Marcia
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 15, 2008
Posts: 1477
|
 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| EnglishLulu wrote: | | What you want is for the relationship to progress so that you're having a normal adult relationship with a man, in an environment where you can have privacy and intimacy, whereas he's quite happy for you to be creeping round his mother's house like children on your best behaviour. |
I have decided not to pursue a relationship with a man in his forties who still lives with his parents because I realised that he was like a middle aged adolescent. Privacy is certainly a large part of it, and as much as anything if I were to visit him, even if just for a coffee and a chat - not even any more intimate, I would be visiting his parents as well as him. It's their house and he still sleeps in the same single bed in the same room he moved into as a teenager. I went out with him for some years when I was in my teens (I'm now 43) and got back in contact with him about 4 years ago.
I do understand, up to a point, why he still lives with his parents. He is a farmer, gradually took over the day to day running of the business from his father, and the tradition is that the parents move out when the son gets married and brings his bride home. However, he is still single at the age of 46 and is pretty much destined to remain so unless he gets his own place.
What I find frustrating about my friend is that they own a cottage only a few hundred yards along the road, but they rent it out. Since I've renewed our friendship it has been unoccupied a couple of time, and I've suggested that he move into it, but he just ignores or shrugs off that suggestion.
For me, it's not even so much about privacy or being intruded on or being aware of someone else in the house while sleeping together, but that someone who has never had their own home, own space and control over that just hasn't experienced what I feel is a pretty essential part of being an adult.
I understand your frustrations, and I suppose I have chosen not to get into the situation that you're now in. I had the advantage of knowing in advance what the situation was. If it weren't for mobile phones I probably wouldn't be in contact with my friend at all, because I really couldn't be bothered having to speak to his mother every time I phoned the land line. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Dilbert
Will work for love
Joined: Mar 30, 2009
Age: 39
Posts: 1728
Location: 47°36'N 122°20'W
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wow. I just don't get that.  I couldn't wait to move out on my own. I've lived on my own since I was 19.
I think guys like that are just afraid of the big bad world. Maybe they are afraid of change? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Marcia
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 15, 2008
Posts: 1477
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dilbert wrote: | Wow. I just don't get that. I couldn't wait to move out on my own. I've lived on my own since I was 19.
I think guys like that are just afraid of the big bad world. Maybe they are afraid of change? |
Yeah, I don't get it either. I left to go to uni when I was 18, went back for a few months after I graduated but couldn't stand it, and left again to get my own place. I think with my friend it is some kind of subconscious fear of change, but he moans about his parents, particularly his mother, like a moody teenager. When you have your own place your relationship with your parents does change, and his hasn't, at all.
One of my friends lived with her parents until she was about 30, but it was very different. Her father was very keen for her to save money so she could buy her own place, and she lived with them for that reason. Visiting her though was very different, because it was clearly 3 adults who shared a house - not a child with their parents. There were times I went to see her and I didn't see her parents at all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
biostructure
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 18, 2006
Age: 28
Posts: 1185
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dilbert wrote: | Wow. I just don't get that. I couldn't wait to move out on my own. I've lived on my own since I was 19.
I think guys like that are just afraid of the big bad world. Maybe they are afraid of change? |
I think so. I also think, and as always this may just be me projecting myself into the situation, that he might still have "unfinished business" in the social/emotional area from his (chronological) adolescence that he needs to get through. In other words, most people have a certain kind of friendships and dating relationships in their adolescence, and someone who's a loner during that period will have missed those.
I'd be rich if I had a dime for every time someone said "those early relationships aren't really serious, they don't mean anything anyway". But in my opinion, this is a complete load of crap. It's sort of in the same ballpark as saying that play is unimportant for children. Yes, a kid won't die if he/she never plays a game, and in the adult world it doesn't matter if you know how to jump rope or play Monopoly. However, there is training of the brain that happens through play, that gives the brain a "sandbox" in which to wire itself and develop, as is clearly demonstrated in animal species where the young engage in play, when particular individuals are so deprived. In the same vein, I believe that being psychologically healthy in serious adult dating requires a prior chance for "experimental" dating. This is seen also in some gay and transgender people, who seem to go through a "second puberty" in adulthood whenever they come to terms with who they are (if they didn't do so during actual puberty).
That being said, there is no reason a guy like him could not continue to live at home, while visiting your place when the two of you want privacy and/or "alone time". That is, unless the mom has an objection to that, which I'm somehow suspecting she does. When I moved back in with my parents, while I was encouraged by the reduced financial concerns, which gave me more time to be social, my biggest dread was that I wouldn't have a place of my own to bring friends and especially girls home to, like I did when away at college. Therefore, dating a girl who has her own place, provided she lived close by and was OK with a "teenage sort of relationship" in other aspects, would be a godsend, as I wouldn't have to worry about the awkwardness of bringing a girl home to my parents' place every time I wanted to see her. |
|
| Back to top |
|
technical_cat
Hummingbird
Joined: Jan 20, 2011
Posts: 24
Location: Wales, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Biostructure, I definitely agree that he has unfinished adolesecnt business. It's like he completely stood still from his late teens until he started dating me at 33.
He has said himself that he feels that he's "missed" out on his twenties - this was in response to me being upset about him flirting with a girl in a mountain biking forum when we were together, he was basically commenting on how pretty she was - she'd posted a topic saying she was looking for a boyfriend who was a mountain biker (he's a mountain biker).
But what I don't understand is that I'm not pressuring him to move out, or even change his relationship with his mother. The situation isn't ideal, I would have liked a fully functioning relationship I guess, although not the co-habiting part, but because I like him so much I'm totatlly prepared to very happily compromise.
I just find the sneaking around his 70 year old mother's house intolerable, and he absolutely cannot see why.
I don't understand at all why he doesn't jump at the chance to have all the freedom he wants at my house. He has an opportunity to "test" out his adult wings if you like, with none of the expectation of taking it further, no responsibility e.t.c.
While he says that he won't ask me to do it again, and has agreed to one night stay at my house on weekedns, I don't think I should start things at all with him again while he feels deepdown that I'm being unreasonable and selfish about staying at his mother's house.
I don't know if there is any other way that anyone knows, a technique maybe, or a different approach to try and help him see the "bigger" picture in terms of his unrealistic expectations of women in thier 30's/40's.
If any one does know, I'd appreciate a pointer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
mv
Protector of the Realm
Joined: Jun 18, 2010
Posts: 3131
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Have sex in his mother's kitchen. I think that would bring many problems to a head, with interesting results. It may just wake him up.
I'm completely kidding, I just find it hard to understand people who are allowed and encouraged to live with their parents into adulthood. Regardless of my own functioning level, it was clearly understood (and stated, on occasion) that I was not to return to my parents' house once I finished my schooling. |
|
| Back to top |
|
technical_cat
Hummingbird
Joined: Jan 20, 2011
Posts: 24
Location: Wales, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
mv...........I needed that ! 
perhaps I should roll in there drunk, dressed head to toe in leather, smoking a j**nt and swearing my head off instead if creeping around ! certainly would solve the problem one way or another.
I think I have taken on board the "single mother" comments as weel here. I think there may well be some element of her feeling threatened. He's her "surrogate" husband and she would lose her proverbial punching bag, her fetcher, and someone to put the bins out if he went.
I would have thought she'd be happy because I'm never going to ask him to marry me, have kids, or support me in any way, not even emotionally - perhaps she doesn't know that about me. I wonder if it would make a difference ?
When he is with me, she's constantly on the phone asking if he remembered to get this or that shopping, or that she can't get the cats in e.t.c...never really thought about her not liking me or feeling threatened by me.
We did talk about this briefly, but he seems powerless to do anything about the calls and demands she makes while I'm with him, although he seems to want a bit more distance from her. and does get really pissed off about it.
As it is we haven't spoken (him and I) for three days now....I have, in desparation, contacted a councellor this afternoon who says she can councel AS adults, but am doubtful he'll want to disclose anything to anyone else. His mother doesn't even know he's probably AS, he's "harboured" it as a shameful secret all his life, although probably none of the people who know him would be suprised at all.
will see what the councellor suggestion brings............... |
|
| Back to top |
|
technical_cat
Hummingbird
Joined: Jan 20, 2011
Posts: 24
Location: Wales, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
hyper............if I do that he freaks out and gets very, very agressive verbally and attacks me calling me pathetic and stupid and whore and such...............he's hypersensitive to percieved criticism, he thinks I'm directly attacking him and trying to make him feel bad.........
edit: oops, I was replying to Hyper's post about talking to him bluntly about him being in a LTR with his mother ...but it seems to have vanished !? |
|
| Back to top |
|
hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
he's verbally abusive yet so you have to tiptoe around what you say to him IN ADDITION to him being essentially married to his mother... i am failing to understand why you want to make it work with him.
_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5043493.html#5043493 |
|
| Back to top |
|
Marcia
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 15, 2008
Posts: 1477
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hyperlexian wrote: | | he's verbally abusive yet so you have to tiptoe around what you say to him IN ADDITION to him being essentially married to his mother... i am failing to understand why you want to make it work with him. |
I've been wondering why you wanted to continue this relationship, but reckoned he must have other, great qualities that more than made up for the domestic situation.
Now you reveal that he's verbally abusive, and hypersensitive to perceived criticism, I haven't the faintest idea what you see in him.
I'm sorry, but the mother/home situation would have been enough for me to finish it, but abuse is abuse is abuse and totally unacceptable, even if it is only a part-time, non co-habiting relationship. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Chooty
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Nov 24, 2008
Posts: 43
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Overnight stays & intimacy when boyfriend lives with |
|
|
| technical_cat wrote: | Hello,
I'm just looking for some other points of view really, trying to understand whether I am being unreasonable or not.
My boyfriend lives with his mother, he's 35, not a big problem for me as he needs the support and would struggle (practically) to live independantly. I am not looking to live with anyone myself and the arrangement suits me.
I have been living on my own since I was 17, I currently have a 3 bedroom house, that I have to myself on the weekends. He doesn't want to spend time in my house, but has reluctantly agreed to one night on the weekends (after a year of trying to work it out).
My boyfriends mother is very intrusive regarding his privacy in his bedroom, she just walks in, she often runs him down in front of me, she will frequently come out of her room and find me to talk to me if she hears me walking around the house (trying to go to the bathroom e.t.c.). Also she will often want to have long conversations when I am just tired and want to have some privacy with him. I can't shower, get something to eat, make a drink without her being there at every turn, it feels disrespectful to just help myself in her house and I am mostly "confined" to his cramped room when he is there. I feel like she is listening for every slight sound we make. intimacy is awkward to say the least !
I am a single mum, who works full time, and I run my house by myself. There is always something that needs doing on the weekend regarding my chores and house. I am always pretty tired by the end of the week, strung out and I need to relax.
I was his first girlfriend.
My boyfriend wants me to have overnight stays, be intimate and spend time with him at his mother's house. I think he's being unreasonable and that his expectations in this area are unrealistic . He's undiagnosed AS.
He can't understand why I don't want to hang out with him in a place where he feels so comfortable. He's angry with me that I don't want to "make him happy" by spending time with him in a place that he feels most comfortable, and that I feel extremely uncomfortable in.
any advice or points of view greatly appreciated. |
Hey. I can relate to this, I have a girlfriend and still live half at home / half with her, and she is really at odds (if not cold war) with my mother. She is also very...troubled by this situation. Difference is I'm only in my early twenties.
But I am even more troubled atm bc I'm in between two fires, and you should realize your partner is to. Stakes are high his mother has grown overprotective and controlling over the years. She 'really knows him' and 'how to deal with the problems', thus will naturally trust you less. This is however a very general phenomenon that I think most older woman have (the will to), but it becomes problematic when they can actually excersise this will. Note that she probably does want her son to have a life of his own, but can't help her controlling nature. Anyways my point is be aware that this could be very embarassing to your boyfriend to, and if he's anything like me also hammering on his self esteem.
However... know that you have him by the hook/hearth and that in the long run I think you will pull on the longest end. You literally have him by the balls haha. By that I mean that you should win the argument long term, if you encourage him to become more independent and spend time with you. He knows that he's 35 & this situation is not normal. But please understand (this is something you should believe the as community on) that structural changes are not that simple for him as for you. He will need time to get used to the idea of being with you more & how this would work for him. But I think (of course I don't know either of you) in the end he will cooperate. Whatever you do don't blow it up. My girlfriend doesn't want to see my parents again/ever come over bc she's uncomfortable at my house (I only visit her now, hopefully move in once), which puts me in an extremely akward position with my parents. That's not a good base to grow from.
Maybe if you give in a little, taking pressure off him, he will use that space to give in to your needs? Or propose a tradeoff: You will stay over night at his house every... 2 weeks or so & h'll spend an extra day with you on the weekends. You see each other more and you both won the argument |
|
| Back to top |
|
blueroses
restless, but going nowhere
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
Age: 30
Posts: 1598
Location: Lancaster, PA
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Marcia wrote: | | hyperlexian wrote: | | he's verbally abusive yet so you have to tiptoe around what you say to him IN ADDITION to him being essentially married to his mother... i am failing to understand why you want to make it work with him. |
I've been wondering why you wanted to continue this relationship, but reckoned he must have other, great qualities that more than made up for the domestic situation.
Now you reveal that he's verbally abusive, and hypersensitive to perceived criticism, I haven't the faintest idea what you see in him.
I'm sorry, but the mother/home situation would have been enough for me to finish it, but abuse is abuse is abuse and totally unacceptable, even if it is only a part-time, non co-habiting relationship. |
Ditto. I understand that it can be hard to let go of people, but you need to be treated better. The mother dynamic/situation alone is unhealthy, in my opinion, and the verbal abuse really concerns me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
technical_cat
Hummingbird
Joined: Jan 20, 2011
Posts: 24
Location: Wales, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
thanks again for the replies.
I did finish it all 7 months ago because the way he was treating me was intolerable. Ignoring my clear statements of needs, manipluating me into doing what he wanted, even though it was damaging me, and blowing up whenever I tried to even talk about an issue (I posted a while back in another topic on his hypsersensitivity to criticism).
But he does have many good points that fit in with my traits. I can't stand too much touch (very little and absolutely no light touch), I don't want to soend too much time with someone, I don't want a traditional live in relationship, I don't want to be practically or financially tangle up with anyone else - and we just "clcik" with sense of humour, many shared interests such as our cats, horror films/series.......in a way that I haven't clicked with anyone since I met my ex husband, I've been effectively on my own now for almost 10 years, have dated many, many men in that time and not felt like I do about him. He gives me physical freedom not to be constantly worrying when I'm going to be hugged, touched or made a demand apon to "smile" or "give a kiss", he just absolutely gets those parts and it's a blessed relief not to have to worry about them. That's really imprtant for me, and I've had miserable, really miserable relationships with some guys who, whilst they've never become verbally agressive, keep making incessant demands on me and my personal space, which honestly, I cope much worse with.
He also can be very sweet, grows chillies for me, makes films and cd's for me, we love cooking together, really enjoy each other's sense of humour (which is on the same level).
He has made a lot of major changes that I never thought he would make since we split up 7 months ago, with me in mind, but we are stuck on this one issue.
I can manage the hypersensitivity, I know I need to not pull those triggers and find other ways to try and communicate something with him.
To the last poster,
I did try giving in a little, I think it's at the start of this thread, it only ended up in him taking more and more and staying here less and less, to where he just expected me to go to his and all the time saying he would stay over and not doing it at all.
The situation at his house is absolutely intolerable for me, so staying there or even hanging out is just out of the question, I've tried it, it's just too weird, too wrong, too damaging and leaves me feeling awful, I'd rather not see him at all than at his mother's house.
Unless he really understands that it is completely intolerable, and why, I don't think he will ever stop trying to get me to do it, or if he sticks to not asking me to do it, he will always resent me for it thinking I'm just selfish and uncaring or don't love him enough. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Boxman108
"Oh...it's just a box."
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
Age: 21
Posts: 1390
Location: NH
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dilbert wrote: | Wow. I just don't get that. I couldn't wait to move out on my own. I've lived on my own since I was 19.
I think guys like that are just afraid of the big bad world. Maybe they are afraid of change? |
Not everyone can afford to lie on their own, regardless of whether they may actually want to or not. Some are pretty much stuck.
_________________
About suffering they were never wrong,
The Old Masters: how well they understood
Its human position; how it takes place
While someone else is eating or opening a window or
just walking dully along... |
|
| Back to top |
|
Daemonic-Jackal
Phoenix
Joined: Feb 16, 2009
Age: 27
Posts: 581
Location: Salford, United Kingdom
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| technical_cat wrote: | .
I don't want to soend too much time with someone, I don't want a traditional live in relationship, I don't want to be practically or financially tangle up with anyone else |
He probably doesn't see the logic in living on his own for what he would consider to be just for the sake of it, especially if you'd never want yourself and him to live together either, he probably sees that as a contradiction. It certainly looks that way from an outside male perspective. It's quite possible that he sees you saying that he should find his own place to live is something more so for your convenience rather then his own.
Although I do agree that it sounds like his mother is over-controlling, that isn't your problem.
_________________
"Every cripple has his own way of walking. " — Brendan Behan
http://www.facebook.com/YentonianCarlos |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
