blauSamstag
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 06, 2011
Posts: 1880
|
 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: The other side of the Trayvon Martin story... |
 |
|
Consistent with the press release that states: "To date the Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the
evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case."
Really? |
|
| Back to top |
|
aghogday
KATiE MiA
Joined: Nov 26, 2010
Posts: 4745
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's highly unlikely that Zimmerman would have profiled, followed, approached and questioned a stranger in a neighborhood, seiged with crime, if he didn't think he could get away with doing it without being harmed. Apparently he felt like he had an advantage to allow him this authority.
His gun likely helped provide that illusion.
If the kid was a real criminal with a gun, and the events occurred as Zimmerman stated they did; it would likely be Zimmerman that would be the fatality not the kid.
Zimmerman elected himself as law enforcement; his gun and membership in a neighborhood watch was his personal form of a badge.
Neighborhood watches don't need to turn into legalized vigilante gangs. While it appears that the kid was able to hold his on in a physical fight with a larger individual. There was no evidence presented by an actual witness, that I have seen, of who actually started the physical altercation, beyond the words of Zimmerman.
Zimmerman exercised poor judgement, against the advice of professionally trained emergency personnel. That's not illegal, but maybe in the case of neighborhood watch activity, it should be.
It appears now that he may escape being charged and prosecuted based on the evidence of the individual that witnesssed part of the fight.
But, he won't escape the consequences of not following the advice of emergency personnel.
He took the law into his own hands against that advice and a young man died as a result of it; now he faces that same danger, in jail or out of jail, for years to come. No judge or jury is going to be able to prevent that from happening.
His picture isn't going away on the internet; his profile is more personal now, than a hoodie and dark skin, on a dark rainy night.
If nothing else, hopefully this will provide a lesson for someone not to make the same mistake.
Obama's sympathy comment was obviously heartfelt, for an individual that has teenage kids. Perhaps a bit unusual, but Obama's not a usual kind a guy.
The most the kid was guilty of was getting in a fist fight over someone questioning his right to be somewhere based on his appearance. That is a senseless tragedy.
Fighting is never an intelligent response to perceived harrassment, but it happens, particularly among teenage boys.
Obama attempted to provide assurance to those that were concerned that justice might not be served. That's not a riot maker, it's a riot breaker.
Not likely there is going to be riots, but it is likely that some are not going to be satisfied with the outcome of the investigation. More potential concern for the safety of Zimmerman, than a riot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12756
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: |
Then if Obama had a son, what would you expect him to look like? Stating the obvious doesn't necessarily make it a racial incident.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Figure'd you'd be along eventually.
| Quote: | | Then if Obama had a son, what would you expect him to look like? |
I don't have a clue but it seems (it IS) a bit goofy to publicly speculate on something like that.
| Quote: | | Stating the obvious doesn't necessarily make it a racial incident. |
With the civil rights comment that's where he's going with it. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. |
Yep, you know I'm irrepressible.
And as it seems a young black man in a hoodie and armed with only a bag of Skittles and a pop was shot by a fantasy prone individual playing policeman - after being told by the 911 operator not to pursue - at the very least, questions about the shooter's motivations are justifiable.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29311
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kraichgauer wrote: |
Yep, you know I'm irrepressible.
And as it seems a young black man in a hoodie and armed with only a bag of Skittles and a pop was shot by a fantasy prone individual playing policeman - after being told by the 911 operator not to pursue - at the very least, questions about the shooter's motivations are justifiable.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Zimmerman was NOT forbidden to pursue. He was told that he did not have to pursue. A big difference.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12756
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ruveyn wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: |
Yep, you know I'm irrepressible.
And as it seems a young black man in a hoodie and armed with only a bag of Skittles and a pop was shot by a fantasy prone individual playing policeman - after being told by the 911 operator not to pursue - at the very least, questions about the shooter's motivations are justifiable.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Zimmerman was NOT forbidden to pursue. He was told that he did not have to pursue. A big difference.
ruveyn |
I would have taken that as a strong request that shouldn't be disregarded. Then again, I'm not the sort to prowl the streets of my neighborhood packing heat, and looking for trouble.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
|
| Back to top |
|
ruveyn
Phoenix
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Age: 76
Posts: 29311
Location: New Jersey
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kraichgauer wrote: |
I would have taken that as a strong request that shouldn't be disregarded. Then again, I'm not the sort to prowl the streets of my neighborhood packing heat, and looking for trouble.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Zimmerman was a "hot dog". He never should have been enlisted in the neighborhood watch. He confused his ideas with reality. And now some kid is dead. The kid was probably no angel but he surely did not deserve to be shot dead.
ruveyn |
|
| Back to top |
|
Raptor
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 09, 2007
Posts: 4481
Location: Southeast U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kraichgauer wrote: | | Raptor wrote: | | Kraichgauer wrote: |
Then if Obama had a son, what would you expect him to look like? Stating the obvious doesn't necessarily make it a racial incident.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Figure'd you'd be along eventually.
| Quote: | | Then if Obama had a son, what would you expect him to look like? |
I don't have a clue but it seems (it IS) a bit goofy to publicly speculate on something like that.
| Quote: | | Stating the obvious doesn't necessarily make it a racial incident. |
With the civil rights comment that's where he's going with it. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. |
Yep, you know I'm irrepressible.
And as it seems a young black man in a hoodie and armed with only a bag of Skittles and a pop was shot by a fantasy prone individual playing policeman - after being told by the 911 operator not to pursue - at the very least, questions about the shooter's motivations are justifiable.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
Irrepressible? with nearly four times as many posts as I have with less than half the time I'd say you need some hobbies or something but whatever....
I hadn't read that Zimmerman was fantasy prone but I guess in your eyes and certainly those of a few others any gun owner has fantasy issues.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
abacacus
Rock 'N Roll Outlaw
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Age: 21
Posts: 3316
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If I recall correctly Bill is a bit of a gun nut himself. I doubt he views all gun guys as fantasy prone.
_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Raptor
Phoenix
Joined: Mar 09, 2007
Posts: 4481
Location: Southeast U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | If I recall correctly Bill is a bit of a gun nut himself. |
That would be a surprise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12756
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| abacacus wrote: | | If I recall correctly Bill is a bit of a gun nut himself. I doubt he views all gun guys as fantasy prone. |
Actually, as for being a gun nutter, I think you have me mistaken for someone else. I have gone target practicing a few times, which was very fun, but I don't even own a gun, and I don't have deep concerns about the issue, one way or the other.
Concerning fantasy prone individuals; I never thought all gun owners - or even most - had such personality problems. I stated Zimmerman was fantasy prone because he had wanted to be a cop all his life. When he couldn't because he had assaulted a police officer a few years back, he decided he would play cop. One time, he had followed a shop lifter for blocks after alerting the police. Another time, he had accosted someone for parking in a handicapped space after calling the police, which never resulted in the "offender's" arrest. And this was before he had even joined the neighborhood watch, during which time he had pretended he was a cop by carrying a gun as he obsessively wandered the streets.
As for Raptor's response to me needing a hobby - that's just mean.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
|
| Back to top |
|
Lord_Gareth
Velociraptor
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 440
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Raptor wrote: | | Quote: | | If I recall correctly Bill is a bit of a gun nut himself. |
That would be a surprise. |
You mean as surprising as finding a post of yours not rife with intellectual fallacies and unwarranted personal attacks?
_________________
Et in Arcadia ego. - "Even in Arcadia, there am I." |
|
| Back to top |
|
MDD123
Phoenix
Joined: May 07, 2009
Age: 29
Posts: 1145
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Kraichgauer wrote: | | abacacus wrote: | | If I recall correctly Bill is a bit of a gun nut himself. I doubt he views all gun guys as fantasy prone. |
Actually, as for being a gun nutter, I think you have me mistaken for someone else. I have gone target practicing a few times, which was very fun, but I don't even own a gun, and I don't have deep concerns about the issue, one way or the other.
Concerning fantasy prone individuals; I never thought all gun owners - or even most - had such personality problems. I stated Zimmerman was fantasy prone because he had wanted to be a cop all his life. When he couldn't because he had assaulted a police officer a few years back, he decided he would play cop. One time, he had followed a shop lifter for blocks after alerting the police. Another time, he had accosted someone for parking in a handicapped space after calling the police, which never resulted in the "offender's" arrest. And this was before he had even joined the neighborhood watch, during which time he had pretended he was a cop by carrying a gun as he obsessively wandered the streets.
As for Raptor's response to me needing a hobby - that's just mean.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
QFT |
|
| Back to top |
|
LKL
Phoenix
Joined: Jul 22, 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 5689
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zimmerman originally said that Martin jumped him from behind with no warning; now that a witness (from the phone call) has come forward saying that the two exchanged words before any physical conflict (presumably meaning that they were facing each other), the story has changed and Trayvon was 'reaching for the gun.' |
|
| Back to top |
|
Kraichgauer
Phoenix
Joined: Apr 13, 2010
Age: 47
Posts: 12756
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LKL wrote: | | Zimmerman originally said that Martin jumped him from behind with no warning; now that a witness (from the phone call) has come forward saying that the two exchanged words before any physical conflict (presumably meaning that they were facing each other), the story has changed and Trayvon was 'reaching for the gun.' |
When a story changes like that, I have to think neither is the truth.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer |
|
| Back to top |
|
simon_says
Phoenix
Joined: Jan 21, 2011
Posts: 2443
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Of course he was reaching for the gun. Just like he was "suspiciously" walking around, "reaching into his waistband" "on drugs" and "something was wrong with him". From the beginning Zimmerman knew everything that he had to say to make himself sound justified. And that's the only version left to hear.
From the other perspective we know that Martin was talking to his girlfriend with some kind of ear phone. That could easily look unusual to someone determined to see the unusual. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
