fixed. What of the opinion of your own children? |
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aspie48
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Posts: 1286
Location: up s**t creek with a fan as a paddle
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | webcam wrote: |
Still, I wouldn't want anyone fixing my kids with gene therapy. Let them (kids) decide what they want when they are able to think for themselves and think outside of the information that is handed to them. Obviously giving them only info from Autism Speaks and other genocidal organizations won't help. The really do need to be able to think for themselves and be kept from developing the standard media driven opinions or opinions simply of rebellion to the media driven opinions. Either would be just as bad. |
Who would choose to remain impaired? Seriously. Tell me. Anyway, even children would choose not to be impaired. Even a child has the sense to do basic things that are beneficial for them. Just an experience of their existence in nature would be all the info. they would need. What does Autism Speaks have to do with genocide? Ironic, that you say that you want children to decide, but you say that you don't want yours to be fixed. What of the opinion of your own children? |
i believe he said to wait so they could decide. over 20,000 people support neurodiversity. thats a lot so don't belittle us.
_________________
I've been through windows, doors, tv's, and chairs
But I never let go, And I pulled out most of their hair
I've mellowed a lot since then
So it takes two seconds
For me to knock the hell right out of you-Hank Williams |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Neurodiversity is not a 'nice word for autism supremacy' |
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| dalurker wrote: | | Quote: |
The brain is almost as unknown to humans as the universe is.....I mean it is very possible there isn't a way to change that, not to mention maybe it turns out its more the environment that contributes most to impairment. Maybe it is something genetic they could try to change obviously with some risks......but at the moment no one knows for sure. Another issue is no two brains look the same so how are they going to figure out exactly what it is that might cause some with autism to have less impairment. I mean I've taken psychology and the only thing they knew for certain is there is so much we don't even understand about how human brains work.
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I think in the future, there may even be ways to reverse problems caused by environmental factors also. There already is evidence surfacing regarding biological differences associated with differences in severity of autism. There's still a lot to be researched, but they're getting closer. And the technology to gain that information and make it therapeutic, only will increase further. I've read a lot of stuff on the brain's workings, and the detail with which it's understood now by scientists, seems to be getting very sharp. |
Oh there already are ways such as improve the environment.........rather then manipulating an individuals brain chemistry and wiring trying to get them to function in an unhealthy, negative environment.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| aspie48 wrote: | | over 20,000 people support neurodiversity. thats a lot so don't belittle us. |
Where do you get that figure from? And that's not a lot as a percentage of the millions on the spectrum. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
Also how do you imagine they will cure autism, by rearranging autistic peoples brains trying to get it right? because that is literally what it would consist of u'd either have to try and weed out Autism via eugenics......or screw around with brains of autistic people trying to make them work like a neurotypical brain. Who wants the cure? |
I think it would involve some kind of "rearrangement". But as far as I know, it may involve remedies that increase connectivity within the brain where it could be lacking. Such as reversing the difficulties in interactions between neurons, and the difficulties in long distance communication between distant areas of the brain. It may include forms of gene therapy, which are getting very sophisticated. This would have to be intricately planned and understood before it's attempted, of course. And the goal isn't really to make a brain work like a "neurotypical" one. It's just to increase functioning needed for basic skills and forms of learning. |
Kinda like the song Brain Damage 're-arrange me till I'm sane.'? But hey if someone with autism would like a cure I won't stand in their way but I am sure there are quite a few people with autism who prefer their brains are not 're-arranged'.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Neurodiversity is not a 'nice word for autism supremacy' |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
Oh there already are ways such as improve the environment.........rather then manipulating an individuals brain chemistry and wiring trying to get them to function in an unhealthy, negative environment. |
I wonder what aspects of the environment would be involved. |
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aspie48
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Posts: 1286
Location: up s**t creek with a fan as a paddle
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: | | aspie48 wrote: | | over 20,000 people support neurodiversity. thats a lot so don't belittle us. |
Where do you get that figure from? And that's not a lot as a percentage of the millions on the spectrum. |
thats the number of members of the largest neurodiversity site, aspies for freedom.
_________________
I've been through windows, doors, tv's, and chairs
But I never let go, And I pulled out most of their hair
I've mellowed a lot since then
So it takes two seconds
For me to knock the hell right out of you-Hank Williams |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Neurodiversity is not a 'nice word for autism supremacy' |
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| dalurker wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
Oh there already are ways such as improve the environment.........rather then manipulating an individuals brain chemistry and wiring trying to get them to function in an unhealthy, negative environment. |
I wonder what aspects of the environment would be involved. |
Well what things in your environment make things more difficult for you? It kinda varies.
But say a kid with autism goes to a school where he/she is treated as an outcast and gets bullied all the time.....at home they have all kinds of family problems going on and no real way to leave the situation. Well maybe some of those factors need changing and not so much the individual with autism.
It's been proven people with mental disorders/illnesses/conditions function better in more supportive, healthy, positive environments....hell people in general function better that way. I mean take public school for instance they want everyone to learn the exact same things the exact same way making the environment very unpleasant for kids who learn a different way or maybe have a specific area of interest. Well education could be made more individualized but it's easier just to try and mold the people who don't fit the mold so that they do...regardless of what negative effects that might have on the individual.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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dalurker
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 14, 2008
Posts: 514
Location: NY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Neurodiversity is not a 'nice word for autism supremacy' |
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| Sweetleaf wrote: |
But say a kid with autism goes to a school where he/she is treated as an outcast and gets bullied all the time.....at home they have all kinds of family problems going on and no real way to leave the situation. Well maybe some of those factors need changing and not so much the individual with autism. |
But those kinds of things don't cause the actual impairments. I heard they could have some influence during very early ages when the brain is very malleable. |
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Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14828
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: Neurodiversity is not a 'nice word for autism supremacy' |
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| dalurker wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: |
But say a kid with autism goes to a school where he/she is treated as an outcast and gets bullied all the time.....at home they have all kinds of family problems going on and no real way to leave the situation. Well maybe some of those factors need changing and not so much the individual with autism. |
But those kinds of things don't cause the actual impairments. I heard they could have some influence during very early ages when the brain is very malleable. |
Really? personal experience and psychology tell me differently. For one if the things I described are severe enough they can cause PTSD especially in individuals prone to anxiety disorders. Other then that though it can certainly contribute to all sorts of impairments such as the impairments caused by depression which can certainly be related to problems like that. Bullying and constant family problems don't cause the impairments autism causes but they can certainly contribute to the co-morbid disorders and impairments caused by them.
So basically negative social and environmental factors don't cause autism, but they can certainly make things worse.
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It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
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Tuttle
Not a bird, a turtle.
Joined: Mar 27, 2006
Age: 24
Posts: 2592
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| dalurker wrote: |
Who would choose to remain impaired? |
Me.
Also, I've heard others on the spectrum explicitly say the same thing to me, and I'm not talking about mild "only a bit socially awkward" situations. |
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