Aharon
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 27, 2011
Posts: 632
Location: Kansas
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 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: |
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If you read Temple Grandin's book, Animals Make Us Human, it covers this. 15 social characteristics of aggressive and submissive behaviors demonstrated in wolves were watched for in domestic dogs. Dogs that looked more "wolfish" such as malamutes or huskies tended to rate the highest, with poodles, terriers, and Labradors rating among having the fewest. Some dogs, like german shepherds, didnt score as well in spite of their wolfish appearance.
Overall though, the less wolfish and more "puppyish" a dog looks, the less of these wolf social attributes it's likely to have. So statistically a random mutt would probably be likely to possess more of the attributes than a Jack Russell, but would be less likely to score as high as a malamute.
That was a great book and I highly recommend the chapter on dogs to anyone interested in dogs. In terms of how this applies to humans, I don't think that has been determined yet. If autism can be linked to a gene or genes, and there's a combination of racial genes that is most likely to cause autism, then you'd have a case. Till then, at least in dogs, a mutt genetically closer to a wolf would be less "dogtistic" then a purebred furthest from them.
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If aliens come to get me, it won't be an abduction, but a rescue operation. |
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bnky
Velociraptor
Joined: Nov 20, 2011
Posts: 479
Location: Kent, England
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| soozzi wrote: | | Do we know of any culture, society or race where autism spectrum disorders don't exist or exist in a markedly less way? This cannot include places where they are by default under-diagnosed. |
The studies all seem to say it's spread evenly across the planet and ethnicity. Sounds like this is a wild guess though, as some countries diagnose far less of their population to have ASDs, and the studies almost certainly wouldn't have assessed population incidence in "lost tribes" in remote areas.
I thought a genetic hereditary link had been established but, while being more than 66%, it doesn't seem to account for all cases of ASD. So does autism just pop up out of nowhere, or is there a recessive gene hiding in everyone inherited from some ancient ancestor? |
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naturalplastic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2010
Posts: 4635
Location: mid atlantic coast usa
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Ellingtonia wrote: | I think it's saying that mixed breed dogs are less wanted as pets, and so are more often abandoned and end up in shelters. It's only when they get to the shelters that they develop behavioural problems from their tough situation. These problems are usually fear/anxiety related and are not related to autism.
On another note, pure breed dogs are far more likely to have physical health problems, such as hip dysplasia, due to generations of inbreeding. |
Yes he misread the article and came to the ass-backward conclusion that purebred dogs are MORE natural than mixed breeds when in fact the opposite is the case. Mixed breeds are more like ancestrial wolves wereas purebreds are - just that- artificially bred for physical traits (often leading to physical problems) for generations. Purebreds are also bread for temperament and behavior so they would more neuro diverse than mutts and not less so. |
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Ohiophile
Tufted Titmouse
Joined: Sep 24, 2011
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok well I will turn it around then and ask, could the opposite cause autism? In other words could people who are too genetically similar increase the risk of autism in their children? For example, two people who are shy, social awkward, and anxious marry and have kids. Could this encourage these recessive traits and produce children who are so socially inept that they are deemed "autistic"? |
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lostgirl1986
There's a party in my head.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 26
Posts: 6284
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmm, I'm not sure. I can tell you that I'm half Dutch and half Filipino and I was born and grew up in Canada. |
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Venerab1e1
Toucan
Joined: Mar 07, 2011
Age: 27
Posts: 278
Location: Kentucky USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm mixed Scandinavian/German/American Indian but I have no idea if that has anything to do with me having autism or not. |
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TheSunAlsoRises
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 02, 2011
Posts: 1039
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| bnky wrote: | | soozzi wrote: | | Do we know of any culture, society or race where autism spectrum disorders don't exist or exist in a markedly less way? This cannot include places where they are by default under-diagnosed. |
The studies all seem to say it's spread evenly across the planet and ethnicity. Sounds like this is a wild guess though, as some countries diagnose far less of their population to have ASDs, and the studies almost certainly wouldn't have assessed population incidence in "lost tribes" in remote areas.
I thought a genetic hereditary link had been established but, while being more than 66%, it doesn't seem to account for all cases of ASD. So does autism just pop up out of nowhere, or is there a recessive gene hiding in everyone inherited from some ancient ancestor? |
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-study-shows-minority-toddlers-with-autism-are-more-delayed-than-affected-caucasian-peers-2012-02-21
I don't believe that it is equally distributed along the spectrum.
*just an opinion and should be taken as such.
TheSunAlsoRises
Last edited by TheSunAlsoRises on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lostgirl1986
There's a party in my head.
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Age: 26
Posts: 6284
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it just me or is it rare to see Asian children with disabilities...especially autism? I'm half Asian and half European and I just don't see too many Asian people with disabilities here and I've moved around a lot. I mean I have, but it's not common around here. |
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naturalplastic
Phoenix
Joined: Aug 27, 2010
Posts: 4635
Location: mid atlantic coast usa
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Ohiophile wrote: | | Ok well I will turn it around then and ask, could the opposite cause autism? In other words could people who are too genetically similar increase the risk of autism in their children? For example, two people who are shy, social awkward, and anxious marry and have kids. Could this encourage these recessive traits and produce children who are so socially inept that they are deemed "autistic"? |
Autism is probably linked to some extent to genes.
If two people with autistic tendencies marry and have kids then it wouldnt be surprising if the kids were on the autistic spectrum.
Indeed that was suggested back in the sixties: a therapist on the radio back then said he observed that the parents of autistic kids tend to be more focused on the internal than on the external and "maybe the child gets a double dose of that genetically". |
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TheSunAlsoRises
Phoenix
Joined: Dec 02, 2011
Posts: 1039
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| lostgirl1986 wrote: | | Is it just me or is it rare to see Asian children with disabilities...especially autism? I'm half Asian and half European and I just don't see too many Asian people with disabilities here and I've moved around a lot. I mean I have, but it's not common around here. |
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/09/health/research/09autism.html
TheSunAlsoRises |
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pokerface
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
Age: 46
Posts: 600
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Does ethnic diversity increase risk of Austism? |
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| Ohiophile wrote: | This may sound like a weird and politically incorrect question, but do you think that ethnic mixing could increase the risk of autism or aspergers syndrome in a society? I was reading this article about mixed breed dogs vs. pure breeds and I found one paragraph in the article interesting : The Great Debate: Are Mutts Healthier Than Purebreds?
| Quote: | Socialization Issues
If you buy a purebred pet, you’re probably getting one that’s 8 weeks of age. That’s when pups (and, arguably, kittens) are best capable of absorbing socialization cues that will stay with them for life.
Mixed breeds typically don’t have as many perks as their purebred counterparts on this score (they tend to end up in rescues and shelters more often), which is why they can suffer from a higher percentage of fear-based behavior problems. And that’s a big health care problem, considering the answer for many of these behavior issues is euthanasia. |
This got me wondering, does this same phenomenon happen in humans? If someone was a "mutt" with lets say a father who is Italian and mother who is Irish does that increase ones risk of autism, aspergers, or adhd? Might that person not pick up on social cues because they are a unique "breed" and have trouble understanding anyone else? In my opinion this could effect theory of mind because your ability to understand other people has something to do with the fact that your mind works the same way. If you grow up around people who are genetically dissimilar to you then you might have trouble understanding or relating to them and you might turn inward.
I am also not just referring to people of different nationalities or races, but really any kind of mixing of genetic qualities that could make someone dissimilar to the people they grow up around. For example, inheriting a unique set of personality traits could make it difficult for someone to relate others. Possible? If this were true we should see higher rates of autism in countries that are genetically and culturally diverse. Anyone have data on this? |
Total nonsense and not an interesting idea at all. Aspergers and autism in general are global phenomena. There are chinese aspies, african aspies, european ones you name it.
And besides, we are all mixed when it comes down to it. Genetic tests totally confirm that idea. You may think that you are purely white, african or asian but that is not even near the truth in most cases.
And now it's time for me to focus my attention on something else because posting in english is wearing me out. |
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