techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14835
Location: A beautiful vector among many
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| MXH wrote: |
Nobody likes to give up an advantage. Most differences between men and women are by what they learn. Most physical differences are directly related to bearing a child and only affect that in itself |
I'll give you that's a piece of it, not the whole though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
CrazyStarlightRedux
Fake Kiwi
Joined: Jan 14, 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 1028
Location: Manchester, UK.
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Why don't more women make the first move? |
|
|
| Daemonic-Jackal wrote: | In the UK at least February 29th is the one occasion out of every four years when supposed courtship cliches become reversed. It is seen as socially acceptable where women can propose to their boyfriends & girls can ask out guys without being scrutinised.
But surely this should be an option every day instead of once in 1461 days.
So why don't more women make the first move? Especially those who regularly claim there are no decent guys out there but continuously reject every offer they receive (i.e basically assuming anyone who shows interest isn't good enough for them and then they wonder why they're constantly single) surely they would be doing themselves a favour by pursuing the men that they actually do like? It should be remembered men are not mind readers, we can't always tell if somebody likes us.
Or to look at it from another angle if Lesbian women can manage to make the first move on those they like, then why can't heterosexual women do the same?
Afterall this is the 21st century, we're suppose to be living in a much more liberal and equal society, traditional gender roles being reversed should not been seen as an issue anymore and if all things are meant to equal then surely it isn't fair that it should always be the guy who has to be making all of the effort.
Discuss. |
Very true.
Although maybe they like not asking guys out in order to stick to tradition?
If that is the case, we may as well become sexist again to prove a point so they can't moan if they can't get a BF despite not trying to make the first move.
Seriously though, I do find it strange...even girls who genuinely like the guy don't try to pursue anything from it (maybe a fear of the friend zone). |
|
| Back to top |
|
Chronos
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 23, 2010
Posts: 5231
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| myth wrote: | ^ I completely agree with that. Any woman who claims she wants equality but still expects men to ask her out and pay for dates doesn't really want equality. She wants favortism. Equal rights with extra perks.
Upperhands and power games is not something I've ever really comprehended. I guess I can see why they wouldn't want to give it up. But it still makes them jerks, imo. |
There are a few innate inequalities amongst the sexes, that cannot be equalized. Men will always be physically stronger, on average, and women will likely always be the one to carry the child to term.
Men and women will likely, in general, continue to have a different order of priorities when it comes to romantic relationships.
When I think of the women's liberation movement, I think of women striving for equality in the sense of being perceived as an intellectual equal. Women getting equal pay for equal work, and so on. And I think of this in the context of the history of the treatment and perceptions of women in western society, and sometimes previous societies.
When I think of young boys being told to "treat women with respect" however, I do not envision this to mean treat women special, as if they should be kept on a pedestal. I take this phrase as intended to mean that women should be treated as intellectual equals. Unfortunately I think too many misunderstood this to mean treat women special, and breeds false expectations of how women should act in return.
I believe both sexes should treat each other with respect and regard each other more or less as intellectual equals. I don't have a problem with women approaching men, or approaching them myself, but that does not change that fact that many women won't do this. However, when put in it's socio-historic context, I don't think it's fair to be upset with women who will not approach men. Nor is it fair to be jealous of men who got women because they approached them.
Concerning holding doors and paying for dates, I have no reservations about each party paying for their own meal. In fact I prefer to pay for my own meal when I can as I do not like being a burden on others. Concerning holding doors, I do not expect men to hold doors for me any more than I expect anyone else to hold a door for me. I thank those who do hold doors for me and I routinely hold doors for anyone entering a building behind me. However many men get somewhat offended when women attempt to hold doors for them or move to open a door themselves when he was going to do it.
And then there are the things we cannot equalize. As the sex that is blessed with greater physical strength, I believe men have an obligation to aid those who are not as physically strong as they are in emergency situations, when feasible. This includes the elderly, women, and children. Likewise, women are also expected to aid those who are not as physically strong as they are, but it's unlikely a man would fall into this category.
I also believe women have certain responsibilities to men in certain situations, but I do not have enough time to elaborate on that at the moment. I will do so later. |
|
| Back to top |
|
MXH
TomCat
Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 12494
Location: Here i stand and face the rain
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | MXH wrote: |
Nobody likes to give up an advantage. Most differences between men and women are by what they learn. Most physical differences are directly related to bearing a child and only affect that in itself |
I'll give you that's a piece of it, not the whole though. |
Ive never claimed it to be the whole. But its a significant amount for sure |
|
| Back to top |
|
The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9356
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chronos wrote: | | myth wrote: | ^ I completely agree with that. Any woman who claims she wants equality but still expects men to ask her out and pay for dates doesn't really want equality. She wants favortism. Equal rights with extra perks.
Upperhands and power games is not something I've ever really comprehended. I guess I can see why they wouldn't want to give it up. But it still makes them jerks, imo. |
There are a few innate inequalities amongst the sexes, that cannot be equalized. Men will always be physically stronger, on average, and women will likely always be the one to carry the child to term.
Men and women will likely, in general, continue to have a different order of priorities when it comes to romantic relationships.
When I think of the women's liberation movement, I think of women striving for equality in the sense of being perceived as an intellectual equal. Women getting equal pay for equal work, and so on. And I think of this in the context of the history of the treatment and perceptions of women in western society, and sometimes previous societies.
When I think of young boys being told to "treat women with respect" however, I do not envision this to mean treat women special, as if they should be kept on a pedestal. I take this phrase as intended to mean that women should be treated as intellectual equals. Unfortunately I think too many misunderstood this to mean treat women special, and breeds false expectations of how women should act in return.
I believe both sexes should treat each other with respect and regard each other more or less as intellectual equals. I don't have a problem with women approaching men, or approaching them myself, but that does not change that fact that many women won't do this. However, when put in it's socio-historic context, I don't think it's fair to be upset with women who will not approach men. Nor is it fair to be jealous of men who got women because they approached them.
Concerning holding doors and paying for dates, I have no reservations about each party paying for their own meal. In fact I prefer to pay for my own meal when I can as I do not like being a burden on others. Concerning holding doors, I do not expect men to hold doors for me any more than I expect anyone else to hold a door for me. I thank those who do hold doors for me and I routinely hold doors for anyone entering a building behind me. However many men get somewhat offended when women attempt to hold doors for them or move to open a door themselves when he was going to do it.
And then there are the things we cannot equalize. As the sex that is blessed with greater physical strength, I believe men have an obligation to aid those who are not as physically strong as they are in emergency situations, when feasible. This includes the elderly, women, and children. Likewise, women are also expected to aid those who are not as physically strong as they are, but it's unlikely a man would fall into this category.
I also believe women have certain responsibilities to men in certain situations, but I do not have enough time to elaborate on that at the moment. I will do so later. |
and men will always be the cheapest dispensable tools by governments/rulers in the times of war. |
|
| Back to top |
|
techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14835
Location: A beautiful vector among many
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
First, complements: Chronos, myth, you're both ace on this topic. Thought I should make sure I shared that since there's a thread going around that claims you didn't already just 'know' that I thought that. 
| Chronos wrote: |
Concerning holding doors and paying for dates, I have no reservations about each party paying for their own meal. In fact I prefer to pay for my own meal when I can as I do not like being a burden on others. Concerning holding doors, I do not expect men to hold doors for me any more than I expect anyone else to hold a door for me. I thank those who do hold doors for me and I routinely hold doors for anyone entering a building behind me. However many men get somewhat offended when women attempt to hold doors for them or move to open a door themselves when he was going to do it. |
I think a lot of times women are still stuck between wanting equality and then having lots of people around them laddel out tautologies about how a quality man will still pay, that if he doesn't its a sign of x, y, or z (comparable to 'if he won't buy a big diamond') so I'd figure women - as much as guys these days, get torn between being their best selves and modern but also hope they don't get played for suckers by it.
It seems like the best psychological compromise I've found, at least what seems to sort of short-cut that mechanism, is rather than 'splitting' pay on separate checks - which just feels cheap and it seems like the topic of money coming up has sort of a raunchy and off-putting vibe on its own - just trade off. If its a two part date, like dinner and a movie or dinner and a museum one buys for both on dinner, the other buys for both on the movie tickets or the museum tickets. I like to think of it as the 'buying rounds' solution. 
| Chronos wrote: | And then there are the things we cannot equalize. As the sex that is blessed with greater physical strength, I believe men have an obligation to aid those who are not as physically strong as they are in emergency situations, when feasible. This includes the elderly, women, and children. Likewise, women are also expected to aid those who are not as physically strong as they are, but it's unlikely a man would fall into this category.
I also believe women have certain responsibilities to men in certain situations, but I do not have enough time to elaborate on that at the moment. I will do so later. |
Exactly what I think.
and I can think of something off the top of my head that a woman should interject on for starters. Don't let him leave the house wearing sweatpants or blue jeans with a bright orange shirt. |
|
| Back to top |
|
techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14835
Location: A beautiful vector among many
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The_Face_of_Boo wrote: |
and men will always be the cheapest dispensable tools by governments/rulers in the times of war. |
I'm thinking AI threatens to make us obsolete there as well, what with the HR costs such as medical benefits and lifetime pay as well as college funding for vets - especially for those who come back disabled. |
|
| Back to top |
|
The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9356
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | The_Face_of_Boo wrote: |
and men will always be the cheapest dispensable tools by governments/rulers in the times of war. |
I'm thinking AI threatens to make us obsolete there as well, what with the HR costs such as medical benefits and lifetime pay as well as college funding for vets - especially for those who come back disabled. |
hahahaahhaha
Americans....they think that the whole world is blessed like their country.
Man, soldiers in the third-world are seen as nothing but rats to sacrifice with.
Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:02 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
techstepgenr8tion
that chatty American
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 14835
Location: A beautiful vector among many
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fair. |
|
| Back to top |
|
CrazyStarlightRedux
Fake Kiwi
Joined: Jan 14, 2012
Age: 23
Posts: 1028
Location: Manchester, UK.
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The_Face_of_Boo wrote: |
and men will always be the cheapest dispensable tools by governments/rulers in the times of war. |
And men will be created by the Chinese population in their place, so it's all good.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
Chronos
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 23, 2010
Posts: 5231
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The_Face_of_Boo wrote: | | Chronos wrote: | | myth wrote: | ^ I completely agree with that. Any woman who claims she wants equality but still expects men to ask her out and pay for dates doesn't really want equality. She wants favortism. Equal rights with extra perks.
Upperhands and power games is not something I've ever really comprehended. I guess I can see why they wouldn't want to give it up. But it still makes them jerks, imo. |
There are a few innate inequalities amongst the sexes, that cannot be equalized. Men will always be physically stronger, on average, and women will likely always be the one to carry the child to term.
Men and women will likely, in general, continue to have a different order of priorities when it comes to romantic relationships.
When I think of the women's liberation movement, I think of women striving for equality in the sense of being perceived as an intellectual equal. Women getting equal pay for equal work, and so on. And I think of this in the context of the history of the treatment and perceptions of women in western society, and sometimes previous societies.
When I think of young boys being told to "treat women with respect" however, I do not envision this to mean treat women special, as if they should be kept on a pedestal. I take this phrase as intended to mean that women should be treated as intellectual equals. Unfortunately I think too many misunderstood this to mean treat women special, and breeds false expectations of how women should act in return.
I believe both sexes should treat each other with respect and regard each other more or less as intellectual equals. I don't have a problem with women approaching men, or approaching them myself, but that does not change that fact that many women won't do this. However, when put in it's socio-historic context, I don't think it's fair to be upset with women who will not approach men. Nor is it fair to be jealous of men who got women because they approached them.
Concerning holding doors and paying for dates, I have no reservations about each party paying for their own meal. In fact I prefer to pay for my own meal when I can as I do not like being a burden on others. Concerning holding doors, I do not expect men to hold doors for me any more than I expect anyone else to hold a door for me. I thank those who do hold doors for me and I routinely hold doors for anyone entering a building behind me. However many men get somewhat offended when women attempt to hold doors for them or move to open a door themselves when he was going to do it.
And then there are the things we cannot equalize. As the sex that is blessed with greater physical strength, I believe men have an obligation to aid those who are not as physically strong as they are in emergency situations, when feasible. This includes the elderly, women, and children. Likewise, women are also expected to aid those who are not as physically strong as they are, but it's unlikely a man would fall into this category.
I also believe women have certain responsibilities to men in certain situations, but I do not have enough time to elaborate on that at the moment. I will do so later. |
and men will always be the cheapest dispensable tools by governments/rulers in the times of war. |
That's an entirely different subject beyond the control of women (some of whom would like to be able to fill military combat positions). |
|
| Back to top |
|
Chronos
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 23, 2010
Posts: 5231
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Responsibilities I believe women have in this society (some men as well of course)
Women have a responsibility to respect men and their emotions. Just because someone is physically strong doesn't they are any mentally or psychologically stronger than someone who is not.
Women are often tasked with the responsibility of being the primary child care giver.
I believe in emergency situations, when men are busy trying to physically protect/rescue others, women have a responsibility to tend to every thing else, whether this be looking after children and the elderly who have already been rescued, or assisting injured individuals, and so on.
If a woman has chosen to be a home maker, then she has a responsibility to tend to domestic things while her husband or partner is at work. This goes for men who have chosen to be home makers as well.
I think this sums things up relatively well.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
XFilesGeek
Pretentiousness personified.
Joined: Jul 25, 2010
Posts: 1792
Location: The Oort Cloud
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The_Face_of_Boo wrote: | | techstepgenr8tion wrote: | | The_Face_of_Boo wrote: |
and men will always be the cheapest dispensable tools by governments/rulers in the times of war. |
I'm thinking AI threatens to make us obsolete there as well, what with the HR costs such as medical benefits and lifetime pay as well as college funding for vets - especially for those who come back disabled. |
hahahaahhaha
Americans....they think that the whole world is blessed like their country.
Man, soldiers in the third-world are seen as nothing but rats to sacrifice with. |
Everyone gets treated like sh!t in third world countries.
It's why they're third world countries.
_________________
"If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced." |
|
| Back to top |
|
AliTatt
Raven
Joined: Jan 30, 2012
Posts: 124
Location: Ontario Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| smudge wrote: |
Rabbitts: It may be an ego boost, but it still puts men off when they're asked out. They end up expressing a disinterest in you, because the chase is over for them. This has happened lots to me and other women I've spoken to. In my experience, a man will hint at me madly that he likes me, and this can happen for some time. Then when I make a move - he's immediately disinterested. It's about people wanting what they can't have. |
This is what happened, more or less, for me and my first "boyfriend" (Or ignorance relationship). He repeatedly hinted that he liked me, etc, then I asked him out and he fled after saying yes o_O
I know, veeery late joining this chat, but just wanted my two cents there xD
_________________
Absolutely and truly in love <33
~http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4364334.html - intro to me (: ~
Your Aspie score: 158 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 56 of 200
You are very likely an Aspie |
|
| Back to top |
|
The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9356
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Chronos wrote: | | The_Face_of_Boo wrote: | | Chronos wrote: | | myth wrote: | ^ I completely agree with that. Any woman who claims she wants equality but still expects men to ask her out and pay for dates doesn't really want equality. She wants favortism. Equal rights with extra perks.
Upperhands and power games is not something I've ever really comprehended. I guess I can see why they wouldn't want to give it up. But it still makes them jerks, imo. |
There are a few innate inequalities amongst the sexes, that cannot be equalized. Men will always be physically stronger, on average, and women will likely always be the one to carry the child to term.
Men and women will likely, in general, continue to have a different order of priorities when it comes to romantic relationships.
When I think of the women's liberation movement, I think of women striving for equality in the sense of being perceived as an intellectual equal. Women getting equal pay for equal work, and so on. And I think of this in the context of the history of the treatment and perceptions of women in western society, and sometimes previous societies.
When I think of young boys being told to "treat women with respect" however, I do not envision this to mean treat women special, as if they should be kept on a pedestal. I take this phrase as intended to mean that women should be treated as intellectual equals. Unfortunately I think too many misunderstood this to mean treat women special, and breeds false expectations of how women should act in return.
I believe both sexes should treat each other with respect and regard each other more or less as intellectual equals. I don't have a problem with women approaching men, or approaching them myself, but that does not change that fact that many women won't do this. However, when put in it's socio-historic context, I don't think it's fair to be upset with women who will not approach men. Nor is it fair to be jealous of men who got women because they approached them.
Concerning holding doors and paying for dates, I have no reservations about each party paying for their own meal. In fact I prefer to pay for my own meal when I can as I do not like being a burden on others. Concerning holding doors, I do not expect men to hold doors for me any more than I expect anyone else to hold a door for me. I thank those who do hold doors for me and I routinely hold doors for anyone entering a building behind me. However many men get somewhat offended when women attempt to hold doors for them or move to open a door themselves when he was going to do it.
And then there are the things we cannot equalize. As the sex that is blessed with greater physical strength, I believe men have an obligation to aid those who are not as physically strong as they are in emergency situations, when feasible. This includes the elderly, women, and children. Likewise, women are also expected to aid those who are not as physically strong as they are, but it's unlikely a man would fall into this category.
I also believe women have certain responsibilities to men in certain situations, but I do not have enough time to elaborate on that at the moment. I will do so later. |
and men will always be the cheapest dispensable tools by governments/rulers in the times of war. |
That's an entirely different subject beyond the control of women (some of whom would like to be able to fill military combat positions). |
Men's worst enemies/torturers are.....men. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
