| Who do you love unconditionally? |
| Nobody, not even myself. |
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36% |
[ 12 ] |
| Only myself |
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12% |
[ 4 ] |
| Only my kids |
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6% |
[ 2 ] |
| Only my family |
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21% |
[ 7 ] |
| My family + my friends |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
| Only people of my nationality |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Everyone |
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21% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 33 |
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donnie_darko
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2009
Age: 23
Posts: 1794
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 Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| heavenlyabyss wrote: | I voted family but only because I know for a fact that my family is good.
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Isn't that kind of a condition right there? I could be reading you wrong, but aren't you implying that *if* they were bad, you would disown/hate them? |
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eigerpere
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 24, 2012
Posts: 371
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| My two cats. |
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Subotai
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 25, 2010
Posts: 1036
Location: 日本
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | I think I can only love my immediate family - namely my wife and daughter - unconditionally.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
What if your daughter murdered your wife, or your wife murdered your daughter, then went on a shooting rampage at the funeral and killed everyone else you cared about? Then drowned a bunch of puppies and burned an orphanage to the ground? Would you stop loving them THEN?
I mean, that's an absolutely insane ridiculous scenario and I'm sure they would never do that and it's a silly and possibly even offensive question, but hypothetically/philosophically, it's an important point. Since even the most unlikely, ridiculous-to-imagine condition, is still a condition. |
I know I reference this a lot but I truly believe the base roots of all motivation lie in survival instinct, and reproduction is an extension of survival.
So unless someone is mentally sick they will love themselves and their offspring unconditionally... which I guess makes it not 100% unconditional considering the factor of mental illness and probably others I haven't mentioned.
A spouse doesn't fit into the same category as self or offspring, but sex is a powerful bonding tool for an evolutionary reason.. the mother and father have to work together to ensure their shared offspring have the best chance possible of competing in the gene pool. |
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donnie_darko
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2009
Age: 23
Posts: 1794
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Subotai wrote: |
I know I reference this a lot but I truly believe the base roots of all motivation lie in survival instinct, and reproduction is an extension of survival.
So unless someone is mentally sick they will love themselves and their offspring unconditionally... which I guess makes it not 100% unconditional considering the factor of mental illness and probably others I haven't mentioned.
A spouse doesn't fit into the same category as self or offspring, but sex is a powerful bonding tool for an evolutionary reason.. the mother and father have to work together to ensure their shared offspring have the best chance possible of competing in the gene pool. |
Interesting. What is the term for that, biological determinism or something? I take it you are an atheist? So you think even in someone's kid murdered all their siblings, all their grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins, and their dad, then A-bombed an entire city, their mom would still love them because of this gene-survival instinct?
I mean, I wish I could believe that, and I kinda do. But it seems like my scenario proves unconditional love is probably quite rare, no? |
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heavenlyabyss
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 530
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | heavenlyabyss wrote: | I voted family but only because I know for a fact that my family is good.
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Isn't that kind of a condition right there? I could be reading you wrong, but aren't you implying that *if* they were bad, you would disown/hate them? |
Yes, I would disown them if I thought they were bad people. I would encourage anyone in an abusive household to do the same.
So yes you have a point. I guess I don't believe in unconditional love. |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12728
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | I think I can only love my immediate family - namely my wife and daughter - unconditionally.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
What if your daughter murdered your wife, or your wife murdered your daughter, then went on a shooting rampage at the funeral and killed everyone else you cared about? Then drowned a bunch of puppies and burned an orphanage to the ground? Would you stop loving them THEN?
I mean, that's an absolutely insane ridiculous scenario and I'm sure they would never do that and it's a silly and possibly even offensive question, but hypothetically/philosophically, it's an important point. Since even the most unlikely, ridiculous-to-imagine condition, is still a condition. |
Don't give my daughter any ideas!
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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Subotai
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 25, 2010
Posts: 1036
Location: 日本
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| donnie_darko wrote: |
Interesting. What is the term for that, biological determinism or something? I take it you are an atheist? So you think even in someone's kid murdered all their siblings, all their grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins, and their dad, then A-bombed an entire city, their mom would still love them because of this gene-survival instinct?
I mean, I wish I could believe that, and I kinda do. But it seems like my scenario proves unconditional love is probably quite rare, no? |
Not atheist, I'm agnostic but I don't think many people if any at all have the closest idea of the truth in those matters. We are insects on a universal scale, but that's another topic.
I think the survival instinct is the root of everything, but is perverted into different forms. The mind is capable of self elimination in the worst cases.. This is all based off my pet theories mind you, I've never officially studied evolutionary psychology or anything... |
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donnie_darko
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2009
Age: 23
Posts: 1794
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Kraichgauer wrote: | | donnie_darko wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | I think I can only love my immediate family - namely my wife and daughter - unconditionally.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
What if your daughter murdered your wife, or your wife murdered your daughter, then went on a shooting rampage at the funeral and killed everyone else you cared about? Then drowned a bunch of puppies and burned an orphanage to the ground? Would you stop loving them THEN?
I mean, that's an absolutely insane ridiculous scenario and I'm sure they would never do that and it's a silly and possibly even offensive question, but hypothetically/philosophically, it's an important point. Since even the most unlikely, ridiculous-to-imagine condition, is still a condition. |
Don't give my daughter any ideas!
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
lul |
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NarcissusSavage
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 03, 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 656
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I voted unconditional love for everyone. I can feel for people differing levels of this emotion, possibly even different flavors of it too. And I've never not loved anyone, even people I've known who have done some pretty messed up things.
I have hated people before too, but I still loved them as people. I know it’s kind of weird, but I don't think you can only feel one way about someone at a time.
_________________
I am Ignostic.
Go ahead and define god, with universal acceptance of said definition.
I'll wait.
Maybe you are too?
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AngelRho
Synclavier owner/operator
Joined: Jan 05, 2008
Posts: 3724
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| donnie_darko wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: | I think I can only love my immediate family - namely my wife and daughter - unconditionally.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
What if your daughter murdered your wife, or your wife murdered your daughter, then went on a shooting rampage at the funeral and killed everyone else you cared about? Then drowned a bunch of puppies and burned an orphanage to the ground? Would you stop loving them THEN?
I mean, that's an absolutely insane ridiculous scenario and I'm sure they would never do that and it's a silly and possibly even offensive question, but hypothetically/philosophically, it's an important point. Since even the most unlikely, ridiculous-to-imagine condition, is still a condition. |
I was going to quote someone else when I saw this...
I voted "everyone." I don't think anyone is going to love everyone all the time, but I think we should at least try. Even if something like the above happened, we should still love anyway.
Keep in mind that love is not the only driving force in human relations. Just because you love someone doesn't mean that you're obligated to withhold from them the consequences of their actions. Sometimes loving a "horrible" person means holding them accountable--for their own good as well as that of others. But, also, if you love everyone, I think you obligate yourself to making sure that all people have access to equal justice. While you don't stop loving someone who does evil, love for all people means choosing a path that guarantees the best outcome for the most people. In the grand scheme of things, sacrificing one person for the good of all others is the ultimate expression of love in justice.
Now, I do think mercy is a higher loving ideal than plain, cold, blind justice. The difference is striking a balance between the two. No matter how much someone might love a murderer, they can't change the fact that no amount of prison time or money will buy back a person's life. It does my heart good to hear stories about families who tell death-row inmates that they are forgiven. However, all the forgiveness in the world won't change what happened, so I believe that all murderers should be put to death and that they only have themselves to blame for their own execution. A victim's family or friends shouldn't stop loving the murderer, but they should also look to the greater good of all society in putting him to death. Any other act of harm one can commit against another can at least be repaid and the person who has been wronged is in a better position to just let it go.
In all practicality, I tend to do a lot of letting go. But I have a terribly difficult time dealing with things that affect my family, especially when a certain group of people at my church started picking on my wife. I let it be known that I was prepared to take certain people to court if I was ever able to prove to a judge who did it. My wife was also hit by a car last year and walked away with only a dull throb in her neck. She had no intention of taking anyone to court, but has unfortunately been forced to because the hospital is refusing to do the right paperwork, the driver's insurance company in not cooperating, the guy who hit her probably didn't even have insurance (I can't remember for sure if he did or not), and the hospital has turned my wife's account over for collection. Now my wife's lawyer is looking to sue not just for bills but for pain and suffering. I think that's ridiculous, but I understand why: what was done to us because of a deadbeat insurance agent is liable to get us in deeper trouble through a possible costly judgment brought by a bill collector trying to get something from us because of something that wasn't our fault. We don't WANT to sue, but what choice do we have? I don't think that means we love the other person less. But we do have the right at least to protect ourselves. |
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unduki
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 22, 2011
Posts: 651
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Unconditional love isn't something you hand out like candy. It just is. I was taught to love everyone regardless of themselves. I try and am largely successful. I love everyone. I generally think the world is a beautiful place and that all the people are beautiful creations.
There are failures in my system but since my system relies on human beings, I can't fault myself - human also. By failures, I mean that I do hate a few people. I don't hate lightly. For example, I hate my ex husband who, after cheating on me and leaving me with an STD and four children, he skipped out on debts and child support. Then... he contacted the children every now and for a few months and acted like he was going to really be their father - their dream come true. He got them to lie to me, to steal from me, to sabotage my business. It got to the point where I was afraid to sleep unless they were at school. He came around and dangled carrots and then disappeared for awhile and I tried to rebuild whatever trust he'd shaken - while running a fricken household full of children on my own, which is REALLY HARD for normal people.
I don't hate him for what he did to me but for what he did to them. They don't talk to me anymore because they've had it put in their heads that I was a bad mother. I remember being the cool mom who did all kinds of fun stuff with her happy, healthy kids, I even have pictures so I know it is a fact, but they've forgotten. He's feeding them his dried up carrots when what they need is me. One day he'll be gone and then what will they have?
I truly hate him in my deepest parts. Then I hate him for making me hate. It's an ugly burden.
But love, there's a free thing. I love everyone and everything, in general, because they are a creation of God.
_________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain. |
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donnie_darko
Phoenix
Joined: Nov 27, 2009
Age: 23
Posts: 1794
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you think it takes a special kind of person, or simply a shift in mindset, to love unconditionally? Or is it utterly impossible since humans are imperfect? |
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Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12728
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| unduki wrote: | Unconditional love isn't something you hand out like candy. It just is. I was taught to love everyone regardless of themselves. I try and am largely successful. I love everyone. I generally think the world is a beautiful place and that all the people are beautiful creations.
There are failures in my system but since my system relies on human beings, I can't fault myself - human also. By failures, I mean that I do hate a few people. I don't hate lightly. For example, I hate my ex husband who, after cheating on me and leaving me with an STD and four children, he skipped out on debts and child support. Then... he contacted the children every now and for a few months and acted like he was going to really be their father - their dream come true. He got them to lie to me, to steal from me, to sabotage my business. It got to the point where I was afraid to sleep unless they were at school. He came around and dangled carrots and then disappeared for awhile and I tried to rebuild whatever trust he'd shaken - while running a fricken household full of children on my own, which is REALLY HARD for normal people.
I don't hate him for what he did to me but for what he did to them. They don't talk to me anymore because they've had it put in their heads that I was a bad mother. I remember being the cool mom who did all kinds of fun stuff with her happy, healthy kids, I even have pictures so I know it is a fact, but they've forgotten. He's feeding them his dried up carrots when what they need is me. One day he'll be gone and then what will they have?
I truly hate him in my deepest parts. Then I hate him for making me hate. It's an ugly burden.
But love, there's a free thing. I love everyone and everything, in general, because they are a creation of God. |
I don't even know your ex, but I already hate him, too!
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
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CrazyCatLord
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 25, 2011
Posts: 2177
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| eigerpere wrote: | | My two cats. |
That would be my answer too  Although I'm not so sure about the "unconditional" part. If one of them started to ruin my furniture and pee on the carpets, I might love her a little less than before. |
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eigerpere
Deinonychus
Joined: Feb 24, 2012
Posts: 371
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| CrazyCatLord wrote: | | eigerpere wrote: | | My two cats. |
That would be my answer too Although I'm not so sure about the "unconditional" part. If one of them started to ruin my furniture and pee on the carpets, I might love her a little less than before. |
I wouldn't abandon and that's unconditional love. I would take them to the vet and diagnose a urinary tract infection which can cause that and if it was something more serious I might have to look at putting them to sleep if there wasn't anything else that could be done. That's an unlikely scenario unless there's a serious problem to start out with. My cats are very well treated and cared for and wouldn't do that unless there was something wrong physically. meh |
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