CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87360
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
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 Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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I agree about the part about modern cities being like zoos. There are many different breeds of people living in the urban jungle that I live in. My apartment is my refuge from all that madness. People aren't meant to live in such environments.
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The darling, unworldly Mick Avory with hands like shovels, who wouldn't dare choose to hurt a soul: I'm the cuddly, adorable Kink. Sweet Peas: http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j37/Cocknee/Kinks/Sweet%20Pea%20Smileys/ Other: http://www.mybrowsercash.com/ |
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CockneyRebel
Mick Avory, Sensitive brown-eyed Sweet Pea
Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 87360
Location: In a quiet and peaceful garden, where gentle Mick Avory-like Sweet Peas grow.
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Mithos
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 685
Location: Ponyville, Equestria.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| CockneyRebel wrote: | | ADD and ADHD are also very real disorders. My sister's husband had ADHD and he has a very hard time coping sometimes. |
I'm 21 and I still have it. I got treated like a child from my co-workers at the jobs I had in the past. |
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Mdyar
emuegg
Joined: May 29, 2009
Posts: 2514
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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It shows as something on imaging scans. White matter and grey matter differences vs. controls. And frontal-striatum is disturbed in (ADHD)hyperactive. Pre-frontal cortex for ADD.
For the inattentive side, life without medicine or the like, is the same as treading water 24/7---> mental exhaustion.
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pensieve
President of Gallifrey
Joined: Nov 19, 2008
Age: 27
Posts: 7452
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Is Asperger's real?
Clue: both questions have the same answer.
I don't think it is poorly defined but people can relate their most subtlest of symptoms to it.
In my book disorder = significant level of impairment.
My ADHD is a real impairment. It takes me hours to get up in the morning. It makes me unwilling to do tasks that take a long time to do. It makes me shop and speak impulsively. It makes me jump from one topic to the other. It makes it hard for me to even watch TV, pay attention to someone speaking or even watch my favourite band live. It makes me obsess about a topic one hour and the next be over it. It makes it hard to read or comprehend what I'm reading. It makes doing math nearly impossible because of all the required steps. I actually do much better when I'm medicated. I even taught myself trigonometry, year 11 and 12 math and year 12 physics the first months I was taking it. I've only ever been able to learn music when on my medication too. I'm only able to write my long complex novel chapters when I'm on it and to stick with it.
I'm easily frustrated when not on my medication and really struggle to motivate myself to do things. I barely talk to people at all. When I'm going through my hyper cycle I say things that offend people without realising it. When I'm feeling inattentive I know I will offend people but don't feel bothered enough to change the way I say things to sound less offensive.
I barely spend 2 minutes on deciding what to wear, don't even brush my hair and really hate when I have to iron. I've got constant thought changing every couple of minutes, some negative, others just wild ideas.
I expend all my focus, motivation and energy all in one go when off medication too.
I really wish people would look more into ADHD (I'm talking more to the person that told you) than just making harsh comments about a disorder I've struggled with for my whole life, and I've only been recently diagnosed. I was dealing with it undiagnosed in college. I could barely comprehend my work without reading it over and over again, or takes notes or even remember to do my homework. And then those times I did do it I would forget to bring it in. Forgetfulness is one of the most irritating symptoms of ADHD for me. I've almost lost expensive cameras, I've locked myself out of my house and forgot my mobile phone as well. It even gets in the way with cooking because I hate cooking meals I've never had before and meltdown over it because I speed as quickly as I can through it and make mistakes and get angry at myself. And then people get angry at you when you forget to do something for them or they tell you what you said was pretty rude.
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dr01dguy
Toucan
Joined: Nov 16, 2011
Posts: 295
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How many disorders really are disorders given that our lifestyles have become so unnatural and would they still be disorders if we still lived the primitive lifestyles we are genetically adapted to life? |
Ya know, personally, I'd rather be shamelessly exploited by the likes of Shire, take my meds, and function well in modern society, than die toothless and decrepit in a mud hut at the ripe old age of 40 from some infection or injury that, in modern society, would mean having a crappy weekend and missing a day or two of work. 
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Your Aspie score: 170 of 200 · Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 34 of 200 · You are very likely an Aspie [ AQ=41, EQ=11, SQ=45, SQ-R=77; FQ=38 ] |
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EXPECIALLY
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 21, 2011
Age: 29
Posts: 700
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Depends on how you define what is and what is not a disorder.
I mean, the actual disorders are just something psychiatrists have put forth as descriptions of a set of traits.
Are the traits real? Yes.
Does it mean all of the mental illnesses are disorders? Yes, in the sense that it means that people who are diagnosed with them have enough traits in common to fit the label they share.
In a more abstract sense, they're just variations of human behavior and what's abnormal is called such because it differs from the average.
I don't think someone with an ADHD diagnosis should get too caught up in the label, people of our type have always existed, but it useful to know that there's a set of traits that are shared by other people and to get the help one might need if the "disorder" causes them a lot of difficulties.
As much as I do believe that even the most severe mental illnesses are a natural part of evolution and aren't actually disorders, I also can't say that someone who can't function on a daily basis without meds or some kind of assistance is normal, because they aren't.
So there isn't too much harm in saying people who are significantly impaired have a disorder.
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AD/HD BAP.
HDTV...
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bumble
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 27, 2011
Posts: 1390
Location: Norfolk, UK
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| dr01dguy wrote: | | Quote: | | How many disorders really are disorders given that our lifestyles have become so unnatural and would they still be disorders if we still lived the primitive lifestyles we are genetically adapted to life? |
Ya know, personally, I'd rather be shamelessly exploited by the likes of Shire, take my meds, and function well in modern society, than die toothless and decrepit in a mud hut at the ripe old age of 40 from some infection or injury that, in modern society, would mean having a crappy weekend and missing a day or two of work. |
Who said you have to live in mud hut to function well in society?
I was thinking more along the lines of society being more accepting of difference and being much less judgemental. With much less stigma, discrimination and unjust prejudice treatment out there more people with 'disorders' would be able to function better.
Although it depends on what you mean by function. If, in order to function more effectively, (as a female), if I have to:
1 Start obsessing over a broken nail and run for an emergency manicure before someone sees my unfortunate state
2 Go shopping for uncomfortable over priced impractical clothes just because they are in fashion
3 Start obsessively curtain twitching just so I have some gossip to spread around next time I want some chit chat with people
4 Do things exactly the same way as everybody else just because that is what everybody else is doing
5 Stop thinking for myself and believe everything every expert or group of individuals say is right just because they say so
I think I would rather go live in the mud hut...
Because lets be honest, most of what functioning well is all about in today's society is fitting in with the crowd. It's no longer about survival and supporting other members of your small nomadic group. It's not even really about compassion, or caring, or equality and equal rights and sharing...
It's not even about learning and progress, not in the social circles I am exposed to!
As a female it is all about how big your tits are, how fat your arse is, who you shagged last night, how much you drank, how high you got and who got into a fight with who so you can gossip and b***h about it with your circle of friends.
God forbid someone should interrupt all that really really really important stuff with things like individual thought, a dash of non conformity and some actual learning and personal development. If they are not doing the latter so they can earn oodles of money and get a big flash car and house to show off they must be really seriously mentally ill!
Call the men in the white coats and get them labelled with a disorder before drugging them up to the eyeballs and locking them in a white padded cell. There MUST be something wrong with them!
(Yup, sorry, personal vent there and a slight digression from ADHD, but relevant to mental health issues in a way because many of my diagnoses (and some of my social issues) came about because I have the audacity and daring to actually think for myself instead of letting society condition me!).
At 13 when they ran psych tests on me (although Asperger's was not tested for in those days as it was not in the DSM at the time) all they found was that:
I had advanced intellectual development for my age
Advance moral development for my age
That I was somewhat emotionally immature
That I was over sensitive
And that (god forbid) I was too Idealistic.
These were considered to be problems?
Ok the emotional maturity needed some work, maybe, if they were correct, but really, excuse me for not being at the same stage of development as everyone else, for caring about the state of the planet and humankind at a young age, being idealistic and having the cheek to be advanced in regards to my intellect and morality.
Well of course I must need medication and a therapist and that nice white padded cell for that lot, not to mention the need for most of my peers to ostracise me until I relented and adjusted my stages of development (and priorities) to match with theirs...
Bloody hell, this so called functional society has A grade average students (like myself) stuck on disability, labelled with some disorder and stigmatised whilst monkey's in suits run the Country, the tabloid press and movie industry dictates social norms and the latest trend to the masses who behave like the media is a god and the psych profession are going mad with DSM V. It's a no wonder this society is falling apart...
Who could function amidst all that lot?
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For cross stitching, tapestry, other arts and crafts and the upcoming shark kingdom when I get around to it, visit: www.bumbleshobbyhome.blogspot.com
Last edited by bumble on Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:13 am; edited 9 times in total |
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AspieWolf
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 26, 2010
Age: 68
Posts: 507
Location: Out of my mind. Back in 10 minutes.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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Look up Thomas Szasz and perhaps Nathaniel Brandon. They will give you a few things to think about.
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"A man needs a little madness...or else...he never dares cut the rope and be free."
Nikos Kazantzakis, ZORBA THE GREEK
Some of us just have a little more madness than others! |
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EXPECIALLY
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 21, 2011
Age: 29
Posts: 700
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How many disorders really are disorders given that our lifestyles have become so unnatural and would they still be disorders if we still lived the primitive lifestyles we are genetically adapted to life? |
I agree with this but the mere fact that some people with ADHD and AS can't function in modern society the way NTs do implies that we aren't as well suited for the environment and haven't adapted.
Just because we may have once been normal, doesn't mean we are now.
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AD/HD BAP.
HDTV...
Whatever.
Last edited by EXPECIALLY on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Apple_in_my_Eye
I don't remember
Joined: May 08, 2008
Age: 44
Posts: 4000
Location: in my brain
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Mithos wrote: | "ADHD and all that other crap is fantasy, pal. Move on." I don't know what to think. Does that mean all mental conditions are fake and made up? I've been vigorously watching and reading debates on the topic all day long.
((And I'm new, so if there is another topic on this, feel free to guide me there.)) |
IME, when people say something like that it's usually not because they have done thorough research and have thoughtfully considered the issue. It's like when people say, "I don't trust book-learnin'." It's sort of an emotional response that involves feeling sorry for oneself -- the idea that others are getting special breaks in life that you didn't, and that makes you jealous and want not for them to have it. I would bet that that person also doesn't believe in depression, ASD, or anything else in the DSM, except maybe schizophrenia. I'd also bet that they believe that most people on disability are fakers, most people on welfare are just lazy and so on. It's a remarkably common mindset.
Like any good conspiracy theory, though, it has some plausible ideas in it. The phama industry does profit and does try to influence things so that they can profit more. Some of those companies have paid billion dollar fines for trying to market to doctors off-label uses (off-label use by doctors is legal, drug companies suggesting such use to doctors is not). If it didn't benefit them greatly they probably wouldn't take the risk. But the idea that ADD or depression is purely the result of pharma companies seems unlikely to me. |
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Mithos
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 685
Location: Ponyville, Equestria.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Apple_in_my_Eye wrote: | | Mithos wrote: | "ADHD and all that other crap is fantasy, pal. Move on." I don't know what to think. Does that mean all mental conditions are fake and made up? I've been vigorously watching and reading debates on the topic all day long.
((And I'm new, so if there is another topic on this, feel free to guide me there.)) |
IME, when people say something like that it's usually not because they have done thorough research and have thoughtfully considered the issue. It's like when people say, "I don't trust book-learnin'." It's sort of an emotional response that involves feeling sorry for oneself -- the idea that others are getting special breaks in life that you didn't, and that makes you jealous and want not for them to have it. I would bet that that person also doesn't believe in depression, ASD, or anything else in the DSM, except maybe schizophrenia. I'd also bet that they believe that most people on disability are fakers, most people on welfare are just lazy and so on. It's a remarkably common mindset.
Like any good conspiracy theory, though, it has some plausible ideas in it. The phama industry does profit and does try to influence things so that they can profit more. Some of those companies have paid billion dollar fines for trying to market to doctors off-label uses (off-label use by doctors is legal, drug companies suggesting such use to doctors is not). If it didn't benefit them greatly they probably wouldn't take the risk. But the idea that ADD or depression is purely the result of pharma companies seems unlikely to me. |
Thank you for commenting.  |
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Callista
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 9931
Location: Central USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:26 am Post subject: |
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You do brain scans on people with ADHD, you see their brains light up differently. Apparently, ADHD folks have less efficient prefrontal areas in the brain--that's the part of the brain that kind of acts like a manager for the rest. With your prefrontal area a bit under-active, it's difficult to control yourself, organize your thoughts, and stay at an optimal level of alertness, neither too zoned-out nor too hyper. Stimulants help you because they wake your brain up a bit, so you can control things better.
That's pretty simplistic, though. Only one of many theories, and there's more to it than that. There's the sensory aspect, for one; and of course cognition is different more respects than just executive control. But that is the sort of difference you find in ADHD people versus typical controls when you read up on the experiments people have done to see how they're different.
So yeah, ADHD is real. But it's also a solvable problem; people with ADHD can learn to work with their differences, often even turning them into strengths. That scattered tendency can double as creativity, for example. Don't listen to the naysayers; just go about your business, do your best, and remember that "work harder" is probably not the solution--understanding yourself and planning for your own weaknesses, however, usually makes a great start.
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Mithos
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 22, 2012
Age: 22
Posts: 685
Location: Ponyville, Equestria.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Callista wrote: | You do brain scans on people with ADHD, you see their brains light up differently. Apparently, ADHD folks have less efficient prefrontal areas in the brain--that's the part of the brain that kind of acts like a manager for the rest. With your prefrontal area a bit under-active, it's difficult to control yourself, organize your thoughts, and stay at an optimal level of alertness, neither too zoned-out nor too hyper. Stimulants help you because they wake your brain up a bit, so you can control things better.
That's pretty simplistic, though. Only one of many theories, and there's more to it than that. There's the sensory aspect, for one; and of course cognition is different more respects than just executive control. But that is the sort of difference you find in ADHD people versus typical controls when you read up on the experiments people have done to see how they're different.
So yeah, ADHD is real. But it's also a solvable problem; people with ADHD can learn to work with their differences, often even turning them into strengths. That scattered tendency can double as creativity, for example. Don't listen to the naysayers; just go about your business, do your best, and remember that "work harder" is probably not the solution--understanding yourself and planning for your own weaknesses, however, usually makes a great start. |
That was AMAZING. I did have brain scans done on me when I was a child and I went through several tests at the age of 7 or 8, and here I am today. Coffee helps me out a lot. I swear by coffee. |
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Chronos
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 23, 2010
Posts: 5231
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:10 am Post subject: Re: Is Attention Defficit Hyperactivity Disorder REAL? |
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| Mithos wrote: | I've been recently hearing and reading that it's just a made up disorder for pharmaceutical companies to milk money. I was talking with this guy at the Bus stop earlier today about it and he said to me. "ADHD and all that other crap is fantasy, pal. Move on." I don't know what to think. Does that mean all mental conditions are fake and made up? I've been vigorously watching and reading debates on the topic all day long.
((And I'm new, so if there is another topic on this, feel free to guide me there.)) |
I think it's a real issue however I think it's is...or was, overdiagnosed.
Is it a disorder? That depends on the context. Many people diagnosed ADHD struggle primarily with academic school work that requires they sit and learn boring subjects for hours a day. It might be, that these individuals, while not unintelligent, are just not cut out for such endeavors. Remember, for the vast majority of human history we were hunters and gatherers. Later we were farmers, laborers, and craftsmen/craftswomen. Most of these occupations were learned on the job, and required a high degree of physical activity. Few people were scholars who sat and studied hours each day.
So in those societies, those who have a difficult time sitting for hours on end studying, would have never had a chance to realize those difficulties.
Other individuals, however, might not have been so fortunate. These are the people with ADHD who have trouble listening to others, remembering what they were told to do and not to do, and who are impulsive. These people probably have what is, in all honestly, clinical ADHD, and probably got beaten a lot in pre-modern societies. |
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