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ruveyn
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23 Mar 2012, 12:14 pm

slave wrote:
I know that I am a slave. Are you?


1. Who or What is your owner?

2. You were born free (we all were born free) When did you become a slave?

ruveyn



slave
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23 Mar 2012, 3:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:
slave wrote:
I know that I am a slave. Are you?


1. Who or What is your owner?

2. You were born free (we all were born free) When did you become a slave?

ruveyn


Pls read or re-read my signature line as it add pertinent information to my previous comments.

1. I am owned by the Masters who have control over the global financial system. I accept my status as the rejection of my status would be futile.

2. My parents were slaves and so when I was born, I too became a slave. They were also born slaves, though they are unaware of that reality.

Thank you for your answer to my question. I hope my reply is helpful. If it is not, feel free to ask for further clarification.



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23 Mar 2012, 3:44 pm

Feralucce wrote:
slave wrote:
I know that I am a slave. Are you?


I cannot help but feel that this was a trollish post.


It was not my intention to make you uncomfortable with my question. Kindly disregard same. The question was asked to facilitate an opportunity for the reader to ponder

whether or not they are slaves like me or whether they believe that they are free.



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23 Mar 2012, 4:47 pm

You are not a slave, peon would be a better word.

If you were a slave, you would be working a lot harder, have a lot less, and likely be receiving routine beatings.


As far as my thoughts on slavery goes, it's part of human nature. It sucks, but it happens. I doubt it will ever be totally wiped out.


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Feralucce
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23 Mar 2012, 6:17 pm

slave wrote:
It was not my intention to make you uncomfortable with my question. Kindly disregard same. The question was asked to facilitate an opportunity for the reader to ponder

whether or not they are slaves like me or whether they believe that they are free.


I was not made uncomfortable in the slightest. A statement like that, if honest, is very thought provoking... if it is spouted simply to elicit an irrational and emotional response, is trolling...

I do not feel that I am a slave. There is always a choice... even when people state "I have no choice."- there is a choice. You may feel that the consequences of your choice are too steep, but there is a choice.

Even the slaves of US history had a choice... run or work... the consequences were more than they were willing to pay (The chances of being caught and killed).


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ruveyn
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25 Mar 2012, 11:57 am

slave wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
slave wrote:
I know that I am a slave. Are you?


1. Who or What is your owner?

2. You were born free (we all were born free) When did you become a slave?

ruveyn


Pls read or re-read my signature line as it add pertinent information to my previous comments.

1. I am owned by the Masters who have control over the global financial system. I accept my status as the rejection of my status would be futile.



No one has a bill of ownership over your body and you cannot be legally sold to anyone.

You exaggerate and you claim is absurd. You think, perhaps, there is a world wide conspiracy of bankers? Perhaps you are right, but that in no way makes anyone your owner.

ruveyn



BuyerBeware
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25 Mar 2012, 12:34 pm

You know, actually, living in modern America, I wonder about that.

I mean, we are not bought and sold (outright) and we are seldom beaten (physically), but...

...what happens if you step too far out of line?? It's not pretty, is it???

I also thought a lot, reading the article, about the number of times I have been openly and explicitly told that I am lesser because there is something "wrong" with me, that I am stupid, that I should be grateful I am permitted to serve someone else, that because of my condition I cannot expect the same things out of life that others do...

Sometimes by evil people, sometimes by self-serving "friends" and relatives, sometimes by people who were getting paid to HELP me, for Christsake. Said with sympathy and all good intentions.

It makes me wonder. Do human beings (or some of us, anyway) seek to create a slave class out of whatever material we can get to create one out of?? Are we that foul?? What's the deal?? Why??


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Feralucce
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25 Mar 2012, 12:48 pm

ruveyn wrote:
slave wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
slave wrote:
I know that I am a slave. Are you?


1. Who or What is your owner?

2. You were born free (we all were born free) When did you become a slave?

ruveyn


Pls read or re-read my signature line as it add pertinent information to my previous comments.

1. I am owned by the Masters who have control over the global financial system. I accept my status as the rejection of my status would be futile.



No one has a bill of ownership over your body and you cannot be legally sold to anyone.

You exaggerate and you claim is absurd. You think, perhaps, there is a world wide conspiracy of bankers? Perhaps you are right, but that in no way makes anyone your owner.

ruveyn


Your assumptions are incorrect.

How do you know no bill of sale exists? I can write you a bill of sale for everything I own... legally...

The laws on slavery state "Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

A person can sell themselves into servitude voluntarily in the us... which is a point made by a couple libertarians...

BUT... you are assuming that the individual in question is in the united states....


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OliveOilMom
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25 Mar 2012, 12:52 pm

Declension wrote:
Slavery is a good issue to troll libertarians with. Libertarians claim that you own your own body, and therefore that you should be allowed to sell yourself into bondage.


Well, there used to be indentured servitude, which sometimes worked out well for both sides.

Not trying to start an argument at all, but just rather asking. I've never heard that from them. What's that about? Do they really say that you should be able to sell yourself into slavery, or are you being metaphorical? In a way I could see that being logical at first, but after thinking about it longer, it's not. By selling yourself into slavery you are giving up all rights to yourself which I'm presuming they also believe that everyone has inherantly. That we are all born with complete and total final say about ourselves, and that is simply the natural order of things. However, by selling ourselves then we violate that idea completely because if we naturally have total right over ourselves then the mere exchange of money shouldn't be able to remove that right.


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Feralucce
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25 Mar 2012, 1:25 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Declension wrote:
Slavery is a good issue to troll libertarians with. Libertarians claim that you own your own body, and therefore that you should be allowed to sell yourself into bondage.


Well, there used to be indentured servitude, which sometimes worked out well for both sides.

Not trying to start an argument at all, but just rather asking. I've never heard that from them. What's that about? Do they really say that you should be able to sell yourself into slavery, or are you being metaphorical? In a way I could see that being logical at first, but after thinking about it longer, it's not. By selling yourself into slavery you are giving up all rights to yourself which I'm presuming they also believe that everyone has inherantly. That we are all born with complete and total final say about ourselves, and that is simply the natural order of things. However, by selling ourselves then we violate that idea completely because if we naturally have total right over ourselves then the mere exchange of money shouldn't be able to remove that right.


Provided my Mr xXx
http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block134.html

http://www.walterblock.com/


But couldn't some argue that, by denying someone the ability to do that very thing, YOU are impinging on that very right.


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OliveOilMom
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25 Mar 2012, 5:27 pm

Feralucce wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
Declension wrote:
Slavery is a good issue to troll libertarians with. Libertarians claim that you own your own body, and therefore that you should be allowed to sell yourself into bondage.


Well, there used to be indentured servitude, which sometimes worked out well for both sides.

Not trying to start an argument at all, but just rather asking. I've never heard that from them. What's that about? Do they really say that you should be able to sell yourself into slavery, or are you being metaphorical? In a way I could see that being logical at first, but after thinking about it longer, it's not. By selling yourself into slavery you are giving up all rights to yourself which I'm presuming they also believe that everyone has inherantly. That we are all born with complete and total final say about ourselves, and that is simply the natural order of things. However, by selling ourselves then we violate that idea completely because if we naturally have total right over ourselves then the mere exchange of money shouldn't be able to remove that right.


Provided my Mr xXx
http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block134.html

http://www.walterblock.com/


But couldn't some argue that, by denying someone the ability to do that very thing, YOU are impinging on that very right.


I can't imagine wanting to do that, but to each their own.

The computer is being slow today so I got tired of waiting for the articles to load so I didn't read them. I'm not being lazy.

Now, there are some people into some types of kink who like a master/slave relationship. Some will write up a contract and live it out, day to day. But, it's not actual slavery because it's mutually consensual and either could walk out on it at any time, legally.

Oh well.

I do think that our bodies are our own and if we choose to sell a kidney or sex that we should have that right. I can sell my hair, why can I not choose to sell a kidney? Bad ideas aren't illegal. I can take money to give someone a back rub or to cut their nasty toenails, but I can't take money to have sex with somebody in this country. Why? Some things just don't make sense to me.

As for selling yourself into slavery, I can't imagine a situation where I'd want to do that. If it's in the article, I apologize for not reading it.


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Feralucce
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25 Mar 2012, 7:04 pm

Well, that is what legal slavery is about... No matter what the politicians imply, people can walk out of it because of the willingness aspect engendered in american law... However, there can be breech of contract lawsuits...


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slave
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25 Mar 2012, 7:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:
slave wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
slave wrote:
I know that I am a slave. Are you?


1. Who or What is your owner?

2. You were born free (we all were born free) When did you become a slave?

ruveyn


Pls read or re-read my signature line as it add pertinent information to my previous comments.

1. I am owned by the Masters who have control over the global financial system. I accept my status as the rejection of my status would be futile.



No one has a bill of ownership over your body and you cannot be legally sold to anyone.

You exaggerate and you claim is absurd. You think, perhaps, there is a world wide conspiracy of bankers? Perhaps you are right, but that in no way makes anyone your owner.

ruveyn


Oh, come on ruveyn! Do I have to spell it out for you? :wink:

Look, I read your posts all over WP and I know that you are very intelligent, erudite and logical. It is obvious that like most of of us you have a high need to understand how 'things' really work. So look at the obvious.

Slavery is 100% about controlling the productivity of another human. To do so one must in some way control the human and be able to take away the results of their

productivity. My productivity is my labor(mental or physical or both). If someone can take part of or all of the results of my productivity away from me then I am a slave.

What happens if a person declines to pay taxes? After some written encouragement(read threats) to comply, nice men in uniforms will take you by force for you to receive

your punishment for defying your Masters. Try to run. They will find you. Try to hide. They will find you. They take money from you for living on your OWN land.

Does that feel free to you?

I know that I am a slave.



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26 Mar 2012, 9:32 am

In Mauritania they are squatters. The country is controlled by Tribes, who own all the land, so no tribe, you pay rent to someone.

From the article, they eat, live in tents, wear clothes, and maintain a fair standard of living compared to most of the Sahal. People are dying of hunger and thirst all across the region.

A lack of cash wages is not proof of slavery. It would also do no good because they cannot count, there are no stores, they are hundreds of miles out in the sand.

They are not only free, but unwanted. Once Blacks were enslaved, used in salt caravans, but that was over a thousand years ago.

To the south there is a river, the country on the other side is Black African, they do not want to go back. They do not have tribe, family, or even speak the language.

The western side is near barren, little water, no soil, and running goats is about the whole economy. The land is held by arab tribes, who also own the goats.

These people being called slaves are more like beggers, most are dark as night, so they were not the slaves of Arabs for a thousand years, they recently crossed the river from the south.

In a lower economy, they are like our Mexicans who just wandered in to California.

The writer of this article lied about why he was there, skipped over the social structure, economics, and is trying to create an issue.

White God, fixes Africa on six day visit. Calls for UN invasion.



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26 Mar 2012, 10:07 am

Inventor wrote:
In Mauritania they are squatters. The country is controlled by Tribes, who own all the land, so no tribe, you pay rent to someone.

From the article, they eat, live in tents, wear clothes, and maintain a fair standard of living compared to most of the Sahal. People are dying of hunger and thirst all across the region.

A lack of cash wages is not proof of slavery. It would also do no good because they cannot count, there are no stores, they are hundreds of miles out in the sand.

They are not only free, but unwanted. Once Blacks were enslaved, used in salt caravans, but that was over a thousand years ago.

To the south there is a river, the country on the other side is Black African, they do not want to go back. They do not have tribe, family, or even speak the language.

The western side is near barren, little water, no soil, and running goats is about the whole economy. The land is held by arab tribes, who also own the goats.

These people being called slaves are more like beggers, most are dark as night, so they were not the slaves of Arabs for a thousand years, they recently crossed the river from the south.

In a lower economy, they are like our Mexicans who just wandered in to California.

The writer of this article lied about why he was there, skipped over the social structure, economics, and is trying to create an issue.

White God, fixes Africa on six day visit. Calls for UN invasion.


I worked for shelter, food, water, basic needs and and a chance to learn organic farming. No cash changed hands...I was not a slave. I chose to live this way. Whether or not these ppl are slaves depends on whether they came into this arrangement forced or willingly.
But I agree they are more refugees than slaves.

Jojo


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ruveyn
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31 Mar 2012, 4:24 pm

Declension wrote:
Slavery is a good issue to troll libertarians with. Libertarians claim that you own your own body, and therefore that you should be allowed to sell yourself into bondage.


If the one's own body is indeed one's own property, then there should be no legal impediment to selling it. It is simple logic.

I don't know too many people who would sell themselves into perpetual bondage but if one wishes to do so, why prevent it?

ruveyn



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