Post 4481094 - (Getting the right mindset : The First step)

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Getting the right mindset : The First step

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Wrong Planet Autism Forum Index -> Love and Dating

ToadOfSteel
unlovable
Phoenix

Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Age: 25
Posts: 6716
Location: New Jersey

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:27 am Post subject:

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

ToadOfSteel wrote:

Wait, what happened? I thought Thom was one of the nice people on this forum... I'm not dissenting against wolfheart, like I said he always acts in good faith. So does Thom, which is why i'm fairly confused at this point as to why he's attacking me for disagreeing.

I'm trying a different approach. I want to get you angry. It's a form of tough love.

If you're convinced you're an abject failure and nothing good will ever come of it, then the only thing to do is give up. To embrace your uselessness and turn it into an art form. And the point is - you won't do it. No matter how much you declare your life hopeless, some bloody minded part of you won't give up.

This is exactly how (some) drug addicts and alcoholics turn their lives around. You can be nice to them forever and nothing will ever change, because they have no reason to change. Their lives have to get worse. Much worse. I'm talking loss of family and friends, of job, of home, of everything. If they don't reach rock bottom, they won't change. It's not love and compassion that brings them back, though it'll be needed in spades when they start coming back. That first step is anger. Anger at themselves, their addictions and the mess that their lives are in. Not everyone makes it to that stage, and some unfortunates decide to go the other way and quit in a more permanent fashion.

You're not (as far as I know) an alcoholic or drug addict. But the mental patterns are very similar. You're dependent on failure. You expect it, to the point that you don't know how to cope with success. You're subconsciously sabotaging your own efforts because part of you wants to fail. That is not going to change until you change it - and that means getting angry.

You could be a great guy if you let yourself. So could MXH, I'm pretty sure, though I've less to go on there. But all the loving kindness in the world isn't going to change you.

I'm afraid to get angry. Everytime I get angry, I lash out and hurt people that may actually care about me. That's why all my anger is directed inward... to avoid hurting others. I'm the failure, not my parents, not my family, not anyone else, so I'm the only one that should feel that failure...

I disagree on your "rock bottom comments" though... Love and compassion are what I need right now. Love and compassion are what allow me to feel confidence in myself. Love and compassion are what make life worth living. And I haven't truly felt either in years. My family doesn't have any to offer me, and my dream of establishing a family of my own has fallen flat on its face.

Quote:

My issue is that my life has been nothing but failure. Bitter, abysmal failure at that. It's not the kind of thing you can learn to like. I want to be successful, but success eludes me at every turn. Most people have some measure of success. I don't. You can only endure that so long before your outlook changes. You can't breed confidence from nothing.

No, you breed confidence from within. You are not nothing. You have skills and knowledge and personality and dreams and thoughts and a life. You can do pretty much anything - but you need to put the effort in. Perhaps you don't have many skills yet, but have confidence in the ones you do have. One of them is a skill at learning new skills and improving your existing ones. Do that, and you have more to be confident about.

Don't measure your success by other people. I learnt to tie my shoelaces at 16. I can bake some fantastic shortbread biscuits, and that's a success for me. I'm not declaring myself a failure because I'll never win Masterchef.

Everyone has capacity in one form or another. I won't disagree with you on that point. I can fix computers. I'm good at editing photos, video, and audio. So you don't see me saying that i have no value in those fields. The problem is i'm a failure in the field that actually matters: interacting with other people. I can't get a girlfriend. I can't maintain the friends I have, nor am I able to make new ones. Every time I open my mouth, something awkward comes out.

Thom_Fuleri
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Mar 08, 2010
Posts: 802
Location: Leicestershire, UK

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:11 am Post subject:

ToadOfSteel wrote:

Same here. Completely. Until about age 16 I was prone to lash out when under stress. I didn't usually hurt anyone besides myself - stuff got broken, but even in the middle of a meltdown I couldn't actually hit anyone. Not that they knew that, of course - it must have terrified them. And when the storm passed, I'd be an emotional wreck. I learnt to direct that anger inwards, developed a lot of self-hatred and developed a chronic depression that still hits me occasionally even now. There were times in my teenage years I'd think about suicide. Never got to the point of following up on them, but considering the various ways it could be done.

Getting angry isn't the same as those meltdowns. It's directed, controlled. It isn't about yelling and hitting stuff, but about resistance - you say no to the things you don't want, and fight for the things you do want. The yelling and violence doesn't usually help matters and is a symptom of losing control. I struggle to get angry myself, for the same reasons - I'm terrified of losing control.

Quote:

I disagree on your "rock bottom comments" though... Love and compassion are what I need right now. Love and compassion are what allow me to feel confidence in myself. Love and compassion are what make life worth living. And I haven't truly felt either in years. My family doesn't have any to offer me, and my dream of establishing a family of my own has fallen flat on its face.

You don't understand. Love and compassion are indeed what you need - but not from other people. Not yet. It's like trying to feed an anorexic. Yes, they need to eat because they're starving to death, but they won't accept food from anyone else. It has to be their decision.

You need to love YOURSELF. This is very hard to do from where you are now, but it's essential. Until you love yourself, you won't accept it from anywhere else.

Quote:

That's a good start. You're good with computers - can you program? If not, do you think you could learn to? Certainly you've learnt to use some rather involved software.
The trick is to use what you know and adapt it to deal with others. Think of other people as software - given their general reliability, possibly from Microsoft. A lot of software has glitches that you need to learn how to work around. Interaction with people is not that far removed - it's a case of learning the commands, the capabilities, the little quirks, etc.

I learnt to interact with people through books and films and TV series. I've always had a good memory for TV programmes that interest me, so while I can't even remember the characters in Eastenders I can remember whole chunks of scripts from Red Dwarf. I used the dialogue in these sources as a point of reference, using phrases and expressions from things I'd seen and read.

It was, to start with, pretty awful. But that was okay. It was more interaction than I'd achieved before, and people already thought I was odd, so if I completely misjudged it and baffled someone, I wasn't really losing anything. Over time I refined and added to my store of phrases and concepts, and my conversations got better. I picked up jokes and innuendo, and eventually learned when to use them (and, more importantly, when not to).

Like learning anything, you'll get it wrong a lot. Don't beat yourself up over that. This is where embracing failure is the thing to do - failing is good, because not failing means not even trying.

MXH
TomCat
Phoenix

Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 12488
Location: Here i stand and face the rain

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:16 am Post subject:

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

You could be a great guy if you let yourself. So could MXH, I'm pretty sure, though I've less to go on there. But all the loving kindness in the world isn't going to change you.

So now youre covertly claiming that im a terrible guy? Really dude, youre not helping your cause by being a dick to those you try to "help" by saying what theyve heard, tried and failed at before.

Thom_Fuleri
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Mar 08, 2010
Posts: 802
Location: Leicestershire, UK

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject:

MXH wrote:

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

You could be a great guy if you let yourself. So could MXH, I'm pretty sure, though I've less to go on there. But all the loving kindness in the world isn't going to change you.

So now you're covertly claiming that im a terrible guy? Really dude, you're not helping your cause by being a dick to those you try to "help" by saying what they've heard, tried and failed at before.

I don't think you're a terrible guy. I just know Toady a little better through these boards than you, that's all. But I do get the impression that Toady feels he's a failure in himself and that you're angry at everyone else. It's much easier to assume everything is someone else's fault and deny responsibility, but then nothing ever changes.

Space
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Apr 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 2256

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject:

good post. Fear is a killer!

MXH
TomCat
Phoenix

Joined: Jul 29, 2010
Age: 22
Posts: 12488
Location: Here i stand and face the rain

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject:

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

MXH wrote:

Thom_Fuleri wrote:

You could be a great guy if you let yourself. So could MXH, I'm pretty sure, though I've less to go on there. But all the loving kindness in the world isn't going to change you.

So now you're covertly claiming that im a terrible guy? Really dude, you're not helping your cause by being a dick to those you try to "help" by saying what they've heard, tried and failed at before.

And if you had ever paid attention to any of my posts I am all about the self hate. So next time read up before talking crap about someone.

Space
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: Apr 03, 2006
Age: 29
Posts: 2256

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject:

I think a lot of people here (including myself) could benefit from some kind of brain-reprogramming or rewiring for lack of a better term. A lot of the fear and self-loathing I've experienced and seen expressed borders on the pathological. An AS person needs to find positive people in the real world (off the internet) that will encourage them and be a positive influence so that their lives can improve. It's easy to read an article about fear, feel better for a moment, then regress back to how you felt initially in a short period of time. It's a long process to change, and I think a lack of family/social supports that encourage the AS person to change and overcome their problems is a larger barrier. The fear and feelings of desperation are symptoms of this great problem I believe.

The-Raven
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: May 01, 2011
Posts: 762

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject:

Space wrote:

I think a lot of people here (including myself) could benefit from some kind of brain-reprogramming or rewiring for lack of a better term.

A lot of the fear and self-loathing I've experienced and seen expressed borders on the pathological. An AS person needs to find positive people in the real world (off the internet) that will encourage them and be a positive influence so that their lives can improve. It's easy to read an article about fear, feel better for a moment, then regress back to how you felt initially in a short period of time. It's a long process to change, and I think a lack of family/social supports that encourage the AS person to change and overcome their problems is a larger barrier. The fear and feelings of desperation are symptoms of this great problem I believe.

your so right, this is what i find completely.

I read a good 'self help' book and feel great, then I talk to my mum and feel like a piece of crap again. My family is really really critical and Ive not been able to find a friend who likes me. All the people i meet criticize me and dont like me or dont accept me as I am. This makes it very hard to like myself or feel good as its like fighting against a tide trying to wash me out to sea.

Im thinking about seeing a NLP hypnotherapist who has opened near me to 'rewire' my thinking and make me feel better about who I am.

What i really need is a positive nice friend who will say nice things to me, I wish they could be rented.

machf
Deinonychus

Joined: Jan 02, 2007
Posts: 312
Location: Lima, Peru

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject:

The-Raven wrote:

What i really need is a positive nice friend who will say nice things to me, I wish they could be rented.

Hmmm... that's not a bad idea. Some time ago, I read someone started a "rent-a-girlfriend" company, for a certain amount, you'd get someone to pose on Facebook as your g/f for some time. Maybe someone should start a similar business...

AScomposer13413
Complacent Composer
Phoenix

Joined: Feb 02, 2012
Posts: 2048
Location: Canada

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject:

machf wrote:

The-Raven wrote:

What i really need is a positive nice friend who will say nice things to me, I wish they could be rented.

There's a business for that sort of thing??? O_O

hyperlexian
loves the man who typed too much and ran outta spa
Forum Moderator

Joined: Jul 22, 2010
Age: 41
Posts: 21969
Location: with bucephalus

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject:

i don't really get how a person would be more confident if they had to pay someone to pose as a girlfriend. _________________ on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp5043493.html#5043493

The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Phoenix

Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9348
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject:

The-Raven wrote:

What i really need is a positive nice friend who will say nice things to me, I wish they could be rented.

You can rent me, send me a pm.

The-Raven
Phoenix
Phoenix

Joined: May 01, 2011
Posts: 762

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

The-Raven wrote:

What i really need is a positive nice friend who will say nice things to me, I wish they could be rented.

You can rent me, send me a pm.

wow, you mean you can be nice if people pay you Shocked

The_Face_of_Boo
A savage
Phoenix

Joined: Jun 17, 2010
Age: 31
Posts: 9348
Location: Beirut ,Lebanon

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject:

hyperlexian wrote:

i don't really get how a person would be more confident if they had to pay someone to pose as a girlfriend.

Well, here's a funny thing I've noticed.

There was that girl in the gym who was so stuck up that she wouldn't hi me back even if she bumps into me. i had her twin sister as friend on my fb (and she's way nicer) whom she always talked to me casually without any complication (online and in real) , of course i didn't try to add the mean twin and didn't want to.

But in the same day i posted a photo of me with my two female friends, she sent me a friend request O_O. I was like "Whoa? What? that one never even said a hi to me"

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:19 pm; edited 2 times in total