bjtao
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 30, 2010
Posts: 449
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 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks. I know some people think because the child had a weapon (butter knife) the police did not over react. Any item can be deadly in the right hands. If the police department does not feel the officers over reacted by shooting the child in the head, they should release the details of the case and the statements from the officers involved. This particular police department has special training in dealing with Autistic people and how to use non-lethal force to subdue an agitated Autistic person, even if they are armed. I don't think a child with a butter knife (or even a butcher knife) is any match for two highly trained officers with guns. There were other options available to the police that would have provided a different outcome. Even if they had stopped with the one shot to the leg, the kid would not have been able to attack them and would still be alive. If the officers are indicted and they go to court, more details may come out that justify the police's use of deadly force, or maybe not. I don't know. I just think the family deserves their day in court. |
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bjtao
Velociraptor
Joined: Jun 30, 2010
Posts: 449
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you so much for that explanation. The fact is that there were other options. The police could have even stopped after they shot him in the leg - they didn't have to continue to shoot him in the head. They could have tasered him. They could have worked with him from outside the room or house until he calmed down.
Because of the area this happened in, race is being brought into play. If you know the Chicago land area, you know how bad the profiling and racism is within police departments and segments of the population. I don't like that people are bringing race into this, but the fact is that had this been a white autistic child, you bet it would have gotten nation-wide press coverage. I have no idea of the race of the officers. Whether any aspect of this case is related to race, it doesn't matter to me, I still feel the same way about the story, family and situation. Basically the police in our area do what they like. They are above the law. Look at Scott Peterson. How bout the cop that beat the woman at the bar on video? Or the one that hit someone while driving drunk...the list goes on. The police here are so corrupt.
Once this case is in court, more details could come out showing the police were justified, I don't know. I do think the family should get their day in court. |
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Phonic
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW!!!??
Joined: Apr 04, 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 1331
Location: The graveyard of discarded toy soldiers.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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This isn't very important now but; Why were the police even called? Arn't you only supposed to call the police in an emergency? Not because your kid is being a brat?
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'not only has he hacked his intellect away from his feelings, but he has smashed his feelings and his capacity for judgment into smithereens'. |
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Cornflake
Rattles when shaken
Joined: Oct 31, 2010
Posts: 30544
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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bjtao - please do not post the same thing into several forums.
I've copied the replies from identical threads you started in the Parents' Discussion and General Autism Discussion forums and removed those threads, leaving just this one.
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Giraffe: a ruminant with a view. |
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BuyerBeware
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 29, 2011
Age: 35
Posts: 1038
Location: PA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Do you ever wonder if maybe the cops seized the opportunity to shoot him because they were busy and frustrated and sick of being the solution to family problems??
Do you ever wonder how much of the nastiness in this world boils down to that? "You are an inconvenience and I'm sick of dealing with you. I'd shoot you if I could, but I can't, so I'm going to treat you like sh** and hope you either shut up, go away, or both."
I think a lot.
It makes me want to quit trying.
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I'm tired. I do not have sufficient strength remaining to persevere in the face of adversity. I accept myself as broken and conformity/compliance as the only acceptable existence. I give up.
What's on TV tonight?? |
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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2009
Age: 50
Posts: 4913
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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The police may have had the mentality of solve this once and for all, with vaguely thinking of bullying him, manhandling him, treating him in disrepectful fashion.
Then he pulls a knife and the police are then "justified" in shooting him.
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Again, just pitiful pre-flop play.
And poker players will immediately know what I mean by this. |
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willzzz
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: Oct 17, 2006
Posts: 51
Location: West of the Occident, East of the Orient
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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I signed it.
All I can think of is a "WTF!? perverted logic" caused this outcome. We can debate the psychology ALL we want but the outcome has already happened and there is no turning back unfortunately. 
I know people with AS have troubles with parents (we all do) but I think there may have been a race factor in this as someone who lightly knows Chicago, there is HUGE profiling there that its not even funny (as said by someone earlier). I can compare this to any other big city with an urban core.
Aspies UNITE! |
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Dreamslost
Blue Jay
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
Age: 60
Posts: 89
Location: Westminster, CO
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Even though aspies may not have meltdowns very much, we do have them and sadly i do not remember what i did in all of them for time periods and so i do all i can to avoid situations that caused the really bad ones but a haze is a good analogy, or literally seeing red for me. in some ways its just as scary to myself too. I will say its been many years since the ones i went ttally nuts as it were, fortunately was with friends though because did not know what problem with myself was, many did not stay friends long. In the process of dealing with myself i learned how to help others in same situation and what weapon they pick up is irrelavant most really are not dangerous as much as frustrated and the way i would deal with a boy like that is just talk, if he tried to attack i would either avoid or disarm, and more then likely it would not happen at all. i might dash to a bathroom to pee after though.. Bottom line is with aspie or autistic going in armed with taser or gun is wrong and unnecessary period and i think that police department needs re-education and made to see how wrong their actions were. I thik a good lesson for them is how english law enforcement works with no guns because some situations its better to keep the guns away and not a use guns
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The Truth is out there, it just may not be what you want or expect |
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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 27, 2009
Age: 50
Posts: 4913
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamslost wrote: | . . . i think that police department needs re-education and made to see how wrong their actions were. I thik a good lesson for them is how english law enforcement works with no guns because some situations its better to keep the guns away and not a use guns
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Excellent analogy. I think there's a lot to be learned from the old school English style of policing. And, there was no reason for the police to go down into the basement. They could have waited him out. As someone stated on a previous discussion, this could have been viewed as a hostage situation with him holding himself hostage, with all the respect that a hostage situation deserves. |
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Raefila
Emu Egg
Joined: Mar 23, 2012
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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After reading the article, the Police had obviously been called before and had obviously used the tazer on him before.
As much as I'd like to make this entirely the fault of the Police, I can't help but see their side, ANYONE comes at you with a knife (Note: Butterknife was not mentioned anywhere in that article) and slashes your arm. Now even an official person is going to default onto the stereotypically normal survival mechanisms, which usually involves bringing whatever force they can to ensure they survive, even if the attacker doesn't.
That said, I have that same feeling I get when the media reports on anything violent, that nobody actually knows what's happened and just tends to slant the facts based on their own stereotypes. |
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CrazyCatLord
Phoenix
Joined: Oct 25, 2011
Posts: 2177
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote: | The police went down into a basement where both they and Stephon were cornered. In poker terms, it was terrible pre-flop play.
Even if it's okay for the police officer to use deadly force to defend himself at the very last minute, he should not have let the situation escalate where he was in this situation. |
This. Even after the boy slashed the officer's arm, there would have been better ways to subdue a scrawny 15-year-old than shooting him in the head. Police officers should be capable of defending themselves against a knife attack without using deadly force. |
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sushi
Emu Egg
Joined: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| It's so sad how it came down to this. My heart goes out to him and his family <3 |
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Rainy
Snowy Owl
Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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It's hilarious how many misconceptions there are here that can be blamed on movies and video games.
First of all, no one who knows what they're doing with a firearm would use leg-shots as a non-lethal tactic. Don't shoot at anything you don't intend to destroy.
And secondly, a person trying to stab you with a knife is dangerous. Very dangerous. Maybe they could have done something different a little earlier, but the kid's fate was sealed after he lunged with the knife. |
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Howdy_Neighbor
Butterfly
Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| diniesaur wrote: | | WHAT?! It was a butter knife, for the gods' sakes! In what possible world is it okay for that officer to shoot him? |
I was wondering a similar thing, at least taser the person or use mace, sure, it's traumatic, but at least it won't likely kill the kid compared to a reflexive gunshot, which will likely hit the chest and kill.
If someone wants to complain about use of non-lethal, well seriously, that's self-defense, and at least it goes to show that the person wielding the non-lethal method wasn't trying to kill. |
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Howdy_Neighbor
Butterfly
Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| lelia wrote: | | I am so sorry, but a butter knife to the eye is no joke. A butter knife up the nose can kill. I am sorry about the kid, but we should all know that you cannot attack a policeman and expect to live. |
There's no doubt that a butter-knife can kill, as a matter of fact, even punching or kicking to the right place could kill you. But my main question is whether or not the officer at least had some non-lethal weapons like taser, stungun, or pepper spray. Sure it would hurt, but the big point that could be made is that at least getting tased isn't as likely to kill you as an attacker as say, a gunshot to the chest or head can. |
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