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hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
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Age: 41
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puddingmouse
exclamation mark!
Joined: Apr 25, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 7047
Location: Mega City 3
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Being correct is sexy.
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Vigilans
Orgasm Donor
Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Age: 24
Posts: 12092
Location: La belle province
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| AspieRogue wrote: | | Vigilans wrote: | | The term "feminist" tends to be used in a negative context when women aren't acting like doormats |
Spoken like a true male feminist sycophant. |
That's sad that you see it that way. "DERRRRRP you are a male who agrees with female equality you are therefore a sycophant"
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monkees4va
Deinonychus
Joined: Sep 03, 2008
Posts: 397
Location: scotland! ^.^
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| TheDarkMage wrote: |
women SHOULD have equal rights.
However, in britain things have defintely gone wrong. instead of women becoming equal, men are being abused at every opportunity. adverts on TV always show the clever woman and the idiot male. Women can have "women only" things but for men this is no longer allowed. Fathers can not see their kids because the law is ALWAYS in favour of women. men ARE demonised at every opportunity.
MOST of the time, women here have the attitude that they only want equal rights when it suits them. this really irritates me. they want equal rights but at the same time they EXPECT men to pay for everything, they expect men to still do all the men things AND the women things.
again, just to make sure that everyone has heard - I am all for equal rights. |
For saying you are for equal rights you have a very shallow view of women. Ever occurred to you that, just like all men are not chauvinistic douchebags, not all women are manipulative airheads?
First off, I laughed with the adverts. You say you live in Britain. What about the Lynx adverts? Modelling agencies? Make up adverts? Bingo adverts? I could go on. It all promotes women as a very self-centred ideal-we're either disposable sex objects or a 'mother' figure. I see ten times more sexist adverts towards women than men in any one day.
It's not MOST of the time. All the women I know agree that this is the 21st century, and dates, debts and whatever are split 50/50. If as a sex we're fighting for equal opportunity we'd better buck up and pay our way. We wouldn't complain so much if pay rates were equal. What a society we live in, where the only industries women can outperform the men money wise is pornography or modelling. And even then males have a longer career span in these areas.
No, men are not demonised at every opportunity. Have you not read the new courts legislation for children issues? It was originally drafted for homosexual couples, but also applies to heterosexual. Sex has nothing to do with it now. It's based on who was already the main child carer, what's best for the child and (lastly) financial reasons. Considering in most households it is the mother who is the main caregiver; that is why females tend to win these cases.
Of course we still want to do women things-just because we fight for equal rights doesn't mean we want to lose our femininity. Just as I believe men can be feminine, women can be masculine. There aren’t just the two gender identities anymore. I hope you don’t demonise your daughter the way you seem to women as a gender. You seem to think we’re all throeing bras in the air and stamping our feet when we don’t get our way.
To anyone reading, no I am not a feminist. I dislike the term. I fight for equal rights for both sexes. I volunteer within domestic abuse sectors, and my project at the moment is to help both homosexual and straight men come out about what they’re experiencing. Domestic abuse isn’t just a women’s area.
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TheDarkMage
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 418
Location: united kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| monkees4va wrote: | | For saying you are for equal rights you have a very shallow view of women. |
yes - maybe you are right. but i have only my own personal life experience to go off and that is how my life experience has taught me.
| monkees4va wrote: |
First off, I laughed with the adverts. You say you live in Britain. What about the Lynx adverts? Modelling agencies? Make up adverts? Bingo adverts? I could go on. It all promotes women as a very self-centred ideal-we're either disposable sex objects or a 'mother' figure. |
those are the same adverts which mock men. except makeup and bingo obviously but these have their own counterparts.
| monkees4va wrote: |
It's not MOST of the time. All the women I know agree that this is the 21st century, and dates, debts and whatever are split 50/50. If as a sex we're fighting for equal opportunity we'd better buck up and pay our way. We wouldn't complain so much if pay rates were equal. |
All the women you know are not the women i know. however i will say that scottish women do seem to be more stronger minded than english women.
there is no gender pay gap.
| monkees4va wrote: |
What a society we live in, where the only industries women can outperform the men money wise is pornography or modelling. And even then males have a longer career span in these areas. |
sorry but the big earning males you talk about are an extreme minority. the other 99% of us have to do with the same that women get.
| monkees4va wrote: |
No, men are not demonised at every opportunity. |
yes they are.
| monkees4va wrote: | | Have you not read the new courts legislation for children issues? It was originally drafted for homosexual couples, but also applies to heterosexual. Sex has nothing to do with it now. It's based on who was already the main child carer, what's best for the child and (lastly) financial reasons. Considering in most households it is the mother who is the main caregiver; that is why females tend to win these cases. |
...and yet these same women have absolute power over the father if they so choose. they can choose whenever they like to stop contact, to extort money, to pull the strings.
| monkees4va wrote: |
Of course we still want to do women things-just because we fight for equal rights doesn't mean we want to lose our femininity. Just as I believe men can be feminine, women can be masculine. There aren’t just the two gender identities anymore. |
agreed.
| monkees4va wrote: |
I hope you don’t demonise your daughter the way you seem to women as a gender. You seem to think we’re all throeing bras in the air and stamping our feet when we don’t get our way. |
i educate my daughter to stay away from feminism. i educate her about what is right and what is wrong. i educate her on how to accept people who are different and how to stay away from people who are not nice. it works as well. when somebody in the class is upset or has been picked on, she is the first to go and look after them.
| monkees4va wrote: |
To anyone reading, no I am not a feminist. I dislike the term. I fight for equal rights for both sexes. I volunteer within domestic abuse sectors, and my project at the moment is to help both homosexual and straight men come out about what they’re experiencing. Domestic abuse isn’t just a women’s area. |
great work but im sorry the domestic abuse industry is one of the worst offenders for anti-male propaganda.
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myth
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 17, 2011
Age: 27
Posts: 707
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:33 am Post subject: |
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I have not read the entire thread so I apologise if some of my points have been addressed. The following is simply my take on the subject of gender discrminiation in general:
I believe in "equal" "rights" (although both terms "equal" and "rights" are somewhat sketchy and may need to be clearly defined within this context) and dislike the term "feminism." If it were about equality, why would it be called that?? The term itself seems to indicate favortism towards females. (Yes, I read about how it's just a carry over from when they were fighting for women's right to vote. If, then, you are not still fighting for women's rights specifically, I suggest you use a different label.)
I also agree with the "too much anti-male propoganda" group. I think that Western society currently favors females and ends up giving them special treatment, not equality. Every sitcom and many comercials display the women controlling their male partners with threats of witholding sex as well as being smarter, more mature, and more responsible than their male partners. Granted, females are oftentimes portrayed as unreasonable or crazy as well but it is rare for them to appear stupid or controlled by a powerful spouse. Much rarer than the inverse. I don't consider "sex objects" to be derrogatory as this is where most of their power comes from cultrurally. So a woman shown to be very attractive and desirable is one that is powerful and in control of the stereotypical male.
I have seen a few examples of an abusive male who physically damages his female partner but those examples are extreme and the male is (rightly) vilified. Compare this to the hundreds of examples I have seen in the media and in real life of females slapping males in the face who they simply considered rude or disrespectful and this is accepted. What would happen if a male did that to a female? "Don't you talk that way to me!" *slap!* Public outrage. This view is somewhat reasonable because females are usually physically weaker and a male usually is capable of doing significant damage to a female if he so chooses. However, I don't think a female who physically attacks a male should be condoned in any form, nor the other way around. Females should not take advantage of their protective status in this manner. The fact that you are physically weaker is exactly why you shouldn't pick physical fights. You would only do so if you were confident there was no way that person was going to retaliate against you.
Not to mention the vast snarky little comments by female relatives and co-workers I hear on an almost daily basis where they unfavorably comment on their spouse and cackle and agree with eachother on how usless men are. Do men have these sorts of conversations about women? They might, I haven't heard any but they are unlikely to engage in such behavior in my presense even though I would not be upset at them for it. The women referenced above do say this in front of males, though, because (again) of their protected status. In my experience, men are more likely to laugh things off. God forbid you offend a woman.
Just a few examples of the attitude, not intended to be a synopsis of the problem at large. I do not in any way consider society to be male-dominated nor my own life. I don't generally see things in terms of gender until presented with a blatant double-standard which is usually female-favoring based on my observations. For the most part, I think things are generally equal with occasional isolated discrimination on both sides and society as a whole in general favoring women in a few key areas.
*edit* Been scanning through the previous pages a little bit and I seem to laregly agree with Tequila.
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Last edited by myth on Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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puddingmouse
exclamation mark!
Joined: Apr 25, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 7047
Location: Mega City 3
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| monkees4va wrote: | You seem to think we’re all throeing bras in the air and stamping our feet when we don’t get our way.
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I've gotta try that sometime.
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puddingmouse
exclamation mark!
Joined: Apr 25, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 7047
Location: Mega City 3
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| TheDarkMage wrote: |
sorry but the big earning males you talk about are an extreme minority. the other 99% of us have to do with the same that women get. |
That's only true if you work for a big business. Try working for a family-run operation.
The men almost certainly got paid more for the same job at the last place I worked.
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Tequila
Trust the people!
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 26043
Location: Lancashire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| myth wrote: | | *edit* Been scanning through the previous pages a little bit and I seem to laregly agree with Tequila. |
Thank you.
It's every bit as unpleasant listening to misogynistic men talk about women in disgusting, stomach-churning ways and use nasty slurs (some of the boards I use are shocking for this) as it is sitting with a group of with vicious middle-aged women regaling us with how all men are useless and being horrible about other people's husbands and sons (and sometimes even their own), even going so far as to make bullying sexual taunts.
Neither is nice to be around. |
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puddingmouse
exclamation mark!
Joined: Apr 25, 2010
Age: 26
Posts: 7047
Location: Mega City 3
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| myth wrote: | | I don't consider "sex objects" to be derrogatory as this is where most of their power comes from cultrurally. So a woman shown to be very attractive and desirable is one that is powerful and in control of the stereotypical male. |
Female 'power' from being a 'sex object' (I shudder saying that phrase), can only exist in a patriarchal system.
I really want to divorce sex from power.
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The-Raven
Phoenix
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Joined: May 01, 2011
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| myth wrote: |
*edit* Been scanning through the previous pages a little bit and I seem to laregly agree with Tequila. |
perhaps you should see your Dr about that?  |
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myth
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 17, 2011
Age: 27
Posts: 707
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| The-Raven wrote: | | myth wrote: |
*edit* Been scanning through the previous pages a little bit and I seem to laregly agree with Tequila. |
perhaps you should see your Dr about that? |
That seems somewhat insulting unless I misinterpreted your statement?
Re: other points above: I have responses I will just have to wait until after work to reply. I'm up to my ears right now and I'm here anyway because I am interested in the disucssion but I'm going to have to try very hard not to come back until the end of the day.
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TheDarkMage
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 418
Location: united kingdom
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| myth wrote: | I have not read the entire thread so I apologise if some of my points have been addressed. The following is simply my take on the subject of gender discrminiation in general:
I believe in "equal" "rights" (although both terms "equal" and "rights" are somewhat sketchy and may need to be clearly defined within this context) and dislike the term "feminism." If it were about equality, why would it be called that?? The term itself seems to indicate favortism towards females. (Yes, I read about how it's just a carry over from when they were fighting for women's right to vote. If, then, you are not still fighting for women's rights specifically, I suggest you use a different label.)
I also agree with the "too much anti-male propoganda" group. I think that Western society currently favors females and ends up giving them special treatment, not equality. Every sitcom and many comercials display the women controlling their male partners with threats of witholding sex as well as being smarter, more mature, and more responsible than their male partners. Granted, females are oftentimes portrayed as unreasonable or crazy as well but it is rare for them to appear stupid or controlled by a powerful spouse. Much rarer than the inverse. I don't consider "sex objects" to be derrogatory as this is where most of their power comes from cultrurally. So a woman shown to be very attractive and desirable is one that is powerful and in control of the stereotypical male.
I have seen a few examples of an abusive male who physically damages his female partner but those examples are extreme and the male is (rightly) vilified. Compare this to the hundreds of examples I have seen in the media and in real life of females slapping males in the face who they simply considered rude or disrespectful and this is accepted. What would happen if a male did that to a female? "Don't you talk that way to me!" *slap!* Public outrage. This view is somewhat reasonable because females are usually physically weaker and a male usually is capable of doing significant damage to a female if he so chooses. However, I don't think a female who physically attacks a male should be condoned in any form, nor the other way around. Females should not take advantage of their protective status in this manner. The fact that you are physically weaker is exactly why you shouldn't pick physical fights. You would only do so if you were confident there was no way that person was going to retaliate against you.
Not to mention the vast snarky little comments by female relatives and co-workers I hear on an almost daily basis where they unfavorably comment on their spouse and cackle and agree with eachother on how usless men are. Do men have these sorts of conversations about women? They might, I haven't heard any but they are unlikely to engage in such behavior in my presense even though I would not be upset at them for it. The women referenced above do say this in front of males, though, because (again) of their protected status. In my experience, men are more likely to laugh things off. God forbid you offend a woman.
Just a few examples of the attitude, not intended to be a synopsis of the problem at large. I do not in any way consider society to be male-dominated nor my own life. I don't generally see things in terms of gender until presented with a blatant double-standard which is usually female-favoring based on my observations. For the most part, I think things are generally equal with occasional isolated discrimination on both sides and society as a whole in general favoring women in a few key areas.
*edit* Been scanning through the previous pages a little bit and I seem to laregly agree with Tequila. |
now thats how to post a view. brilliant. agree 110%. i wish i could have posted that.
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The-Raven
Phoenix
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Joined: May 01, 2011
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| myth wrote: | | The-Raven wrote: | | myth wrote: |
*edit* Been scanning through the previous pages a little bit and I seem to laregly agree with Tequila. |
perhaps you should see your Dr about that? |
That seems somewhat insulting unless I misinterpreted your statement?
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its supposed to be funny, hence the laughing face. |
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myth
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 17, 2011
Age: 27
Posts: 707
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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It being funny/laughing doesn't exclude it from being an insult. But very well, I will take it as a friendly/teasing jab.
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