|
| Should psychopaths be eliminated? |
| No, they are people too |
|
82% |
[ 24 ] |
| Yes, they are dangerous and worthless |
|
17% |
[ 5 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 29 |
|
Keyman
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 24, 2012
Age: 19
Posts: 399
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Seems school teach students these things unknowingly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
donnie_darko
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2009
Age: 23
Posts: 1794
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| eigerpere wrote: | | MCalavera wrote: | | Cyanide wrote: | | Keyman wrote: |
It might be psychopathy or it might be an unstable upbringing. Many people that does things like this usually has a short fuse, anger management problem. The kid in question is brought up with many siblings in a poor area with little care. Not the best environment. But sure, he might be a danger to other kids. |
The murderer in question was 10 years old. He's old enough to know exactly what he's doing. Torturing and killing animals at that age is the sign of a future serial killer, but he's already murdered another human being. 10 year old children don't kill people because of a "bad upbringing". They do it because they're completely psychotic to the core. People like that child have absolutely no place in a civilized society. The article didn't say if the child felt remorse, but I highly doubt he did. |
From what I've personally read, a lot (if not all) of the serial killers had bad upbringing. Very bad may I add. |
That's not true at all, not sure where you're getting your information from. Dahmer is just one example. |
I think Dahmer was tormented mostly by internal demons. And you never know, he could have been abused by someone and nobody even noticed. His parents seem kind of strange actually. |
|
| Back to top |
|
heavenlyabyss
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 530
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Never mind. Maybe I was wrong. Apparently, psychopaths are not even concerned with consequences which really does not change my argument much. A key trait of psychopathy seems to be lack of fear of consequences actually. So perhaps my argument was bass-ackwards.
http://tami-port.suite101.com/can-psychopaths-be-rehabilitated-a28604
I don't know, I am not a psychologist. All I am saying is there are bad people out there, and it is something to be aware of. I am not implying that all psychopaths are "bad" because I cannot make that assertion. I just know that they are simply incomprehensible to most normal people. I know I feel plenty of guilt so while I may suffer some narcissistic tendencies, I do know I at least have a conscience.
Sorry if I offended anyone. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Oodain
big chief wulla bamboom alakaway
Joined: Jan 31, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 5022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
so there simply doesnt exist a way to push a 10 year old to murder?
i think anyone can be pushed to do anything giving sufficient motivation and time
_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//
the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I said no, and for two reasons:
1) if its a convenience thing we'll just greatly broaden what we consider psychopathic
2) if we're going to go the genocide route in terms of regulating undesirables this is still far too narrow a window. Genocide as a solution is really something that only makes sense if a society is perfectly okay with taking out everything - the mentally ill, the disabled, the criminally deranged, those with ASD's (which is one reason I don't like the idea of big government control), pretty much whatever is jamming the pipes up or making the world run less smoothly. You don't get to just pick one narrow group, at least not for any length of time with contagium in effect. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cyanide wrote: | | CrazyCatLord wrote: | | eigerpere wrote: | | Environment obviously has an effect on everyone but don't believe it makes people what they are when it comes to violent crimes. We just have to disagree and move on. |
Then how do you explain the higher incidence of violent crime in countries with higher levels of poverty? Are impoverished ethnic minorities genetically programmed to be criminals? |
People who live in poverty are more likely to turn to crime and gang activity to make a living. However, that isn't psychopathy. They may commit violent acts, but it's because they got mixed up in some bad things, NOT because they're insane (usually). If you change those peoples' environment, their behavior will change. That's not the case with psychopaths. Actually, I could argue that more psychopaths are rich and therefore come from a good environment.
| Sweetleaf wrote: |
According to psychology this is actually not the case, a 10 year old childs brain is still very much developing, they have note even reached adolescence yet. Also how do you know this 10 year old knew what he was doing? is there an interview with the 10 year old. |
I found a more detailed article here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/8957837/Sweden-strangling-10-year-old-boy-confesses-to-killing-four-year-old.html
He strangled the child with a jump rope. That's proof positive there that it was premeditated, and he knew exactly what he was doing. If you're going to strangle someone on a whim, on impulse, you're going to use your hands, because that's the closest thing you have to use. Also, as you'll notice in the article...
| Quote: | | "The boy has told us what he did and how he did it and there is a confession in that." |
There's no word of an apology or remorse. If the child had said he was sorry, I'm sure they would've put that in the article. It sounds like he just flatly explained what he did to police. That's what psychopathic serial killers do.
EDIT: 10 year olds are old enough to know what death is, and to understand basic right from wrong. |
Well personally I don't typically jump to conclusions about things like this when I hear about them. I mean in reality all you have is second hand information and articles so though it can be an intresting topic of discussion there is no way for anyone to know for sure if he was a psychopath based on a newspaper article the media sometimes leaves things out. But yes he could have been a psychopath.
Also you can say what you want but according to psychology 10 year olds are technically not old enough to know right from wrong or understand death in all instances.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
So who do you guys suppose is going to end up in the positions of deciding who is a psychopath in need of genocide? See that is the trouble with this entire thing genocide is psychopathic in nature, so what would prevent the psychopaths from finding a way to use it for their own benefit.
Also, just another bit of technical information psychopathy is actually a vague term, that does not point to any specific mental illness...its more of a popular term used to describe people in history who have done horrible things or who make it on the news for doing horrible things. So that already makes the idea of trying to sort out who's a psychopath and who's not difficult to begin with.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I know this is a hypothetical conversation but another thing that scares me as well on it. You all realize we have people in this forum who are all about bloody revolution of the proletariat and that, by necessity, they project psychopathy on the rich because they'd never be able to take up such behavior against other 'humans'. Do you see how loose this is and how many ways it can be applied? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | I know this is a hypothetical conversation but another thing that scares me as well on it. You all realize we have people in this forum who are all about bloody revolution of the proletariat and that, by necessity, they project psychopathy on the rich because they'd never be able to take up such behavior against other 'humans'. Do you see how loose this is and how many ways it can be used? |
How is wanting to change the power structure we currently have psychopathic? Unless people are out claiming all rich people should be killed its not all that psychopathic. If anything is psychopathic its the fact that a very small group of very wealthy people own most of the worlds wealth, means of production & distribution...and they want it all for themselves and don't give a damn about their fellow humans.
but that is not a debate for this thread,....just wanted to be clear I don't advocate mass murder when I talk about there needing to be changes in society and the economic system.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweetleaf wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | I know this is a hypothetical conversation but another thing that scares me as well on it. You all realize we have people in this forum who are all about bloody revolution of the proletariat and that, by necessity, they project psychopathy on the rich because they'd never be able to take up such behavior against other 'humans'. Do you see how loose this is and how many ways it can be used? |
How is wanting to change the power structure we currently have psychopathic? Unless people are out claiming all rich people should be killed its not all that psychopathic. If anything is psychopathic its the fact that a very small group of very wealthy people own most of the worlds wealth, means of production & distribution...and they want it all for themselves and don't give a damn about their fellow humans.
but that is not a debate for this thread,....just wanted to be clear I don't advocate mass murder when I talk about there needing to be changes in society and the economic system. |
The only reason I bring that up is that I heard people clearly calling for violent revolt - if you weren't then I'm not talking about you in that sense. The psychopath thing kept getting brought up and with such tedium that it became pretty clear that it was being used as a device to distance the humanity of certain types of people who were inconvenient. That's not to say that I'm calling them evil, I'm calling it a local reminder of how these things work with human nature and that even the most self-proclaimed liberal and open minded people have just as much of it as anyone else. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Sweetleaf
Metalhead
Joined: Jan 07, 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 14794
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | I know this is a hypothetical conversation but another thing that scares me as well on it. You all realize we have people in this forum who are all about bloody revolution of the proletariat and that, by necessity, they project psychopathy on the rich because they'd never be able to take up such behavior against other 'humans'. Do you see how loose this is and how many ways it can be used? |
How is wanting to change the power structure we currently have psychopathic? Unless people are out claiming all rich people should be killed its not all that psychopathic. If anything is psychopathic its the fact that a very small group of very wealthy people own most of the worlds wealth, means of production & distribution...and they want it all for themselves and don't give a damn about their fellow humans.
but that is not a debate for this thread,....just wanted to be clear I don't advocate mass murder when I talk about there needing to be changes in society and the economic system. |
The only reason I bring that up is that I heard people clearly calling for violent revolt - if you weren't then I'm not talking about you in that sense. The psychopath thing kept getting brought up and with such tedium that it became pretty clear that it was being used as a device to distance the humanity of certain types of people who were inconvenient. That's not to say that I'm calling them evil, I'm calling it a local reminder of how these things work with human nature and that even the most self-proclaimed liberal and open minded people have just as much of it as anyone else. |
Sadly it might escalate into that, depending on what happens in the future....but I prefer trying to solve things as peacefully as possible...but I do see your point.
_________________
It's like alice in wonderland except, my names not alice and this is the real world not a dream. |
|
| Back to top |
|
techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sweetleaf wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | Sweetleaf wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | I know this is a hypothetical conversation but another thing that scares me as well on it. You all realize we have people in this forum who are all about bloody revolution of the proletariat and that, by necessity, they project psychopathy on the rich because they'd never be able to take up such behavior against other 'humans'. Do you see how loose this is and how many ways it can be used? |
How is wanting to change the power structure we currently have psychopathic? Unless people are out claiming all rich people should be killed its not all that psychopathic. If anything is psychopathic its the fact that a very small group of very wealthy people own most of the worlds wealth, means of production & distribution...and they want it all for themselves and don't give a damn about their fellow humans.
but that is not a debate for this thread,....just wanted to be clear I don't advocate mass murder when I talk about there needing to be changes in society and the economic system. |
The only reason I bring that up is that I heard people clearly calling for violent revolt - if you weren't then I'm not talking about you in that sense. The psychopath thing kept getting brought up and with such tedium that it became pretty clear that it was being used as a device to distance the humanity of certain types of people who were inconvenient. That's not to say that I'm calling them evil, I'm calling it a local reminder of how these things work with human nature and that even the most self-proclaimed liberal and open minded people have just as much of it as anyone else. |
Sadly it might escalate into that, depending on what happens in the future....but I prefer trying to solve things as peacefully as possible...but I do see your point. |
The rich of our age group though are still growing up in our day and age with all the same influences and most of the same attitudes, and we're seeing even more musician/green consulting hipsters coming from legacy money which is why I'm really doubtful of people's worst case scenario thinking. |
|
| Back to top |
|
b9
whatever..
Joined: Aug 15, 2008
Posts: 8352
Location: australia
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
my friend/associate sees me as a psychopath. he considers my attitudes reprehensible, and i consider his attitudes to be the product of a bleeding heart mentality. he is only my friend because i give him money. if i did not do that, he would not be my friend.
it was thought by my doctors when i was young that i may be psychopathic, but it was ruled out because i do care for animals and some humans.
my "friend" has a simplistic idea of psychopathy because he is not educated as to what constitutes psychopathy.
i think psychopathy is the opposite of schizophrenia.
psychopathy and schizophrenia are equally distant from normalcy, but in different directions.
schizophrenics (when acute) believe that they are controlled by external forces, and they are often paranoid, and psychopaths are impervious to external forces and not worried at all about any imagined "karma" they may be engendering due to their actions.
schizophrenic people feel like victims of higher forces, and psychopaths feel like they are the higher force.
my "friend" thinks i am psychopathic for many and various reasons. i will try to list them.
i am reasonably successful and i have a business that makes me money while i exert minimal effort, and i have "rescued him" by making him an employee of my business. he has to drive a truck and do deliveries, and i pay him above award rates. while i sleep he works, and i earn more than he does, but it is my investment and money that makes it all possible. he does not understand that.
i pay for the stock that he delivers, and if i had no money, he would be on the street begging for food.
he thinks that i think of him as my "nigger" and he thinks i treat him as a slave, but i pay him much more than i would have to pay average drivers. i pay him $250 per day, and i could get a driver that i would only have to pay $140 per day for. they would not question their salary.
he says that because he is my friend, that he deserves much more, but in my mind he is a parasite who wants to suck on my nipples like a hungry piglet who snorts into it's mothers belly greedily.
why does he deserve more? why should i forgo my own income for him? he is smart and good looking but he is lazy, and he never looks for a job that could pay more. he knows he would not get a job that pays more because he is not prepared to work from 9-5 for 5 days per week.
when i tell him that, he goes beserk and says "well you don't even have to get out of bed and you're earning much more than me!!"
that may be the case, but it is not my fault that i am in the position i am. i worked hard to get to be where i am, and he has always been a dreamer all his life. he thinks he is like jimi hendrix and he thinks that people should see his power of soul, but i think he is latently schizophrenic.
he was talking the other day about "agenda 21" and he was saying that the "illuminati" are fixing to reduce the population of the world to 500 million, and he said that they were using monsanto to poison the water and soil and air, and every time he sees a simple vapor trail from a jetliner, he believes it is a "chem trail" of poison.
i can not talk him out of his beliefs because they are so ingrained into his brain, so i said "well as long as i do not live to see it come to fruition i do not care"
he was thoroughly disgusted with my attitude and called me a psychopath once again.
he said "are you telling me you don't care about what happens in the world after you die?!?!".
i said "tell me this. if an asteroid obliterated all life on the world the day after you die, would you care?"
he could not believe i could be so callous to ask such a question. he hung up in my ear, and i have not heard from him since, but i am sure that the day before his next day of employment he will ring me to make sure he is required to work for me. if he does not, then i have another driver rearing to go.
i never have wanted anyone to fail and i have no pleasure in seeing pain and if it was up to me, i would anoint everyone on earth with prosperity and security.
but i do not really live outside my own world, and people hurt and fail outside of my consciousness, and i have no knowledge of it and so i can always easily go to sleep.
maybe i am a candidate for euthanasia because i am not a community minded spirit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Vexcalibur
Proud to be smug as heck
![]()
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Posts: 5378
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Keyman wrote: | | People without the drive to make other peoples lives a misery? |
And you think they would like to do politics, because?
_________________
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14830
Location: A beautiful vector among many
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| b9 wrote: |
he was talking the other day about "agenda 21" and he was saying that the "illuminati" are fixing to reduce the population of the world to 500 million, and he said that they were using monsanto to poison the water and soil and air, and every time he sees a simple vapor trail from a jetliner, he believes it is a "chem trail" of poison.
i can not talk him out of his beliefs because they are so ingrained into his brain, so i said "well as long as i do not live to see it come to fruition i do not care"
he was thoroughly disgusted with my attitude and called me a psychopath once again.
he said "are you telling me you don't care about what happens in the world after you die?!?!".
i said "tell me this. if an asteroid obliterated all life on the world the day after you die, would you care?"
he could not believe i could be so callous to ask such a question. he hung up in my ear, and i have not heard from him since, but i am sure that the day before his next day of employment he will ring me to make sure he is required to work for me. if he does not, then i have another driver rearing to go.
i never have wanted anyone to fail and i have no pleasure in seeing pain and if it was up to me, i would anoint everyone on earth with prosperity and security.
but i do not really live outside my own world, and people hurt and fail outside of my consciousness, and i have no knowledge of it and so i can always easily go to sleep.
maybe i am a candidate for euthanasia because i am not a community minded spirit. |
It seems like the harder a person's failing and the more aware they are they're failing at a subconscious level the more convoluted the dream world that they make up rather than cope with reality. Typically when we offend as aspies, we offend people's dream worlds, the difference with us - part of why we don't have dreamworlds to steep our minds in and even try to make public policy on or alie to ourselves all day long is that the long arm of society caught us "Person no. 1 - you can BS to yourself, we accept you....next.... person no. 2 - you can BS to yourself, we accept you.....next.....person No. 3....wait...hold it right there....denied!!" (person No. 3 is aspie). Because we quite often can't get away with lying to ourselves like everyone else without it being held against us we may often become hyper-realists in trying to seize what tools we have left to us which likely could make us look very sheer and manipulative because we've become all pragmatics and no sugar (at least outwardly to those around us), and even when we try to gloss that over with social consideration to people's vulnerabilities its still difficult to do right with people who've developed so differently from us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
